Halal.. the real definition?
-
Anyways in regards to the topic. 53 has clearly mentioned that what we can't eat
"53 Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful."
Some like to add more things such methods of killing or things you can't eat but they are wrong as verse 645 points out
"Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God." Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful." (6145)
Thus any additional rules some of these traditionalists like to add like lobster, crab, shot with a gun or arrow, putting to sleeping, electricution are not mentioned therefore the meat you buy in the west is not forbidden at all. Course one thing I say to watch out for is veil as I heard a story from my friend (not sure if its true though) that they make veil die of itself by keeping it in a cage. Course that needs more research if true or not.
Course then you got those who say 6121 states you can't eat meat that doesn't have the name of God on it at slaughter. That is also false. 6121 mentions nothing of slaughter nor meat. It simply states not to eat something(any type of food) which doesn't have Gods named mentioned it. some will argue there that it indeed requires it at slaughter otherwise its forbidden but as 6145 mentions it, there are no additional rueles other than what is mentioned. The closest thing would be the opposite that is mentioned which states not to eat that which the name of God has been invoked on but never states if the name is not mentioned on that its not okay. Thus simply stating "Bismillah" before eating it covers 6121.
Therefore eating a Big Mac, or KFC or a meaty sub at subway is in no ways forbidden.
The whoke "halal" market is in my opinion a scam. Coming out of hadiths and many other things and likely made up for the purpose of scamming muslims to buy their expensive meat. Hell they've even to lengths of trying to state Christian and Jewish meat is forbidden when the Quran has specifically mentioned them as lawful.
Funny enough we have hadiths where the Prophet was asked if they can eat a meat they were unsure was slaughtered with the name of God on it and he simply said to say Bismillah and eat it.
-
I also thought I should add this about the part of 53 that talks about blood.
After reading this topic I looked more things up myself and noticed much inconsistencies.
The traditionalists say that the when it states we can't eat blood, that would meat we would have to completely drain it out of meat. This in itself is wrong as no matter how much they try to drain it, there will ALWAYS be some blood left in it. I've seen the so called "halal" meat that is sold to have blood spilling off it. Does this mean we simply can't eat meat? clearly not and 6145 gives us a clear definition of what it means by not eating blood
"Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me to be unlawful for any eater to eat except that it be already dead, or running blood, or the meat of pig - for it is foul - or what is a wickedness, dedicated to other than God." But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful." (6145)
While 53 simply said blood, this verse had running blood instead, thus further defining what God means in its consumption. Thus we can't eat that raw blood. What we must do is simply eat food that is cooked to "well done" where the pink is gone and all is brown and thus the blood is burnt away. Some may argue blood is still there, while it may be true but it isn't flowing nor is it harmful to us as raw blood is harmful to humans. This also means no rare, blue rare, medium rare or any sort of pink meat or steak P no cups of blood, no "Tigers Blood" XDDD (oh Charlie Sheen...) Thus whenever I go to a Korean Grill House and am given meat to grill, I always cook mine till it is slightly burned (probably out of being paranoid so I won't be sick but now also due to the blood factor.
-
I also thought I should add this about the part of 53 that talks about blood.
After reading this topic I looked more things up myself and noticed much inconsistencies.
The traditionalists say that the when it states we can't eat blood, that would meat we would have to completely drain it out of meat. This in itself is wrong as no matter how much they try to drain it, there will ALWAYS be some blood left in it. I've seen the so called "halal" meat that is sold to have blood spilling off it. Does this mean we simply can't eat meat? clearly not and 6145 gives us a clear definition of what it means by not eating blood
"Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me to be unlawful for any eater to eat except that it be already dead, or running blood, or the meat of pig - for it is foul - or what is a wickedness, dedicated to other than God." But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful." (6145)
While 53 simply said blood, this verse had running blood instead, thus further defining what God means in its consumption. Thus we can't eat that raw blood. What we must do is simply eat food that is cooked to "well done" where the pink is gone and all is brown and thus the blood is burnt away. Some may argue blood is still there, while it may be true but it isn't flowing nor is it harmful to us as raw blood is harmful to humans. This also means no rare, blue rare, medium rare or any sort of pink meat or steak P no cups of blood, no "Tigers Blood" XDDD (oh Charlie Sheen...) Thus whenever I go to a Korean Grill House and am given meat to grill, I always cook mine till it is slightly burned (probably out of being paranoid so I won't be sick but now also due to the blood factor.
Selam Aryan Warrior... Does it really say "running blood" in arabic? Sorry I'm too lazy/tired (its 4.30am here and I've been reading about hajj and my brain has melted). I have always wondered when I buy "halal" meat why there is blood S .... but if thats the case that would make sense. Plus I've always thought that it means to remember God whilst eating the food... I say it on everything even if i'm just having potato waffles n beans! But i was thinking, how do you know if the food sold on the market is not killed in the ways which are forbidden to us? Just a thought.. I don't think I found anything in the Quran that said if we don't know just say God's name and eat it like it says in the hadith (which i don't believe.. i refute ALL hadiths) D.
Peace Aryan Warrior ) peace
-
Selam Aryan Warrior... Does it really say "running blood" in arabic? Sorry I'm too lazy/tired (its 4.30am here and I've been reading about hajj and my brain has melted). I have always wondered when I buy "halal" meat why there is blood S .... but if thats the case that would make sense. Plus I've always thought that it means to remember God whilst eating the food... I say it on everything even if i'm just having potato waffles n beans! But i was thinking, how do you know if the food sold on the market is not killed in the ways which are forbidden to us? Just a thought.. I don't think I found anything in the Quran that said if we don't know just say God's name and eat it like it says in the hadith (which i don't believe.. i refute ALL hadiths) .
Peace Aryan Warrior ) peace
Peace Sushi )
Yes 6145 does indeed say "running blood" in arabic. I had to double check that one as 53 and some of the other ones simply said blood until 6145 better explained it. When meat is fully cooked, no blood flows anymore, its at that point dead black blood that is neither harmful nor barely the same. Thus why when even the so called "halal" meat will still have blood irregardlessly.And yes you are correct that we are to say the name of God on on anything we eat. I do that on even a cookie XD So you do it right )
As for super market meat the things that would prevent us are stated in 53 which clarifies we can't have
-Already dead meat (died of itself) This is illegal to sell in most places in the west, so you don't have to worry.
-Blood (that is running as 6145 states) Cook the meat fully and blood is gone
-Pork Simply don't eat it XD
-Sacrificed to other than God Food in the west is machine slaughtered and done without a name being on it.
-That which has been strangled According to animal slaughter that is done in the west, strangulation isn't one of them, especially as it consumes too much time and machine slaughter is FAR faster.
-Beaten to death Again same this as above that its too time consuming to take a bat or whatever object and beat them repeatedly over the head till dead and not prescribed for much of the western companies to do that.
-That which has fallen from a height Again same as the above two as its not prescribed upon slaughter houses as well as being too time consuming and not having such space to drop animals to die.
-That which has been gored Slaughter houses either grow animals themselves and slaughter them or the rancher does it for them. Therefore they won't go out to grab an animal that that has been horned by another. As well this is a VERY rare occurrence in general.
-That which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue Again due to how animals are raised and slaughtered this doesn't happen, as well I believe they send over animals that were somehow hunted by a wolf or something as the animal has to go to the slaughter house alive.
-Slaughtered on alters Slaughter houses are not alters XD
-What you divide by the arrows of chance No gamblign of food happens in slaugher houses and whatnot.Course there is the very off chance something may occur, but that we don't know and even amongst the so called halal food it may happen and has happened before where food not slaughtered due to the traditionalist way was simply stamped with a halal sticker and sold as such. God is merciful and forgiving and you would have done it unknowingly and he surely won't burden us if some guy screwed around like that and sold food that shouldn't be served.
Course if you find out the food is indeed done in one of the ways we can't eat, then don't consume it.
I don't trust hadiths either but I mean even though the traditionalist try to argue that you MUST eat only meat slaughtered while Gods name is mentioned, there is a hadith which ironically goes against their belief and supports up further on how you can say the name of God before you eat it. Regardless say the name of God before you eat anything and all is fine ) Again remember God is merciful and said the religion isn't suppose to burden us and so considering how these things don't happen normally nowadays, it is quite safe and easy to eat food from most places whether it be a five star restaurant or Mcdonalds )
Peace my fellow Pokemon fan
-
Salam Goodlogic
Course then you got those who say 6121 states you can't eat meat that doesn't have the name of God on it at slaughter. That is also false. 6121 mentions nothing of slaughter nor meat. It simply states not to eat something(any type of food) which doesn't have Gods named mentioned it. some will argue there that it indeed requires it at slaughter otherwise its forbidden but as 6145 mentions it, there are no additional rueles other than what is mentioned. The closest thing would be the opposite that is mentioned which states not to eat that which the name of God has been invoked on but never states if the name is not mentioned on that its not okay. Thus simply stating "Bismillah" before eating it covers 6121.
yes, 6.121 mentions nothing of slaughter nor meat, because it is a general statement to say Bismillah
we should pronounce the name of God over every meal. This is correct. But God says in the context of meat to kill. (not sacrifice) thakaytum this process should be done in the name of God, as HE gives us the gift of animals and their meat . Just as I thank God when I harvest.
I do not study the secondary sources, but only God's word.
peace -
Salam Goodlogicyes, 6.121 mentions nothing of slaughter nor meat, because it is a general statement to say Bismillah
we should pronounce the name of God over every meal. This is correct. But God says in the context of meat to kill. (not sacrifice) thakaytum this process should be done in the name of God, as HE gives us the gift of animals and their meat . Just as I thank God when I harvest.
I do not study the secondary sources, but only God's word.
peaceWell no doubt that the slaughterer has to say Gods name, but I was just talking about it from the eaters perspecrive and how all thy gave to do is say Gods name over the food to furfil 6121's condition. Thus for me who really never plans to kill animal for food (unless Hajj requires it, but unsure if so) I have nothing to worry of there.
-
Selam everyone n thanks for your posts ),
To be honest, I think that technically the 'halal' labelled meat isn't ACTUALLY halal until you are about to eat it and bless the food with God's name, a bit like how you see christians say a prayer thanking God for the food they have received before they eat. A lot of the time people just dive in without any consideration.... I've done this only a few times when I've been like a starved beast.. but always have said God's name (when this has happened I'd usually realise midway and then say it and apologize to God xD) but I feel I am quite content on this matter ).
Thanks alot to Aryan Warrior and the rest ) (and yeah I still like Pokemon don't associate myself with it anymore of course since I've just turned 20 LMAO but it was cool xD)
Peace ) peace
-
Selam everyone n thanks for your posts ,
To be honest, I think that technically the 'halal' labelled meat isn't ACTUALLY halal until you are about to eat it and bless the food with God's name, a bit like how you see christians say a prayer thanking God for the food they have received before they eat. A lot of the time people just dive in without any consideration.... I've done this only a few times when I've been like a starved beast.. but always have said God's name (when this has happened I'd usually realise midway and then say it and apologize to God xD) but I feel I am quite content on this matter .
Thanks alot to Aryan Warrior and the rest (and yeah I still like Pokemon don't associate myself with it anymore of course since I've just turned 20 LMAO but it was cool xD)
Peace peace
Peace Sushi,
Well it is actually halal as 6121 simply states that the name of God has to be mentioned on it, whcih someone already has at the point if the laws were followed properly, but of course considering it might not have been or we have meat or any food that doesn't have that stated on their, we say it anyways What I like about 6121 is that the "mentioned" part is in third person thus someone can say it for someone else, so I can say it for my parents or my whole table of believers (though I only have one really good friend who's a muslim XD) but regardless yes that is the one thing I like is that its like Christianity with saying grace, which I assume might have been their interpretation to a verse equivalent of this, while many traditionalists took it far stricter.
Also I was on a christian forum where I saw them talking about the blood issue as well as its also restricted for them. They agreed that it likely refers to flowing blood and that ones its fully cooked its okay too, and seems its common amongst their clergy too as they listed an example of how one ordered a steak but med-rare and sent it back to be well done as it was bloody.
And lol why don't you associate yourself with such an awesome series XD I am 23 and male and I still love it and play the games to death lol (I still hate the anime though) Anyways your welcome
-
Peace Sushi,
Well it is actually halal as 6121 simply states that the name of God has to be mentioned on it, whcih someone already has at the point if the laws were followed properly, but of course considering it might not have been or we have meat or any food that doesn't have that stated on their, we say it anyways What I like about 6121 is that the "mentioned" part is in third person thus someone can say it for someone else, so I can say it for my parents or my whole table of believers (though I only have one really good friend who's a muslim XD) but regardless yes that is the one thing I like is that its like Christianity with saying grace, which I assume might have been their interpretation to a verse equivalent of this, while many traditionalists took it far stricter.
Also I was on a christian forum where I saw them talking about the blood issue as well as its also restricted for them. They agreed that it likely refers to flowing blood and that ones its fully cooked its okay too, and seems its common amongst their clergy too as they listed an example of how one ordered a steak but med-rare and sent it back to be well done as it was bloody.
And lol why don't you associate yourself with such an awesome series XD I am 23 and male and I still love it and play the games to death lol (I still hate the anime though) Anyways your welcome
Peace Aryan Warrior ,
Yeah that makes total sense however majority of people will never see it like that because of the rules and regulations imposed by islamic law and everything else...
But it's nice to know the christians have a similar belief .
And you games?? You mean using the cards? LOL wow.... I binned them AGES ago.. I did keep them for memory but binned them all (maybe has mew n mewtwo somewhere (A)) or are you talking about some kinda console game like pokemon stadium on n64 LOL.
Anyway xD, peace peace
-
And you games?? You mean using the cards? LOL wow.... I binned them AGES ago.. I did keep them for memory but binned them all (maybe has mew n mewtwo somewhere (A)) or are you talking about some kinda console game like pokemon stadium on n64 ) LOL.
Anyway xD, peace ) peace
lol I meant the video games like the recent Pokemon Black and White and I also read the mangas which are pretty freakin amazing The card game I barely touch anymore. I tried to play those again but I gave up again xDD
Peace! )