Nikah with Atheists/Agnostics/Irreligious.
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Salam,
I noticed that the Quran forbids choosing Polytheists as spouses, while saying nothing about irreligious people. Irreligious people are not Kafir by definition, but Daleen (misguided/lost people), as they weren't given any Hidaya to deny it. Remember that the prophet didn't believe in angels, the hereafter, judgement day, etc. That doesn't mean the prophet was a Kafir, it means he was a Dal as mentioned in the Quran.
Thoughts?
irreligious people ARE THE MUSLIMS BY DEFINIYION
All messengers were fought because they were irreligious, and didn't believe in religion
sounni and shiaa are religious, therefore , by definition they are called AHL AL KITAB , and not simply muslimsAl Kitab is one book , Allah's words, The bible isn't Al kitab, it is just like HADITHS, written by men
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Peace be with you as well,
If the person disbelieves in God's Books, angels, After life etc.... then he/she would be a disbeliever.And loxbox13, The bible is not like Hadiths Period
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Every human that was born into this world was irreligious..
They never refused to be born, let alone pick and choose on the circumstance or the environment to be born..
They just trust their Rabb... and there you go... his/her first 'shout' within this world..http//www.wonderquest.com/2007-04-02-human-newborn.jpg
Until.... the toxic of religion polluted their mind and heart...
Let's keep our next generation away from the absurdity of religion..
It's the least we can do..Salam / Peace
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This has been an interesting topic I wanted to discuss soon so this might be a good place to do so.
Atheists by traditionalist muslims are always grouped with the "kaffir" who are another set we can't marry.
Problem is that the word Kaffir is misused I believe. Kufr simply means "To cover" which is what farmers did when they covered seed with dirt in the ground. Thus this word was used to refer to "covering the truth". A Kaffir is someone who does kufr.
The biggest example of a kaffir is Iblis. Iblis out of pride refused to bow to Adam, which while he sinned there could have repented and moved on but instead decided to become a kaffir as the book stated. This is where Iblis went throughout the ages of humanity and mislead them by covering the truth and saying doing certain things was okay and not sinful, worshipping all these false Gods is not sinful. Basically he turned what is halal into haram and what is haram into halal and those who believed this was true as opposed to what the revelations had told them had committed kufr there. Course these people are those those who believed and then ended up disbelieving like that. So thats a different story. Basically Iblis was a clear believer but ended up becoming a kaffir thus showing that kaffir cannot mean atheist only.
Kaffirs are also quite common amongst humans. Many try to cover the truth too like Iblis. Those who believe and also wanna cover the truth from believers for reasons of hating God or whatever. People can even be kaffirs to themselves by falsely covering the truth to themselves by out of pride or whatever pretending the truth isn't there or if its false. This is apostasy, where one has disbelieved after believing.
As for other religions, we hear that Christians, Jews, atheists and Pagans were also called kaffirs by the traditionalists. This can be both true and false and also where it gets very confusing. and not 100% sure, so this section is mostly theory. If none of the are covering the truth to others, they aren't kaffirs, course some argue that simply promoting their own beliefs are real and the Quran as fake makes them kaffir, but I think that they have to believe first in order to start covering the truth as Jews and Christians aren't called as such in the book afteall and are allowed to marry them considering those are their beliefs in all its honesty. While if they are starting to believe the Quran but decide to refuse belief for whatever reason and then start covering the truth to the public or themselves, that wuold make them kaffir.
This again was a theory here as I am unsure if kaffirs refers to those who simply believe first and then disbeliever and cover the truth to them and/or others, or does that also include those who never believed in the first place too (as they are simply ignorant at that point).
Basically if it points true that a kaffir refers to those who never believed in the first place, then an atheist who is not a n apostate wouldn't be a problem to marry. Course there is also a chance I may simply be wrong on what kufr means but this is how i've seen people also explain kufr on this world.
Regardless if wrong, may God forgive me.
Peace
Irreligious are not forbidden to be married too. Course I am defining irreligious by secular
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Salam,
I noticed that the Quran forbids choosing Polytheists as spouses, while saying nothing about irreligious people. Irreligious people are not Kafir by definition, but Daleen (misguided/lost people), as they weren't given any Hidaya to deny it. Remember that the prophet didn't believe in angels, the hereafter, judgement day, etc. That doesn't mean the prophet was a Kafir, it means he was a Dal as mentioned in the Quran.
Thoughts?
I think the faith criteria used in the Quran is faith in God and an after life. Faith in angels and prophets etc can only be attained through scriptures. I am not sure what an atheist means. He must believe in something like Darwinism etc. Any one has to have an explanation to his existence and its purpose. But I can not see how a believer can marry someone who does not believe in God ann an afterlife. Practically speaking it can create huge problems since how a believer sees the world is different than how an atheist or a non believer sees the world. A believer sees a purpose to his existence and the events in his life. He sees a time when he will be held accountable to what he does in this life. These are not easy things to have faith on and if your partner is not a believer, it will only make it harder. Now we know that Noah's wife betrayed him and we know that Pharoah's wife was righteous. So it can be done but its not something that Quran will recomend to someone if he has the choice in the matter. We never know how our spouse will end up, but at least we can adjust our intention. Religion here is not important, but faith is. As Quranist we do not really care much about religions anyways, but faith is a core concept any Quranist lives by. You need a spouse who supports you in that and strengthen you and not weakens it and makes you doubt it. Faith is a hard journey.
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Problem is that the word Kaffir is misused I believe. Kufr simply means "To cover" which is what farmers did when they covered seed with dirt in the ground. Thus this word was used to refer to "covering the truth". A Kaffir is someone who does kufr.
Correct.. kufr is some who is trying to hide / cover the truth..
Truth doesn't need any protection... lies does...
And the way the 'true kuffars' kuffuring the truth are through lies, propaganda, terror, threat, murder, torture etc..
As it's commonly seen up until today...Irreligious are not forbidden to be married too. Course I am defining irreligious by secular
Quran, Gospel, Tao Te Ching etc.. are not books about religion.. it's a book about wisdom..
Jesus, Abraham, Muhammad are not religious people.. infact they're deviant to their own society's religion and paid quite a 'high price' for it..
Jesus, Abraham, Muhammad didn't invent any religion...Salam / Peace
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Salaam,
Really, the terms "religious" and "irreligious" need clarification because different people will have different idea on what the terms mean.
I will assume that you are referring to someone without a belief system, or not caring about the existence of God (not necessarily rejecting). Please note I am not talking about someone who is not practicing rituals.
Anyway, personally I will not go for someone who does not care or does not seek to find God. I would like to think that marriage is about two people's enriching each other's spirituality, which is possible mostly when both believe in the existence of God.
That being said, there is nothing wrong in trying to get someone more intact with their spirituality. But if efforts have been made, and the person is not touched with the idea of spirituality, then no, I will not take it further.
A believing man is for a believing woman.
So the least I can hope from my partner, is believing in God and translating that belief into action.
Just my two cents.
Salaam.
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The reason you are prohibited from marrying cheaters & polytheists is because they invite to the hell (2221).
So does this person themselves invite to the fire? Do they use their reason or do they simply not care about the hereafter?
It might be better to remember 'kafir' translates in essence to anti-God. By the time a person is old enough to consent to marriage they are more than old enough to understand the nature of God. So where you might want to start is to ask them if they believe God can be the truth.
Some people have never believed and they will never even hold God to be plausible either - they have their mind set. So even though this person is a dal they are also a kafir.
You have to understand their modus operandi first and foremost. The true measure is how liable are they to hold themselves to quranic standards of self - do they stay away from the major evils? There's an order of preference set out in the quran with strict believers first and anti-believers last. Plus an atheist is more a kafir/mushrik than anything else.At any rate it's best to keep them at arms length if you are not sure. Above all remember that this life is purely a trial. The main purpose of life now is to prove your allegiance to God, enjoying life comes secondary. If your S.O. has their allegiance to satan then this can never work out well. Would you sacrifice a life of perfection, comfort and pleasure which actually is made for enjoyment, for a few decades here? That's the gamble presented.
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The reason you are prohibited from marrying cheaters & polytheists is because they invite to the hell (2221).
So does this person themselves invite to the fire? Do they use their reason or do they simply not care about the hereafter?
It might be better to remember 'kafir' translates in essence to anti-God. By the time a person is old enough to consent to marriage they are more than old enough to understand the nature of God. So where you might want to start is to ask them if they believe God can be the truth.
Some people have never believed and they will never even hold God to be plausible either - they have their mind set. So even though this person is a dal they are also a kafir.
You have to understand their modus operandi first and foremost. The true measure is how liable are they to hold themselves to quranic standards of self - do they stay away from the major evils? There's an order of preference set out in the quran with strict believers first and anti-believers last. Plus an atheist is more a kafir/mushrik than anything else.At any rate it's best to keep them at arms length if you are not sure. Above all remember that this life is purely a trial. The main purpose of life now is to prove your allegiance to God, enjoying life comes secondary. If your S.O. has their allegiance to satan then this can never work out well. Would you sacrifice a life of perfection, comfort and pleasure which actually is made for enjoyment, for a few decades here? That's the gamble presented.
Right. And you don't want someone who will always question your beliefs and outlook. Life is filled with trials and tribulations and you want a support system and not someone who will try to make you doubt. The problem is lack of faith often is accompanied by personality disorders. Things like envy, selfishness, greed and betrayal usually follow lack of faith and often leads lack of faith. You do not want that in your life.
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It might be better to remember 'kafir' translates in essence to anti-God.
Nope it doesn't..
"Kufr" translate to "Those who hides / covers" / "Those try to cover / hide the truth"..
The anti of Kufr will be "Those who reveals" / "Those who try to reveal the truth"..The Kufr in Muhammad/Jesus/Abraham times are those who are 'deeply religious'... Among them are high-priests, priests and their (blind) follower... Jesus was convicted to death by "Council of Ulema" and so does Abraham.. both were convicted to death on "Blasphemy Case". Muhammad perhaps received a fair share of death threat from those religious folks..
The Kufr benefited from the lies spread within society and try to do anything include terror, torture and murder to hide the truth and maintain the status quo.. Although they used the terminology like "To maintain the unity of the ummah" or "To protect the believers from shaytanic influence", "To stay true to the path and traditions as set out by our holy/glorious ancestors" etc.. etc..
Principle #1 Truth doesn't need any protection, it just need to be told..
And remember; the "Kufr" on Jesus and John case is a monotheist as well...
If you did an objective comparison on how the religious behave from those times and now.. you'll find not much of a difference..
By the time a person is old enough to consent to marriage they are more than old enough to understand the nature of God. So where you might want to start is to ask them if they believe God can be the truth.
On contrary I believe those with the purest understanding of the one true God are those who are just being born into this world..
You have to understand their modus operandi first and foremost. The true measure is how liable are they to hold themselves to quranic standards of self - do they stay away from the major evils?
The modus operandi of religious people or those who tries to cover the truth is to maintain the 'existing condition' (status quo). Because they gain benefit ($$$,Power and Influence) from the existing condition..
Plus an atheist is more a kafir/mushrik than anything else.
If God is defined as a "Sky God" looking down below upon earth.. I myself is an atheist of such god..
I'm also an Atheist of Marduk, Latta, Uzza or other odd deities....Salam / Peace