Did Biblical Prophets visit Mecca/Kaba for Pilgrimage
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Since nobody seems ready to respond, may I ask if "Kulli" (All) is the key word here? Perhaps kulli, depending on where and how it is used only means those of mankind who are living in an around a territory.
What does 'Kull" mean?
For instance, take 2234 which says
And unto every community have We appointed an act of worship, so that they might extol the name of God over whatever heads of cattle He may have provided for them . And (always bear in mind) your God is the One and Only God hence, surrender yourselves unto Him. And give thou the glad tiding unto all who are humble ?
We appointed acts of devotion for every community, for them to celebrate God?s name over the livestock He provided for them your God is One, so devote yourselves to Him. , give good news to the humble
I am trying to understand "Every community" here. We know there are lots of communities in the world who do not utter the name of God when sacrificing them. Not sure about the Jews but it seems only Muslims do. Neither do every community in the world follow animal sacrifice (for example Hindus).
Now, could every community here mean those that that were present in an around Arabia alone of whom the early Muslims were aware? Was this verse merely referring to different communities travelling to Mecca for Hajj?
Same is the case for another verse that says that Allah has ordained that Islam will dominate all other deens. As we well know that is not the case. Unless we take it to mean Islam will dominate the areas in and around early Muslims (which later did became true).
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Just wondering.........
If Ibrahim and Ismail (AS) built the Ka'aba as a centre of pilgrimage for all mankind, why did the other sons of Ibrahim and their grandsons and other Prophets mentioned in the Bible never made it a point to visit Ka'aba. We don't find any evidence at all in the Bible or the New Testament of any body going to Mecca for pilgrimage.
On the contrary, Jerusalem seems to have been the centre for Prophets of old including Jesus.
We do find a hint in the Qur'an below, but is there one in the Bible?
Hajj has been a practice that has been followed by successive generations of Prophet Abraham. (pbuh) It was even known to the father in-law of Prophet Moses (pbuh) before Prophet Moses (pbuh) received his Prophethood from God. In the following verse, we note the use of Hajj as a marker to signify a contractual period.
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"He said "Indeed I intend to marry you to one of these two daughters of mine on condition that you hire thyself to me for (the term of) eight pilgrimages (Arabic Thamaniya Hijajin). Then if you complete ten, it will be of your own accord, and I would not wish to make it difficult for you. God willing, you will find me of the righteous"Just wondering what I am missing here?
Thanks.
Moses never seen Jerusalem and neither did Jospeh. So there is no standard in this. Every prophet has his own biography. I am not sure about ismael and Abraham being in Mecca but even so its not a theological issue. We know Mecca was a Muhamedan tradition so there is no problem going to Haj there. Haj is a ritual and like all rituals its a means to an end and not an end by itself.
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Dear Bigmo, you said
"....I am not sure about ismael and Abraham being in Mecca ..."
Do we not read in the Quran who laid the foundation of The House
2125 AND LO! We made the Temple a goal to which people might repair again and again, and a sanctuary take then, the place whereon Abraham once stood as your place of prayer." And thus did We command Abraham and Ishmael "Purify My Temple for those who will walk around it, and those who will abide near it in meditation, and those who will bow down and prostrate themselves ."
2127 As Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House (in Makkah) they were praying earnestly, "Our Lord! Accept from us our service. For, verily, You are the Hearer, the Knower."
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"....I am not sure about ismael and Abraham being in Mecca ..."
Do we not read in the Quran who laid the foundation of The House
2127 As Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House (in Makkah) they were praying earnestly, "Our Lord! Accept from us our service. For, verily, You are the Hearer, the Knower."
And didn't you noticed that the word is being 'bracketed'?
There's no "Makka" on the verse..
And have you wondered why they did that?
And why didn't they put "As Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House (in Beijing)" for example..Salam / Peace
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The traditional explanation is either..... they did go there but it's not recorded anywhere or they didn't need to as this command was temporarily suspended then reinstituted with prophet Muhammad once he cleared out the pagan idols and components etc.
Both explanations are unsound.
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It may be since there is Geographical and Historical evidence that nothing as a city existed at the place; where Mekka exists now, until the time of Alexander the Great. Need confirmation after further exploration of the sources, which so far I did not get a chance to do.
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It may be since there is Geographical and Historical evidence that nothing as a city existed at the place; where Mekka exists now, until the time of Alexander the Great. Need confirmation after further exploration of the sources, which so far I did not get a chance to do.
There seems to be a connection between the rites performed in Kaaba and Hinduism..
Or the western / southern Arabian 'religion' with Hinduism. to be exact..http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pradakshina
Some quote
"Circumbulatory or pathway around the shrine of the temples by keeping time is a common form of prayer in India. This pathway made of stone around the shrine is called Pradakshina path."
For each deity, the minimum number of Pradakshinas to be done are specified.
Ganesha 1
Shiva 2
Vishnu 3
Ayyappa 4
Subrahmanya (Karthikeya) 5
Durga 6
Peepal Tree 7And also the habits of imprinting footprint of a "deity"..
As a mark of 'that deity' has 'descended' from Heaven and walk upon the earth..
http//www.trsiyengar.com/id56.shtml
http//hill-temples.blogspot.com/2011/01/karighatta-temple.htmlSalam / Peace
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There seems to be a connection between the rites performed in Kaaba and Hinduism..
Or the western / southern Arabian 'religion' with Hinduism. to be exact..http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pradakshina
Some quote
"Circumbulatory or pathway around the shrine of the temples by keeping time is a common form of prayer in India. This pathway made of stone around the shrine is called Pradakshina path."
For each deity, the minimum number of Pradakshinas to be done are specified.
Ganesha 1
Shiva 2
Vishnu 3
Ayyappa 4
Subrahmanya (Karthikeya) 5
Durga 6
Peepal Tree 7And also the habits of imprinting footprint of a "deity"..
As a mark of 'that deity' has 'descended' from Heaven and walk upon the earth..
http//www.trsiyengar.com/id56.shtml
http//hill-temples.blogspot.com/2011/01/karighatta-temple.htmlSalam / Peace
Such kind of rites existed all acroos mankind history and not just Hinduism. The rituals of Haj were performed by the pagans of Mecca. The Quran's intention was to convert that ritual to a monotheist one.
22.34. To every people did We appoint rites (of sacrifice), that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals (fit for food). But your Allah is One Allah. submit then your wills to Him (in Islam) and give thou the good news to those who humble themselves,-
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The Quran's intention was to convert that ritual to a monotheist one.
22.34. To every people did We appoint rites (of sacrifice), that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals (fit for food). But your Allah is One Allah. submit then your wills to Him (in Islam) and give thou the good news to those who humble themselves,-
Quran is against the concept of any God. Concept God as = a Deity for worship whether be "Mono", "Poly", "Bi? or any number. Allah = "One who is not at all a deity for worship."
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Peace bkanwar2
There is no deity except the Creator, I agree with you there.
But where in the Koran does it say- Allah = "One who is not at all a deity for worship."
On the contrary , the Koran says- HE did not create the Jinn and Humans except to worship HIM.
Peace.
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Peace to you goodlogic, following was written some time ago. It is present on this very forum as well.
"Dear all, just want to share this with you all. I know lot of you are not familiar with ABC's of Arabic. However, whether we like it or not reality is; our most revered book remains concealed in this language. I have kept my discourse very simple and easy even for novice to follow.
Some friends and others have been asking me to provide them with a certificate of my linguistic abilities. However, I am sure even if I were to do that. Next they would tell, to have one of their liking. Hence, I have decided to provide this as my humble certificate. Have those who are contended with their authorities with certificates, prove it wrong step by step with help of their authorities.
Badar
We are lead through, with a careful linguistic analysis, to a conclusion that the word from Al-Qu'ran is not the proper noun (name) of our Rabb. It actually stands for allathi = who, La = not and finally illah . This would mean ?One who is not illah?.
If one were to incorporate the real meanings of the word ?illah? into the translation; this word which actually is a phrase would mean ?One who is not a deity for adoration or worship (God)?.
This sounds so radically different. Who am I to say this? What are my credentials?
Why should we trust this non-sense?
These are all defensive of held belief, so valid and legitimate questions.
Let us instead of worrying about the credentials of the informer of this information; Just explore the language of the Qur'an that is presented from the Qur'an itself.
First of all let us analyse what traditionalists interpret this word to be?
And why they are wrong?
The word is thought to be a combination of a definite article Al = in English ?The? and illah , meaning ?God? but in reality ?a deity for adoration and worship?. If written as joined text it should look like and not like .
Although, in actuality this "Al" is a contraction of the word and legitimately could be written as "Al" . Can we trust this assertion despite clear references from the Lexicon of Lane and Grammar of William Wright.
Let us turn to Qur'an itself for more evidence. In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word containing a definite article ?Al? . Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition. Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.
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21 Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.
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47 and 432, is the word same concept.
However, for the word when the same preposition is added. We find that the ?Lam? of the supposed definite article ?Al? also disappears. However, following the examples above it should have been written as (in reality one can not type this so called word using an Arabic type writer).
Example, 12 and 115 more places 222, 298 and on and on, in total 116 occurrences.
Whereas, Allathi being a different word its whole contraction disappears. This also proves that this word by no means is a proper name as there is no definite article "Al". As if there would have been an "Al", it should look like this and not
Let us continue to analyses this word further. In the middle there is "Alif" like mark (highlighted in red) with a Shadda mark and another Alif above.
(In newer, print version the dagger "alif" above Shadda is taken a fatha shape instead of 'alif" like in this example as well. The gradual changes happening without anybody paying attention to these).Shadda has several uses in script. We will only discuss the relevant ones here. One use is to indicate the doubling of a consonant. It is also used to indicate such a doubling only to facilitate pronunciation in the ?Sun letters of the Arabic alphabets?. This would be a apparently plausible defensive case for the traditionalist.
Let us analysis why it is wrong. If it were to be correctly understood, then there would be no reason to keep this shadda in place once the ?Al?, if it were really ?Al? of definite article. As in the phrase is gone , as in the example above of . However, we find in the Qur'an that this is not the case. Hence, this shadda is not due to ?Al? of a definate article coming before the word to make it a proper noun, but contraction of Allathi. Although, even if it were to be the case, as illah has already ?Alif? at the start which is not considered a ?Sun letter?. Hence no shadda would be have been added as cited above.
This clearly shows that the persistence of this shadda is due, not to the shadda of ?Al?; but in truth, indicates a real doubling of the consonants.
This means inescapably, that one were to follow the order of pronunciation of, this word. It actually is a sequence of words, a phrase, not just a word . Allathi (written as a contration in script as "Al", La and illah. This would further imply that the middle shadda is suggesting ?two lams? and two alifs?.
Hence, if translated word for word, this word or more accurately phrase would mean ?One who is not a deity for adoration and worship?.
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Such kind of rites existed all acroos mankind history and not just Hinduism. The rituals of Haj were performed by the pagans of Mecca. The Quran's intention was to convert that ritual to a monotheist one.
It's hard for me to swallow that the intention of Quran's author (not the Quran itself as it's merely a book, a dead matter) is to 'convert a rite to a monotheist one'..
Because the main reason on why the priests promote 'polytheism' / 'many deities' is to gather money and power from clueless and dumb folks.. And they do that by authoring myriad of (complex) rites.. The rites need to be complex as it will cause the 'demand' of their service. If the rites are simple, the people doesn't need any 'consultant' (priest) thus it beat the whole purpose...
So... I believe the main objective of the writing of the Quran is other than that.. I believe it's more of transforming an ignorance society towards enlightenment..
Changing their behavior from robbing and cutting each other heads to helping / serving each others...
Changing their character from self / tribal centric to caring about others..
Establishing order & justice within the society..And..
If they refuse to change.... well.. then they will be wiped out from the face of the earth..That's human evolutionary principle
Those who are lacking of compassion, empathy, humility and intelligence shall be wiped off from the evolutionary path..
Some called this phenomenon as "Natural Selection" or should we say "God's Selection"?22.34. To every people did We appoint rites (of sacrifice), that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals (fit for food). But your Allah is One Allah. submit then your wills to Him (in Islam) and give thou the good news to those who humble themselves,-
Thanksgiving festivals does exist in many forms around the globe..
The other striking similarity between Arab Pagan's Religion and Hinduism is their focus and up most priority on the practice of "Glorifying the Deity".. with complex rites...
In Hinduism this is called "Puja", I believe Pakistani or Indian reader here knew very well of the term "Puja", how complex it could be.. and can concur to what I said..This 'over emphasism' on Puja / Rites is the primary cause which incite doubt within Sidharta's heart as his own dad is a high priest... In the same manner as it incite doubt within Abraham's heart as his own dad is an idol maker..
And both took a different path.. and start out different 'way of thinking'..Salam / Peace
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Peace Jafar.
When it comes to GOD I do not mind using the word " Worship". It means serving and staying loyal to GOD Alone.
But I agree " ABD" Means "servant.
Peace.
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Salam all )
I have also a question regarding the rites, in context of the idea of shirk.
Bigmo points to the theological approach that rituals (such as circumambulating seven times around a table and sing hoshanna or seven runs around the Kaaba, or symbolic stoning of the devil) to be regarded only as a symbolic act and that those acts not represent shirk. On one hand I can understand that, it will probably be clear to all that the Kaaba is never really the physical house of God. That a physical Building is needed as a place of coming together, of celebration, sacrifice and pilgrimage, this is also understandable.
i'm in trouble, however, when I go to the cross in the church and see people bowing before the cross (and jesus hangs on the crossl) . Here it is clear Jesus to be worshiped and the symbol becomes a figure. So my question can not also a symbolic act, when the focus is lost, to become a 'real' shirk ?
If myths like 'forgiving all mistakes ' are coupled with the circumambulation or an other Rytus, then I see the monotheism in danger.
Do people need really rituals to get close to God? And is God in need for rituals?
Safa and Marwa are declared as 'rites' of Allah. This leads us, however, to a detachment of the symbolic act for a practical act namely anything that has no symbolism, but pure practicality The distribution of the meat, reduce poverty, to make people happy, to feed the hungry.
thanks for clarification.
peace (and i know my english.. )) -
Please try to understand all current religions of world including current Islam's primary philosophy revolve around the concept of "a God".
In English God is not a name. It is a title given to an entity/deity worthy of human worship. Arabic word Allah is made by religion Islam equal to God of English language, in concept.
However, if one can understand that meaning of word Allah = "One who is not a deity for worship" based upon language of Quran. This single word/sentence is enough to nullify all religions. Hence, any discussion related to rituals and rites of these religions is futile.
The real quest should be what rest of the Quranic text has to offer us. This is the quest and search I am finding myself in now. Is there anybody willing to help and join hands?
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Hai,
I just want to quote something from Bible. Bakah is the another name for Makkah as it is mentioned in Quran (396) , actually Bakah is the ancient name for Makkah.Refer http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah
.Now refer Bible Pslam 846, mentioned the name Bakah. But the bible translators refer this name as ''weeping valley'', but you cannot find such weeping valley no where else in Bible.As they pass through the Valley of Baka, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.
