WHAT DOES AYAT 10:15 MEAN...?
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brothers cathedral, idolfree
1015 And when Our clear ayats are recited to them, those who hope not for Our meeting say Bring a Quran other than this or change it. Say It does not beseem me that I should change it of myself; I follow naught but what is revealed to me; surely I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the punishment of a mighty day.
Quran is for the present and ayat is also for today's life and for tomorrow's Guidance never to Guide you into the past The meaning of the ayat is
As you read the BOOK and keep reflecting the ayats in it, the clear Signs of it are revealed to you and you verify the precision and genuinenes of the revelation and its easy adaptability in your life. Having satisfied with this and being a witness yourself to the truth you come to the fallen people, say, a sunni or a shia, to recite that Allah had Bestowed upon you in clear terms for them to follow, they listen to you not. They ask you to change the revealing of the ayats to suit their following. Then what you have to say to the sunni or shia is the rest of the ayat Say It does not beseem me that I should change it of myself; I follow naught but what is revealed to me; surely I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the punishment of a mighty day.
drfazl
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PEACE DR. FAZL
Yes, I think similarly to you. Quran, from the word, qarara, I believe, means "reading"/"that which is recited", hence, anything else which is taken as guidance, other than Allah's Quran, could then be referred to as a "quran other than this". Both the so-called sunnah of the prophet and the hadiths of Bukhari and Co. would come under the heading of..."qurans other than this".
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Peace be upon you PB,
I am glad that we are making ground on the word "quran".
Since we are aware that the word "quran" simpy means reading, we can agree that there are MANY MANY MANY MANY readings on this earth.
NOW, here is the crucial test that the God gives us to determine if it the reading one is looking at is from the God, or if it is not.
(482) ...and if (it) were from at other than The God, they would have found in it much difference/disagreement (contradictions).
So this means that for a reading to be considered to be from the God, it cannot contain contradictions. So if a person brought you a reading that was only 7 words long and read "There is no god but the God", who would that be from? The God or someone else?
Please answer.
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PEACE IDOL
I am glad that we are making ground on the word "quran". Since we are aware that the word "quran" simpy means reading, we can agree that there are MANY MANY MANY MANY readings on this earth. NOW, here is the crucial test that the God gives us to determine if it the reading one is looking at is from the God, or if it is not.
(482) ...and if (it) were from at other than The God, they would have found in it much difference/disagreement (contradictions).
So this means that for a reading to be considered to be from the God, it cannot contain contradictions. So if a person brought you a reading that was only 7 words long and read "There is no god but the God", who would that be from? The God or someone else?
Please answer.
It would have to be from Allah, to wit
318 Allah bears witness that there is no god but He, and (so do) the angels and those possessed of knowledge, maintaining His creation with justice; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise.
I'm not certain of your point/where you are going with this question?
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Peace be upon you,
exactly, from the God.
My point is that the God's reading(quran) is not restricted to this one material book that people have TITLED "Quran". You just agreed with your answer.
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Peace be upon you,
exactly, from the God.
My point is that the God's reading(quran) is not restricted to this one material book that people have TITLED "Quran". You just agreed with your answer.
LOL!! what other reading, do you know of, which is free of doubt, and, according to your own statement, is free of contradictions
(482) ...and if (it) were from at other than The God, they would have found in it much difference/disagreement (contradictions).
So this means that for a reading to be considered to be from the God, it cannot contain contradictions.
I don't know what you are trying to prove, Idol. Given the fact that, nothing else on this earth, that is, relative to our spiritual guidance/salvation of our souls, is free of doubt and contradiction other than Al-Quran. So, what exactly is your point? ?
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Salaam Priest,
All truth permeats from the One and Only, thus any reading that is truth is from God. No truth can be contradictory, wherever you happen to find it.
Joe
Well, that sounds all beautiful and stuff, however, I'm what asking you an Idol, and now you is, other than Allah's Quran, as revealed the Messenger, what other quran can be said to be contradiction/doubt free? I don't want theoretics/suppositions, but a concerte/tangible example. Remember, the question is around "quran" , that is, a "reading/that which is to be recited"/body of work/a knowldege unto itself, as is the case with Allah's Quran given to The Messenger. Am i understood?
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idolfree,
Peace be upon you,
My point is that the God's reading(quran) is not restricted to this one material book that people have TITLED "Quran". .
Agree, but with a little correction
My point is (----------------------------------------------------------) that the material book that people have TITLED "Quran", is The Book but not QURAN. While Allah Himself says THIS IS THE BOOK, why the people maintain that it is Quran. Is it not transgression? Read this so as to know where Quran is! Quran is only for those who ponder.
002.002
This is the Book; in it is guidance ( Quran ) sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;drfazl
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PEACE DR. FAZL
"Quran", is The Book but not QURAN. While Allah Himself says THIS IS THE BOOK, why the people maintain that it is Quran. Is it not transgression? Read this so as to know where Quran is! Quran is only for those who ponder.
Very esoteric, do you think you could elaborate?
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PB,
PEACE DR. FAZL
"Quran", is The Book but not QURAN. While Allah Himself says THIS IS THE BOOK, why the people maintain that it is Quran. Is it not transgression? Read this so as to know where Quran is! Quran is only for those who ponder.
Very esoteric, do you think you could elaborate?
Brother,
What is esoteric? Unseen Right ?
002.003
Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;What do you think about this ayat? Does it sound the whole Quran is to understand the esoteric nature of Allah, the UNSEEN ? If you wish to abandon or shift yourself from the knowedge worldly - to, the unseen Wisdom esoteric, I can go further.
drfazl
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Peace be upon you PB,
Well, that sounds all beautiful and stuff, however, I'm what asking you an Idol, and now you is, other than Allah's Quran, as revealed the Messenger, what other quran can be said to be contradiction/doubt free? I don't want theoretics/suppositions, but a concerte/tangible example. Remember, the question is around "quran" , that is, a "reading/that which is to be recited"/body of work/a knowldege unto itself, as is the case with Allah's Quran given to The Messenger. Am i understood?
You are understood perfectly. Basically you are trying to CHANGE the meaning of the word "quran" which is "reading" into "body of work, knowledge unto itself, etc etc".
NO, the word "quran" means reading. A single sentence can be a "reading", do you realize this?
And as the Doctor well said, this is a journey into the UNSEEN, so you should start controlling your arrogance and start having faith as the faithful.
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PEACE IDOL
You are understood perfectly. Basically you are trying to CHANGE the meaning of the word "quran" which is "reading" into "body of work, knowledge unto itself, etc etc".
NO, the word "quran" means reading. A single sentence can be a "reading", do you realize this?
And as the Doctor well said, this is a journey into the UNSEEN, so you should start controlling your arrogance and start having faith as the faithful.
Hmmm...if anyone's arrogance needs the assistance of..."the controlloing thoughts"...it is you, bro. Make duaa on this.
Anyway, "quran", means "reading" i.e. script. Now, don't you think it just a tad naive and reductive, to define reading as a single sentance? Does Allah refer to His sentances as "readings" or "ayats"? A reading, is something that is comprehensive in its scope, hence, Al-Quran, the sum total of its ayats, ...is a "reading". I mean one could say..."I bring you a single sentance from the reading", that makes sense to me, but to define a single sentance as a reading, well, that is a huge stretch for me. When 1015 was revealed, do you think the rejectors were talking about a single sentance which they wanted done a way with or something much more comprehensive? I mean I could be wrong, so, let's discuss it.
Would you please give a concrete example of a "single sentance reading" from Allah?
Let me ask you a question, brother, why/where is it that, you like to come up with these Art Bellian/paranormal kinds of theories? I mean, don't get me wrong, they are interesting, but seem very far-fetched at times, just curious.
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Peace be upon you PB,
Hmmm...if anyone's arrogance needs the assistance of..."the controlloing thoughts"...it is you, bro. Make duaa on this.
Anyway, "quran", means "reading" i.e. script. Now, don't you think it just a tad naive and reductive, to define reading as a single sentance?
Can you READ a sentence? In fact, please tell me excatly how long a writing has to be for it to be considered a "reading".
Does Allah refer to His sentances as "readings" or "ayats"?
I do not recall the God ever addressing "sentences" because the verse numbers are man made. The God only refers to SIGNS(ayaat).
A reading, is something that is comprehensive in its scope, hence, Al-Quran, the sum total of its ayats, ...is a "reading".
Where does this definition come from? Where does "comprehensive in its scope" come from? ANYTHING that can be read is a reading.
I mean one could say..."I bring you a single sentance from the reading", that makes sense to me, but to define a single sentance as a reading, well, that is a huge stretch for me.
Everything is a stretch when it is a new understanding, but if you think about it for a while, no one can say HOW MANY words must be used before something turns into a "reading".
When 1015 was revealed, do you think the rejectors were talking about a single sentance which they wanted done a way with or something much more comprehensive? I mean I could be wrong, so, let's discuss it.
I thought we were already discussing it. I believe that the people described in 1015 are responding to single pieces of information thatcome one after the other. It could be single sentences OR a group of sentences.
Would you please give a concrete example of a "single sentance reading" from Allah?
There is no god but the God.
Here's another;
If you put your bare hand in fire it will burn you.
Let me ask you a question, brother, why/where is it that, you like to come up with these Art Bellian/paranormal kinds of theories? I mean, don't get me wrong, they are interesting, but seem very far-fetched at times, just curious.
Above you stated that you wanted to discuss because you could be wrong, but here we see your real thougts manifest, you hate to be wrong, and that will be your downfall if you don't humble yourself.
This is a very simple topic, but you accuse me of "paranormal theories" because I see as sentence as being a reading(something which is read)?
Peace to you.
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PEACE IDOL
I do not recall the God ever addressing "sentences" because the verse numbers are man made. The God only refers to SIGNS(ayaat).
Well, this is my point. Allah, doesn't refer to His individual sentances, and of course Al-Quran is comprised of sentances, as "readings", but "ayats", however, He does refer to the sum total of these ayats as...Al-Quran, The Reading. Listen, you may be correct, however, this is not my understanding and I hope others will weight-in on this topic, one way or the other.
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Peace be upon you PB,
Well, this is my point. Allah, doesn't refer to His individual sentances, and of course Al-Quran is comprised of sentances, as "readings", but "ayats", however, He does refer to the sum total of these ayats as...Al-Quran, The Reading. Listen, you may be correct, however, this is not my understanding and I hope others will weight-in on this topic, one way or the other.
Well thank you for at least admitting the possibility that my position can be correct.
I do hope others will give thier opinions, but until them, think on what I have stated in my previous post.
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Peace Idolfree,
There is nothing to add as you did explain your views clearly and I praise you for your humility. In my opinion, you were also on top of your arguments in the thread "Iblis could not be an Angel..."
Wassallam
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PEACE MOZMAHE
Peace Idolfree,
In my opinion, you were also on top of your arguments in the thread "Iblis could not be an Angel..."
Wassallam
Interesting. Perhaps you saw something which I did not. Where, precisely, was he on top his arguement on the thread "WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL". If you would, please place your finding on that thread so that I may see it, thanks.
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Peace be upon you Mozmahe,
There is nothing to add as you did explain your views clearly and I praise you for your humility. In my opinion, you were also on top of your arguments in the thread "Iblis could not be an Angel..."
Thank you for the kind and encouraging words. I do think I could have been a little more humble however, I think my sarcasm got the best of me on many occasions. I am working on it.
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Salaam Priest,
Well, that sounds all beautiful and stuff, however, I'm what asking you an Idol, and now you is, other than Allah's Quran, as revealed the Messenger, what other quran can be said to be contradiction/doubt free? I don't want theoretics/suppositions, but a concerte/tangible example. Remember, the question is around "quran" , that is, a "reading/that which is to be recited"/body of work/a knowldege unto itself, as is the case with Allah's Quran given to The Messenger. Am i understood?
I'm not sure where we are to account for 'reading' or 'quran' to mean a large or fairly modest volume of work material in writing. I've read stories that are fairly uncontradictory, though they may not necessarily be truthful. I've seen dictionaries with true meanings that are not contradictory to the language. There are statements of fact and other things that present the truth in a simple manner.
Take care.
Joe