Taxes
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Pathetic response.
Its really sad to see most of you so anxious to rebuff others that you pay no attention to what's been posted.Resorting to Insult. Quran 4911 do not insult one another.
It is a valid response.Abdun Nur's post is all okay, I have no problem with it, None. If you want to do it, its your Freedom. You are free to do whatever with your life.
why wait, we can stop eating, starve and die. That gives freedom from worldly illusion and shaitan's fear.
Pathetic response.
Its really sad to see most of you so anxious to rebuff others that you pay no attention to what's been posted.You did not answer the Question, let me answer it;
429 O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.Guarding God Given Life(Quran 429);
Abdun Nur have all the freedom in the world to do his Idea, so does You and me.Are you willing to do that? Most are not, so the bombs fall.
Reality face Abdun Nur. Abdun Nur's Ideas on most people just need more time,
My proactive methods, Making healthy environment trough societal effort, a Nation-State is not a threat to Abdun Nur's Ideas, and it can beneficial to Abdun Nur's Ideas.
If living out Biological Lifespan, Abdun Nur's Ideas does that very fine.
Don't forget about Jacque Fresco, Resource-Based Economy, no more property rights/Allodial land.
Many People, many ways to guard their God Given Life.
Yet the fact remain that people suffer from fear and satan induces fear
SAY "I seek refuge with the Sustainer of men, 1141238 We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
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Resorting to Insult. Quran 4911 do not insult one another.
It is a valid response.Abdun Nur's post is all okay, I have no problem with it, None. If you want to do it, its your Freedom. You are free to do whatever with your life.
Pathetic response.
Its really sad to see most of you so anxious to rebuff others that you pay no attention to what's been posted.You did not answer the Question, let me answer it;
429 O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.Guarding God Given Life(Quran 429);
Abdun Nur have all the freedom in the world to do his Idea, so does You and me.Reality face Abdun Nur. Abdun Nur's Ideas on most people just need more time,
My proactive methods, Making healthy environment trough societal effort, a Nation-State is not a threat to Abdun Nur's Ideas, and it can beneficial to Abdun Nur's Ideas.
living out Biological Lifespan, Abdun Nur's Ideas does that very fine.
Don't forget about Jacque Fresco, Resource-Based Economy, no more property rights/Allodial land.
Many People, many ways to guard their God Given Life.
238 We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
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Resorting to Insult. Quran 4911 do not insult one another.
It is a valid response.Salaam Producer
I would like to point out that I had no intention of insulting you. I believe those who throw insults at others are actually insulting themselves as they stoop low, however I am confused,on the one hand you suggested why wait, we can stop eating, starve and die. That gives worldly illusion and shaitan's fear yet quoted, 429 O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful, -\Reality face Abdun Nur. Abdun Nur's Ideas on most people just need more time,
I can understadn Abdun Nur's point very well as I too have legal knowledge but to carry this idea forward he needs group of brave people, like the ones who are currently camping outside St Paul's Cathedral and, to be quite honest, sadly I don't see many on this forum. peace
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Salaam IMHO,
Salaam Producer
I would like to point out that I had no intention of insulting you. I believe those who throw insults at others are actually insulting themselves as they stoop low, however I am confused,on the one hand you suggested why wait, we can stop eating, starve and die. That gives worldly illusion and shaitan's fear yet quoted, 429 O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful, -\Isimple inquiry about "Guarding God Given Life", ans I answered it.
There are many methods for "Guarding God Given Life". but since we do not know our biological lifespan. Any methods can be true. Mine may be true, Abdun Nur's may be true.
Validity of a Russian, lived more than 100 years by the food he raise. He live by himself without any intrusion by Soviet rule. http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV_Nd0SOBBU
His Allodial Claim works against the Soviet Tyranny and he lives very long.but Allodial Claim is being threaten by Robotic technologies. Allodial ideas may cure People, but it cannot on Highly Automated Robot that may be as advance as founded in the latest videogames. I only address what Allodial Claim do not.
Can the Predator Drones flies without human? Tomahawk Missile done that since 1983. Robot Making Robots since 1989. The Evil Human Contract-destroyer Parasites , The Crown Corporation, British Empire, etc is Replacing Human with Robots, since robots are not attracted by Allodial Claim.
I speculate, Abdun Nur Allodial Claim is more of a survivalist, example. I'm more on Allodial Claim of Civilization that proactive in making things to invite Extreme Contract-destroying Parasites, to be not Extreme Contract-destroying Parasites.
Methods of solving "Extreme Contract-destroying Parasites".
- Abdun Nur Being an Example.
- Producer invite them with Products.
both method are Good. all are invited to do it.
can understadn Abdun Nur's point very well as I too have legal knowledge but to carry this idea forward he needs group of brave people, like the ones who are currently camping outside St Paul's Cathedral and, to be quite honest, sadly I don't see many on this forum. peace
City of London is Allodial to City of London Corporation. Its a Sovereign State like the Vatican. Saint Paul's Cathedral is in City of London.
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20% can be applied as a tax by an Islamic state.
Peace
The verse for this is a reference to war booty, which is hardly an earned income. I really don't think this is an applicable verse go use for income tax.
The Quran existed in an area that had known civilisation for thousands of years. These regimes taxed people, yet the Quran never advocates an income tax. Income taxation in the UK and US is also, only, a relatively recent innovation and even in many Sunni/Shia historical countries (such as Andalusia), they were more reliant on non-Sunni/Shias for their tax base.
Roshan
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2256
There shall be no compulsion in the religion.Thus, Its a mutual Consent, The People, pay the Government to Defend them from Other Tyrannical Government.
People Make Govt to defend From Other Govt, Especially Evil Govt.
Only Allah is King, not Government, Government Serve God by Serving the People.
It clearly says
841 You should know Of anything you gain, that one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. You will do this if you have faith with God and in what We revealed to Our servant on the day of distinction, the day the two armies clashed. God applies due measure to/has power over all things.
Pay you Taxes Voluntarily. I don't feel volunteer to pay taxes. Maybe in 1000years later I may get the feeling to Voluntarily pay taxes. )
Tax done to fund the State Govt. Tariff is a tax on Import, protecting the State Local Industry.
Tax the State, Cheap imports will weaken the State. US free trade for example, Taxing the state, no tariff for imports(free trade).
Right... That is why they have an embargo against Cuba...
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Salaam progressive,
I notice you are intentional perverting the guidance of the Qur'an to your own corruption, sighting Ayah 841 as if it was referencing taxation upon a population, is that the action of a Muslim?
There is no compulsion in the Deen of Islam, and taxation is always imposed, so you are compelled through threat or force of arms to comply, therefore taxation cannot be anything to do with the Deen of Islam, you need consider no other ayah, as all ayahs must maintain the guidance expressed by all and every other ayah.
Cuba is a system of corporation where the corporate government is all powerful, they impose regulation, taxation, legislation but surpress all forms of competition and function upon total monopoly, this creates stagnation. This form of corporation is the furthest structure of order from the Islamic model; the Islamic model has no government, no sovereigns, no ownership beyond that which you create yourself, no taxation, no legislation, no representatives, no charters, no constitutions, no statutes, no acts, no treaties and no corporations.
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Peace Abdun Nur.
What about GOD , HE asks that we should serve only HIM.. Or are you going to tell us there is no God either.
Peace.
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It clearly says
841 You should know Of anything you gain, that one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. You will do this if you have faith with God and in what We revealed to Our servant on the day of distinction, the day the two armies clashed. God applies due measure to/has power over all things.
841 You missed out the reference to war booty - the 1/5 only applies to war booty.
(Khalifa) You should know that if you gain any SPOILS IN WAR, one fifth shall go to God and his messenger
(Hilali) And know that whatever of WAR BOOTY you may gain, verily one fifth is assisned to Allah and the
Messenger -
peace & greetings to you guys as well
yes 841 would be talking about spoils of war
however, we note other verses to give from what God has provided us, and not to hoard or be stingy....
By doing this, there would readily be available money around...however, Annual Taxation would not be religiously compulsory.
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We should institute a zero percent tax on everything.
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20% can be applied as a tax by an Islamic state.
That's not true. The 20% is in the context of war. 20% of the spoils of war should he donated as charity.
Also, even charity is VOLUNTARY. There can't be compulsion. Quran has state laws and personal values/morals/practices to follow.
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Notice how it never says "go to court" or "collect taxes" or "go to prison" or "vote for politicians."
429 O you who acknowledge! Do not consume one another's money unjustly. There shall only be trade that is mutually agreed by you. And do not destroy one another. God is Compassionate towards you.
Riba is forbidden to begin with. This verse is about all other transactions and makes it clear that wealth can only pass from one person to another through trade and mutual agreement. This verse forbids (compulsory) taxation and other forms of theft, extortion and illicit gain.
435 If you all experience a split between the two, send a judge/an arbiter from his family and a judge/an arbiter from hers. (If they want to reconcile, then God will bring them together. God is Knowledgeable, Ever-aware.)
Anyone can be a judge. You dont need a government license - only knowledge and respect.
458 God commands you to give back anything the people have entrusted to you. If you judge among the people, you shall judge equitably. The best enlightenment indeed is what GOD recommends for you. GOD is Hearer, Seer.
This verse is often distorted to justify parliamentary majoritism (commonly referred to as "democracy", when in reality it has to do with the opposite give back anything the people have entrusted to you - not delegate offices!
459 O you who believe, you shall obey God, and you shall obey the messenger and those in charge among you. If you dispute in any matter, you shall refer it to GOD and the messenger, if you do believe in GOD and the Last Day. This is better for you, and provides you with the best solution.
"Those in charge" can mean various things that arent governmnt. Government is a violent entity, not "people in charge."Do you know any government that implements the God's law? Of course not. See the next verse
460 Did you not see those who claimed they acknowledged what was sent down to you and what was sent before you? They wanted to seek judgment through taghoot*, while they were ordered to reject it. It is the devil who wants to lead them astray.
*ideologues, politcians, heroes - all fake authorites
Parliamentary majoritism is not condoned
4236 So whatever you are given is simply an enjoyment of the worldly life, and what is with God is far better and more lasting for those who acknowledge and put their trust in their Lord....
4237 ...and who avoid gross harm and lewdness, and when they are angered, they forgive.
4238 ...and who respond to their Lord by upholding the salat. Their rule/command is conducted by mutual consultation among themselves, and from Our provisions to them they give.
2219 ...They ask you what to donate, say, "Whatever you can spare." Thus, God clarifies for you the signs that you may think.
This does not tell the messenger to force them to pay anything, let alone a fixed amount. If it did, verses about stinginess and people criticizing some people for giving much and poor people for givng nothing would not make sense.
Layth advocates tht the "islamic state" tax (read steal) 20% of people's income. That is a twisted distortion.
839 You should fight them all until there is no more tribulation, and so that the entire obligation/responsibility is for the god. If they cease*... (God is seer of what they do.)
- i.e. if they cease, dont fight them anymore
840 But if they turn away*... Know that God is your patron What an excellent patron, and what an excellent helper.)
i.e. keep fighting if the continue
841 And you should know Of anything you gain of spoils, one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger, to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer." You will do this if you acknowledge God and in what We revealed to Our servant on the day of distinction, the day the two armies clashed. God is able to do all things.
This is confirmed further along the chapter
867 It was not for any prophet to take prisoners unless it was during warfare in the region. (You desire the materials of this world, while God wants the Hereafter for you. God is respected, wise.)
868 Had it not been for a predetermined decree from God, a severe punishment would have afflicted you for what you took.
869 So consume what you have gained of spoils, lawful and good, and be aware of God. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
Taking prisoners and spoils are an exception for war. Clearly these are spoils of war, not profit or wealth! Other than in war, there is no concept of prisoners. The closest things to it is house arrest (415)
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Peace all,
a state is a feudal construct designed to hold the masses under the control of a wealth elite of jinn (psychopaths), it imposes riba upon land use, taxation is imposing on the use of your labours, rental is imposing on your use of infrastructure, profit is imposing on your access to resources, and interest bearing debt is the result of the five forms of riba working in unison. Riba is NOT trade.
Trade is the reciprocal exchange of the fruits of my labour for the fruits of someone else’s labour. So clearly Usury (riba) is not trade.
Usury is a one-sided extraction of the fruits of the labours of another, which has 5 basic forms
Debt (the interest demand for the use of money)
Profit (the interest demanded for the use of capital)
Rental (the interest demanded for the use of infrastructure)
Taxation (the interest demanded for the use of your labour)
Ownership (the interest demanded for the use of land through the fiction of eminent domain originating through feudalism)
So could Islam allow any of these five basic forms of riba? Well, as we are, well claimed to be, at war with riba, I think it's a no brain'er.