How do you deal with parents and your religion?
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Dear Azygous,
I was a kid once and now have children,I was a traditional muslim and now i follow the quranic advice.To me Islam is THE easiast religion to follow and the most successful way.I reckon you don't really want to be anything else -but you don't know what islam is please read the topic on "is there anything more then this for islam" you will like it but read some other topics here too they are quit enlightening but some of them may be confusion initially.Your father seems to me to be a traditional muslim but not fulfilling their rules - but that is his life and i would advice you to lead yours as no dought you know you will only be reckoned with what you are doing.Thanks.
I wouldn't advice my children or any child to follow anything other then this.But God will no dought help you,to follow the quranic Islam.
Salaams.
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Now, I was raised Muslim but I no longer call myself Muslim.
Right! Allah only knows who a Muslim is. I think you are solely selected and guided by HIM. None dares say " I am a Muslim!". It is Allah who shall decide that. Alhamdulillah, you are 'precious' for allah.
It's very annoying, because I refuse to lie to him. I do not drink, I do not believe in lying and breaking the heart of someone I love. I take my responsibilities seriously. However, I do not want to go to the mosque. Isn't it true in Islam that your relationship with Allah is private and no one has any right to interfere?
This is high standards of being a muslim only to Allah and being Muslim is very personal between the servant and Allah, his Master!
I do not want to be a muslim.
You are already one, but naturally! Mashaallah!
dr fazl
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Peace be upon you,
The God says;
(293) We did test those before them, and The God will certainly know those who are true from those who are false.
You are being tested brother. Remain firm in the path of the God. It is not a "religion", it is THE way of life that is prescribed in the God's reading(quran).
My opinion? Well, the God tells us not to "beat around the bush", we must enter from the proper doors and be straightfoward. Since it seems the biggest issue is "mosque", then what you should do is take a look at the word "masjid' and find out (if you don't already know), what it REALLY MEANS. Then present the proof to your father, and every time he comes with that, you defend it with TRUTH. Then let him decide which path he will take. The God did not give us the story of Abraham and his father for nothing.
I deal with the same thing from my father who is "christian", and I defend the "attacks" with TRUTH. There is no foundation for his argument so it gets easier and easier.
As long as you try to avoid the discussion, he will think you are just "lost and confused", you must let him KNOW that you stand on STRONG principles and it will either force him to study more, or just keep his mouth shut on the topic. We hope he chooses the path of studying, then you can help him along the path.
(1943) "You my father, that I, (it) had come to me from the knowledge, what did not come to you, so follow me, I guide you a straight/level path.
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Salaam Azygous,
Try to put yourself in your father's shoes. Why do you think he is telling you this every time he calls? Obviously, he does not want you to repeat his mistakes. It seems that he is well aware of them and he is regretting how he had failed you by the way he behaved in the past, but what really reinforces his fears is your resentment to Islam which he sees it in your refusal to visit the masjid.
He wants you to just go to the masjid, so why not? Go for one time! What is the worst thing that could happen? Visit the masjid then tell your father how exactly you felt about it. Meet your father half way and he will listen to you, because he would see that you respect his word and that you are listening to him and really trying. Seeing that from you, maybe he will be convinced of your thinking. You will reach a middle ground, In Shaaa AllahAnd I have to say that I strongly disagree with what drfazl wrote.
None dares say " I am a Muslim!".
We are all Muslims by nature, by our creation. It is in our DNA to be Muslims, BILFITDRAH , to worship ONE God. So no matter what you label yourself, as long as you believe in the One Al Mighty, then you are a Muslim.The best of luck, Azygous
Taj
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Peace be upon you Taj,
We are all Muslims by nature, by our creation. It is in our DNA to be Muslims, BILFITDRAH , to worship ONE God. So no matter what you label yourself, as long as you believe in the One Al Mighty, then you are a Muslim.
No, the word "muslim" is not a title. It is a description that we seek to achieve. The God says do not dies except in a state of submission(muslim). These means that we have the capability of being "muslim" or not. Only one who submits can be described as "muslim", but the second they do wrong, this description no longer is applicable to them.
This is the problem. This is why so many think that "MUSLIMS" are terrorists and the like, because they THINK this is a title. NO, just because one grows up following the "Arabic religion" doesn't make them worthy of the description "muslim", but they give themselves the TITLE "MUSLIM", which is incorrect.
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Salaam Kyle,
You wrote
No, the word "muslim" is not a title.But I didn't say that the word ?Muslim? is a title or that it should be a title! What I said is exactly the opposite.
That is what I saidWe are all Muslims by nature, by our creation. It is in our DNA to be Muslims, BILFITDRAH , to worship ONE God. So no matter what you label yourself, as long as you believe in the One Al Mighty, then you are a Muslim.
I thought that my explanation above was clear, if not then here it is again
To believe in ALLAH, the ONE AND ONLY GOD, is the truth human beings are born with. It is the truth that is engraved in our hearts.
The problem is in the distractions and the labels/titles. Those things would make us stray, when they become more important than the truth. But once we get a wake up call and suddenly tune in to our hearts and look inside ourselves, there is no mistake about it. That truth is there loud and clear. Allah made it that way so that no human being would dare to argue that he didn't know what to believe in Allah (= Islam) is!You wrote
This is why so many think that "MUSLIMS" are terrorists and the like, because they THINK this is a title. NO, just because one grows up following the "Arabic religion" doesn't make them worthy of the description "muslim", but they give themselves the TITLE "MUSLIM", which is incorrect.People can call themselves whatever they like but the truth remains, we are all born Muslims. If you stray from the truth that does not mean that it is not there. It is there all the time, telling you to believe in One God and to worship HIM.
Taj
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Peace be upon you Taj,
My apologies, I misread what you said (and even copied and pasted it) ops
But in your response, I did see something I wanted to discuss with you.
People can call themselves whatever they like but the truth remains, we are all born Muslims. If you stray from the truth that does not mean that it is not there. It is there all the time, telling you to believe in One God and to worship HIM.
I do not think all humans at all times are submitters(muslims), because it is a state of being.
Look at the following verse,
(2132) And Abraham directed/commanded with it his sons, and Jacob "You my sons , that The God chose/purified for you the system, so do not die (E) except and you are submitters"
So if there is a possibility of dying not submitting, then it is possible that we can change our true nature, which I do agree is submission/peace, to another nature.
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Salaam Kyle,
I do not think all humans at all times are submitters(muslims), because it is a state of being.
Well, the way you think is your choice, certainly.
Now my way of thinking is different than yours. I view all people as Muslims until proven otherwise. Meaning, until they choose to willingly deny the truth they are wired with, and start to act with arrogance and pride, the way Qaroon did .
So, personally, I cannot think of anyone not being a Muslim unless I see him stating the same as what Qaroon stated. And even if that person would state that, maybe at his time of death he repents and Allah accepts his repent, who knows?
What Prophet Ibraheem stressed and taught his children to do, was to remain in contact with that truth, to hold steadfast to the truth of believing in Allah and Allah alone, till their last breath.So if there is a possibility of dying not submitting, then it is possible that we can change our true nature, which I do agree is submission/peace, to another nature.
You wrote it, Kyle! "Dying not submitting" Now I am asking you, how can we know that of another person? Who of us will ever be able to know if a person is dying not submitting? Can we, humans, be there in the heart of that person at his moment of dying? Allah only can know that. Allah knows if that person has died surrendering to that truth or not.
Taj
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Peace be upon you Taj,
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I do not think all humans at all times are submitters(muslims), because it is a state of being.Well, the way you think is your choice, certainly.
Now my way of thinking is different than yours. I view all people as Muslims until proven otherwise. Meaning, until they choose to willingly deny the truth they are wired with, and start to act with arrogance and pride, the way Qaroon did .Okay, so when they prove you otherwise, do you still describe them as submitting? That is my point D
So, personally, I cannot think of anyone not being a Muslim unless I see him stating the same as what Qaroon stated. And even if that person would state that, maybe at his time of death he repents and Allah accepts his repent, who knows?
At the time of death it is TOO LATE, as Pharoah shows us. But I am not saying that I have a list of who is a submitter or not, you misunderstand me, I am only saying that "muslim" is not a description of MANY PEOPLE.
What Prophet Ibraheem stressed and taught his children to do, was to remain in contact with that truth, to hold steadfast to the truth of believing in Allah and Allah alone, till their last breath.
I agree, but I do not see how this fits into this discussion.
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So if there is a possibility of dying not submitting, then it is possible that we can change our true nature, which I do agree is submission/peace, to another nature.Now read what you wrote, Kyle! "Dying not submitting" Now I am asking you, how can we know that of another person? Who of us will ever be able to know if a person, for example, is dying not submitting? Can we, humans, be there in the heart of that person at his moment of dying? Allah only can know that. Allah knows if that person has died surrendering to that truth or not.
Taj, where did you see me say that I could tell if a dying person was a submitter or not? You will never find that statement from me. What I DID say is that it is POSSIBLE for a person to die either as a submitter or non submitter, do you agree? If so, then we can end this discussion because that is all I was trying to point out to you, "muslim" is a state of being, not a title for all humans.
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Salaam Kyle,
Peace be upon you Taj,
Kyle wrote
I do not think all humans at all times are submitters(muslims), because it is a state of being.Taj wrote
Well, the way you think is your choice, certainly.
Now my way of thinking is different than yours. I view all people as Muslims until proven otherwise. Meaning, until they choose to willingly deny the truth they are wired with, and start to act with arrogance and pride, the way Qaroon did .Okay, so when they prove you otherwise, do you still describe them as submitting? That is my point D
If those people decide to disconnect from that inner programming then it is their choice, which could be temporary, who knows? I am not in a place to describe them anything because they may change their minds at one point or another, and I don?t think I will be with them till the moment they die, when they may be dying surrendering to that programming. Don't we always think that we have decided on something for good only to change our minds few minutes later! So to label someone as a none-submitter looks like final to me, when all the while that person is still alive and still may get back on track! Do you get me, Kyle?
Taj wrote
So, personally, I cannot think of anyone not being a Muslim unless I see him stating the same as what Qaroon stated. And even if that person would state that, maybe at his time of death he repents and Allah accepts his repent, who knows?Kyle wrote
At the time of death it is TOO LATE, as Pharoah shows us.The Pharoah is a special case!
Kyle wrote
But I am not saying that I have a list of who is a submitter or not, you misunderstand me, I am only saying that "muslim" is not a description of MANY PEOPLE.That saying I choose not to adopt, because I don't know what goes inside people's hearts. I would prefer to assume that they are!
Taj wrote
What Prophet Ibraheem stressed and taught his children to do, was to remain in contact with that truth, to hold steadfast to the truth of believing in Allah and Allah alone, till their last breath.Kyle wrote
I agree, but I do not see how this fits into this discussion.Because the end is very critical. By the end only it will be decided whether that person died as a surrender or not, regardless of what he did in his life. Some people would do fine during their lives but towards the end they change, and the opposite is true. These matters are beyond ability to calculate!
Kyle wrote
So if there is a possibility of dying not submitting, then it is possible that we can change our true nature, which I do agree is submission/peace, to another nature.Taj wrote
Now read what you wrote, Kyle! "Dying not submitting" Now I am asking you, how can we know that of another person? Who of us will ever be able to know if a person, for example, is dying not submitting? Can we, humans, be there in the heart of that person at his moment of dying? Allah only can know that. Allah knows if that person has died surrendering to that truth or not.Kyle wrote
Taj, where did you see me say that I could tell if a dying person was a submitter or not? You will never find that statement from me. What I DID say is that it is POSSIBLE for a person to die either as a submitter or non submitter, do you agree? If so, then we can end this discussion because that is all I was trying to point out to you, "muslim" is a state of being, not a title for all humans.It is possible for a person to die while surrendering to this truth or while denying it but how do I Know?
Yes, a Muslim is a state of being for all humans unless they choose to disconnect from themselves!Taj
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Peace be upon you Taj,
If those people decide to disconnect from that inner programming then it is their choice, which could be temporary, who knows? I am not in a place to describe them anything because they may change their minds at one point or another, and I don?t think I will be with them till the moment they die, when they may be dying surrendering to that programming. Don't we always think that we have decided on something for good only to change our minds few minutes later! So to label someone as a none-submitter looks like final to me, when all the while that person is still alive and still may get back on track! Do you get me, Kyle?
Yes, I understand you completely. But the reality is that there ARE MANY MANY MANY people who are not submitters. It is not wrong to be able to discern if one is submitting or not.
(9114) Abraham's asking for forgiveness for his father was not except on a promise he promised it (to only) him, so when (it) was clarified/explained to him, that he (his father is) an enemy to God, he declared innocence from him, that Abraham (is a) clement, forebearing.
(6010) You, you those who have faith, if the faithful females came to you emigrating , so test/examine them, The God (is) more knowing with their faith, so if you know them (to be) faithful, so do not return them to the disbelievers...
How does one go about the above life situations if we are not allowed to discern between a submitter and a rejecter?
The Pharoah is a special case!
How so? Why would the God use a "special case" when giving us examples?
That saying I choose not to adopt, because I don't know what goes inside people's hearts. I would prefer to assume that they are!
I understand thatyou want to maintain positivity, but you should not fool yourself into thinking that all people submit to the God. That is a fantasy world. If everyone submitted, Azygous (the one who started this thread) would not have needed to start this thread.
Because the end is very critical. By the end only it will be decided whether that person died as a surrender or not, regardless of what he did in his life. Some people would do fine during their lives but towards the end they change, and the opposite is true. These matters are beyond ability to calculate!
Taj, you continue to twist my position. I am not saying that one who AT THIS TIME is not submitting will always be lost. All I am saying is that you canot call everyone "muslim" because that is just not the case. hat contradicts the entire reading(quran).
It is possible for a person to die while surrendering to this truth or while denying it but how do I Know?
I never said you would know, but you can look at the words and actions of a human and tell if they are walking the God's path of Peace, or the other path of wickedness. What path is the terrorist on who blows up innocent children and himself? Or the politician who drops bombs on innocent children? You call them submitters?
Yes, a Muslim is a state of being for all humans unless they choose to disconnect with themselves!
Taj, let me ask you, why did you take me through all of this just to end up saying exactly what I reminded you of? D Do you realize just how many people are DISCONNECTED, as you put it?
Peace to you, lets bring this thread back to the topic it was intended for.