Didn't the writer of the quran know...........?
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No matter whether some people live on the poles or not, they still live on the earth, the earth revolves around itself every day. I do not think people at the poles are ignorant of that fact or count days following whether the sun sets wholly or not. Do you have any proof that if there is no sunset they don't count a day? Days still exist. Do they count no day at all when it is night for severall calendar days following or it is daytime? Do people at the poles stop sleeiping at night because there is no total darkness or stop waking up because it is dark?
The Qur'an does not disregard common sense, quite the opposite is says rather often to use our reasoning to go through life. Things that are said having in mind humanity will not fit every single person necessarily all the time. We have minds to get the gist of whatever we are told and adapt it. And to do so is perfectly coranic and of the fact that we are reasoning creatures and capable of jusdging matters on common sense is in the knowledge ou our Creator, and it is to us that He addresses itslef, no to some dumb robot which follows ritual commands.
If somebody on the poles wants to benefit from the blessings of ramadan or salat sure it is doable without much mindwringing. If they do not want to, no need either to bring up knowledge or lack of it of the Creator.
I am sure, it is a theoretical problem and not a real one. Just follow their days, they days of the people who live on the poles.
Salaam
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Well if the day is many months long, then of course the traditional salah will be that few also ,
peace.Salaam
Only if they had only a few meals the day which, according to you is six month long.sun
You started this thread giving the impression that the "writer" was unaware of the geographic poles situation, but as the Qur'an has dealt with that situation you have turned this thread into a debate about salah, just to see if the "Author" was ignorant of what is now revealed to you via google.
As I understand when reading all the ayah on Salah we find much flexibility, so much so that the Hadithist counting it believed there were originally 50 Salah.
Peace -
No matter whether some people live on the poles or not, they still live on the earth, the earth revolves around itself every day. I do not think people at the poles are ignorant of that fact or count days following whether the sun sets wholly or not. Do you have any proof that if there is no sunset they don't count a day? Days still exist. Do they count no day at all when it is night for severall calendar days following or it is daytime? Do people at the poles stop sleeiping at night because there is no total darkness or stop waking up because it is dark?
The Qur'an does not disregard common sense, quite the opposite is says rather often to use our reasoning to go through life. Things that are said having in mind humanity will not fit every single person necessarily all the time. We have minds to get the gist of whatever we are told and adapt it. And to do so is perfectly coranic and of the fact that we are reasoning creatures and capable of jusdging matters on common sense is in the knowledge ou our Creator, and it is to us that He addresses itslef, no to some dumb robot which follows ritual commands.
If somebody on the poles wants to benefit from the blessings of ramadan or salat sure it is doable without much mindwringing. If they do not want to, no need either to bring up knowledge or lack of it of the Creator.
I am sure, it is a theoretical problem and not a real one. Just follow their days, they days of the people who live on the poles.
Salaam
If you don't care for the commands of the quran fast from dawn to senset and other similer things and follow your own understanding, what is wrong with that. But you are not then following the command of the quran , if you are please show me how, if you like.
Thanks.
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Salaam
Only if they had only a few meals the day which, according to you is six month long.sunThe day as i showed , not according to me but according to science is weeks or even months long in some countries;
http//moonsighting.com/6monthdays.html
I didn't make this table and neither all the other websites to which you have the links to, come on.
You started this thread giving the impression that the "writer" was unaware of the geographic poles situation, but as the Qur'an has dealt with that situation you have turned this thread into a debate about salah, just to see if the "Author" was ignorant of what is now revealed to you via google.
As I understand when reading all the ayah on Salah we find much flexibility, so much so that the Hadithist counting it believed there were originally 50 Salah.
PeaceI didn't start the thread to show the writer was unaware of this , but to show there could be an element of mistranslation as things applying in most countries cannot be applied in some others.
I knew though as you agreed for ramadhan previosly that salah case will be hard to stomach as it all becomes too much for anybody.
peace
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The day as i showed , not according to me but according to science is weeks or even months long in some countries;
I didn't make this table and neither all the other websites to which you have the links to, come on.
I didn't start the thread to show the writer was unaware of this , but to show there could be an element of mistranslation as things applying in most countries cannot be applied in some others.
peace
Salaam
As I said if they only eat few meals in six month long day than no problem few Salah too.I knew though as you agreed for ramadhan previosly that salah case will be hard to stomach as it all becomes too much for anybody.
I am please to know that Ramdan issue is not a problem so I think you need to start new thread Salah according to the geographic poles situation. hmm
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Salaam
As I said if they only eat few meals in six month long day than no problem few Salah too.I am please to know that Ramdan issue is not a problem so I think you need to start new thread Salah according to the geographic poles situation. hmmI think you are missing the point.
Everything which is commanded to be done with repect to the day ,dawn,night,sunset have problems in those countries where the day is weeks or months long.
You have brought up the definition of a day, if to you it is anything other then between the dawn and dusk please prove your point.
The meals have nothing to do with dawn or dusk or even a day in the quran if some how they have please show us a ayah.
peace
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Do the people in those countries sleep? Then the day and night is defined by their habits?
There is no problem with the commands of the Creator. There is a problem with our reasoning.
Peace -
Do the people in those countries sleep? Then the day and night is defined by their habits?
There is no problem with the commands of the Creator. There is a problem with our reasoning.
PeaceOur reasoning is okay , if we start to believe , the quran has been tempered with and it is mistranslated.
Br. Ayman and layth showed me that a long time ago and they where 100% right on this point.
The day and nights in those countries are now defined by thier habits as they cannot for obvious reasons use the dawn and dusk as they may be weeks or months apart, but the day in the quran i think has a Dawn and dusk and fasts and salah are connected with them. As long as we are talking about the translations currently available.
Although if i might say so, i don't believe that dwn and dusk is what the words actualy mean in the quan, but that may be for another time to come.
peace
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Peace 357.
Keep checking with your Creator.
I personally only trust my Lord to teach ( show) me HIS word.
Also if our reasoning is fine, we would not be here trying to redeem ourselves back to the Creator.
Peace
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If you don't care for the commands of the quran fast from dawn to senset and other similer things and follow your own understanding, what is wrong with that. But you are not then following the command of the quran , if you are please show me how, if you like.
Thanks.
You ask questions you answer you own questions. And I do not have a problem with following the Qur'an either for rmaadan or salaa, the question is that I am not on a pole. You should find some pole people to answer your questions. I do not think they have any problem following the Qur'an, and I doubt that you have tried following the Qur'an while living on the pole.
You create the problem, you solve it.
I don't have any problem and I do not think there is a problem.
Salaam
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You ask questions you answer you own questions. And I do not have a problem with following the Qur'an either for rmaadan or salaa, the question is that I am not on a pole. You should find some pole people to answer your questions. I do not think they have any problem following the Qur'an, and I doubt that you have tried following the Qur'an while living on the pole.
You create the problem, you solve it.
I don't have any problem and I do not think there is a problem.
Salaam
Where on earth the night or day is 6 months long?
Actually, except for poles, no where is the 6 months long day and 6 months long night. Look in the table, that even at 70 miles away from the pole, there are 10 days when sun rises and sets. Also note that up to 65 degrees latitude the sun rises and sets daily.
Latitude Approximate Location Miles from North Pole Sun Remains below horizon Sun Remains above horizon Sun Rises and Sets Fasting Time for Muslims 4000N Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 3500 mi ----- ----- 365 days 11-16 hrs 6500N Fairbanks, Alaska 1750 mi ----- ----- 365 days 17-23 hrs 6630N Arctic Circle 1575 mi Dec17-Dec 26 (10 days) May 29-Jul 13 (47 days) 308 days Special Case 7000N Dead Horse, Alaska 1400 mi Nov 25-Jan 16 (53 days) May 17-Jul 27 (72 days) 240 days Special Case 8000N Franz Josef Land, North Russia 700 mi Oct 21-Feb 19 (122 days) Apr 14-Aug 19 (128 days) 115 days Special Case 8400N North-most, Greenland 420 mi Oct 10-Mar 2 (144 days) Apr 2-Sep 9 (161 days) 60 days Special Case 8900N 00 Longitude, No land mass 70 mi Sep 27-Mar 15 (170 days) Mar 20-Sep 21 (185 days) 10 days Special Case 8945N 00 Longitude, N. Pole, No land 20 mi Sep 26-Mar 17 (173 days) Mar 18-Sep 23 (190 days) 2 daysAll them countries don't make up the north pole, No sir. It is the Arctic circle.
http//moonsighting.com/6monthdays.html
Okay no more quistions for you hypno
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Where on earth the night or day is 6 months long?
Actually, except for poles, no where is the 6 months long day and 6 months long night. Look in the table, that even at 70 miles away from the pole, there are 10 days when sun rises and sets. Also note that up to 65 degrees latitude the sun rises and sets daily.
Latitude Approximate Location Miles from North Pole Sun Remains below horizon Sun Remains above horizon Sun Rises and Sets Fasting Time for Muslims 4000N Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 3500 mi ----- ----- 365 days 11-16 hrs 6500N Fairbanks, Alaska 1750 mi ----- ----- 365 days 17-23 hrs 6630N Arctic Circle 1575 mi Dec17-Dec 26 (10 days) May 29-Jul 13 (47 days) 308 days Special Case 7000N Dead Horse, Alaska 1400 mi Nov 25-Jan 16 (53 days) May 17-Jul 27 (72 days) 240 days Special Case 8000N Franz Josef Land, North Russia 700 mi Oct 21-Feb 19 (122 days) Apr 14-Aug 19 (128 days) 115 days Special Case 8400N North-most, Greenland 420 mi Oct 10-Mar 2 (144 days) Apr 2-Sep 9 (161 days) 60 days Special Case 8900N 00 Longitude, No land mass 70 mi Sep 27-Mar 15 (170 days) Mar 20-Sep 21 (185 days) 10 days Special Case 8945N 00 Longitude, N. Pole, No land 20 mi Sep 26-Mar 17 (173 days) Mar 18-Sep 23 (190 days) 2 daysAll them countries don't make up the north pole, No sir. It is the Arctic circle.
http//moonsighting.com/6monthdays.html
Okay no more quistions for you hypno
sure, Sir or Madam, I did not ask any questions from you. Nor did I require an from you or anybody else disertation on astronomy.
YOU asked a question, I answered it. I did not ask for any answer to any question.
It looks to me as if you had come here fishing with a question you thought should trap us, believers in the Qur'an. Seems as if we do not feel at all trapped and you got derpived of your toy. Sorry for it, but don't worry for us or for any believer in the artic pole, the equator or the poles or the moon, we can do all right.
Salaam.
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sure, Sir or Madam, I did not ask any questions from you. Nor did I require an from you or anybody else disertation on astronomy.
YOU asked a question, I answered it. I did not ask for any answer to any question.
It looks to me as if you had come here fishing with a question you thought should trap us, believers in the Qur'an. Seems as if we do not feel at all trapped and you got derpived of your toy. Sorry for it, but don't worry for us or for any believer in the artic pole, the equator or the poles or the moon, we can do all right.
Salaam.
Please don't take it as an offence , but a hindu believes he is a believer and so do the rest of religious people.
Calling oneself a beliver doesn't make them no way superior to anyone else - in my book.
And if you arn't entrapped i don't know what is!
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Please let us show patience.
I will try and answer the " day " question for " 357"
GOD does not burden anyone. If your day is six months and you cannot fast. See if you can feed some that are needy.
If you cannot distinguish the time for prayer. Remember your lord whenever you can.
If you believe, the main part is " submission and total loyalty to your Creator". GOD has made HIS religion easy and not hard.
God knows your innermost thoughts. HE is the only judge. I am not your guardian.
Peace -
Of course there are some of us , whose religion is basically-
If you believe, the main part is " submission and total loyalty to your Creator". GOD has made HIS religion easy and not hard.
God knows your innermost thoughts. HE is the only judge.
but not everybody here.
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Excellent initial question and argumentation @357
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reminds me of a story.... a question was asked to the rabbi similar to something like this and the rabbi answered a good jew would not live in a place where he can't practice his tradition! rotfl
i know people who don't get up in the morning to eat and open the fast instead will skip eating in the morning and break their fast at dusk. the jews fast 25 hrs for yom kippur. so you can do a fast for 24 hours - if you prefer. if it is difficult to fast, then don't. the author of the Koran, i am sure knew. and i am sure he knew we would question. he gave us the brain and the koran as a guidance.
the koran doesn't say to fast entire month. and also makes it clear the purpose of fasting. i plan on setting aside a day this month to reflect, to meditate, to 'connect'. it will be on the weekend when i am not working and will not be out running errands or doing household chores like cooking and cleaning. will be turning off my cell phone. it will be day of praying with fasting. probably won't get up before sunrise (as i am not really a morning person) and my last meal will be the night before. if i start feeling like a headache coming on or hypoglycemic or start feeling sick then will drink something (making it modified fasting) till dusk to have solid food but focusing on the spiritual aspect of my life journey. regardless of whether or not, i can keep my fast for one day - you can still feed the needy. that's perfectly ok. there are so many kids who go to bed hungry and go through the day without much to eat year around. and here we are talking about how difficult it is to fast for 12 hrs or 24 hrs. all i can say is i am grateful that i am fortunate enough to have the basic essentials.
so to answer your question, yes... the author of the Koran (referring to God) knew. he knows more than you and me. the problem is that we don't use our brains.
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reminds me of a story.... a question was asked to the rabbi similar to something like this and the rabbi answered a good jew would not live in a place where he can't practice his tradition! rotfl
i know people who don't get up in the morning to eat and open the fast instead will skip eating in the morning and break their fast at dusk. the jews fast 25 hrs for yom kippur. so you can do a fast for 24 hours - if you prefer. if it is difficult to fast, then don't. the author of the Koran, i am sure knew. and i am sure he knew we would question. he gave us the brain and the koran as a guidance.
the koran doesn't say to fast entire month. and also makes it clear the purpose of fasting. i plan on setting aside a day this month to reflect, to meditate, to 'connect'. it will be on the weekend when i am not working and will not be out running errands or doing household chores like cooking and cleaning. will be turning off my cell phone. it will be day of praying with fasting. probably won't get up before sunrise (as i am not really a morning person) and my last meal will be the night before. if i start feeling like a headache coming on or hypoglycemic or start feeling sick then will drink something (making it modified fasting) till dusk to have solid food but focusing on the spiritual aspect of my life journey. regardless of whether or not, i can keep my fast for one day - you can still feed the needy. that's perfectly ok. there are so many kids who go to bed hungry and go through the day without much to eat year around. and here we are talking about how difficult it is to fast for 12 hrs or 24 hrs. all i can say is i am grateful that i am fortunate enough to have the basic essentials.
so to answer your question, yes... the author of the Koran (referring to God) knew. he knows more than you and me. the problem is that we don't use our brains.
What you plan to do is similar to Shabat, but it is every week, and you can eat.
The true spirit of Shabat is to feel and know that God is running life without us.
But all the commandments and instructions God already gave in Torah.
(and Qur'an is not from god)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604076.0