Is hadith false??? Please help me understand

Bigmo

Salaam,

My personal reasoning about homosexuality is exacting to that which ''Bigmo" has described. You have taken the traditionally accepted perspective that the punishment of those people was for homosexuality. The prohibition of homosexuality is not stated categorically in any of those verses.

It isn't the most well written book, in my opinion, but if you read 'Homosexuality in Islam', by Scott Siraj Kugle, you might find that interesting as it has opposing ideas to the tradional assertions. Alternatively, you could "youtube" the guy, I think he has some short seminars on there. At the same time, I would advise not to take anyone's proclamations, especially not on religion, as absolute. Ask Allah for guidance in all things and He will guide you to your peace insh'Allah.

Lastly, it isn't really my place to say this, but in the spirit of care, I really do think you could, perhaps, benefit from some sort of counselling/therapy. I don't know whether that's something you've explored before, but I think that, along with your journey in faith to your spiritual nourishment, would be extremely beneficial for you.

Forgive me if I have spoken out of turn.

May Allah guide you to your peace.

Ma assalamah.

I have also noticed that about him. He has persuaded himself that homosexuality is a grave sin. Even if we are to take it as a sin, its not a grave sin. Homosexuality tells us nothing about a person's faith or character. All it tells us is his sexual preference. It says nothing about how he goes about dealing with people. Homosexuality by itself is not a measure to judge someone with. But I think he has been influenced by the Sectarian understanding of what is a grave sin and what is not. Homosexuality does not tell us if a person is a liar or honest, sincere or a hypocrire, generous or stingy, loyal or treacherous, forgiving or vengeful or merciful or heartless. Its in the end a sexual preference that most people do not share and find odd and even repulsive. That is normal since most humans are heterosexuals. I also believe society is harsher on male homosexuals than on lesbians. I think this has to do with how men view gays. Men can find lesbianism attractive and even exciting. They can buy sex tapes where lesbians are performing. But most men find male homosexuality repulsive. The more male dominated a society the more negative view of homosexuality.

The problem is that he is relying on the story of Lot. That story was not designed to deal with homosexuality. The only time the Quran comments on sexual misconduct is on adultery since this has an element of betrayal and a breaking of a bond. He somehow convinced himself like the Sects did that the people of Lot were destroyed because of homosexuality. Its not that this elevated homsexuality beyond what it should be but it in fact demoted the reason why God will destroy nations. Destroying nations is not a small issue. Its not something God will do because of sexual preference only.

unknownuser

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojxYDtl_xuQ&feature=plcp

I LOVE THIS GUY!!!!! he is egyptian too!! he makes me feel not insane..hurray!

edit Omg he was assasinated....OMG...this world is so messed up...

justamuslim

@Bigmo..... nice post.

I don't believe anyone can truly be at peace if they listen to and are influenced by majority of the people on this earth. I don't know what it is like to be gay but I do know how it felt being told that I am going to hell for questioning and not believing what I was being told to believe. Well, at least the Christians said that I will be going to purgatory till I accept Jesus as my savior.

Again, it is my understanding that you have only committed a grave sin if you have sex outside of marriage. If desiring and having a crush on someone is a sin, I am sure most if not all of us have all sinned! I can fantasize about having an orgy but that is not a sin. Only a sin if I actually go do it. I can think and plan about stealing but that is not a crime. Only when I actually act on certain thoughts will I be held accountable for such actions.

Now applying that to homosexuality. A gay person can think, desire, lusting after same sex but has not committed a sin unless he acts on his thoughts and desire. So why not accept being gay and just not committing any sin? now, if it is distressing to even being gay and desiring is a sin then work on that distress by asking God for help and never giving up.

justamuslim

knowledge involved...we are all just a result of our upbringing....nothing is in our control..

You do have control - full control of your thoughts and also your life now. You can control who you listen to, who you will be influenced by and what kind of person you want to be. You are in the drivers seat of your life. You are in charge. You have so many choices. You can make that choice and take control over how you feel about yourself.

I pray that you make the right choices and find your way and peace within your soul. Well, we are all rooting for you here! Hang in there.

unknownuser

You do have control - full control of your thoughts and also your life now. You can control who you listen to, who you will be influenced by and what kind of person you want to be. You are in the drivers seat of your life. You are in charge. You have so many choices. You can make that choice and take control over how you feel about yourself.

I pray that you make the right choices and find your way and peace within your soul. Well, we are all rooting for you here! Hang in there.

I think my eyes are opening finally....and although the truth like the Sun hurts to stare at...the light it sheds is too enlightening to go back to darkness..

Thank you everyone who replied to me....I think I now know my place...not my path yet...but at least I feel at the right starting place...

Thanks everyone...God Bless and Guide us...and prevent us from being misguided....and help people with there fears as you did mine.

good_logic

Peace nevasheva.

It was a really nice feeling reading your last post.

I am sure you are keeping busy, if you find time browse

http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/the-journey-and-the-questions-continue/

Stay loyal to your creator.
Peace.

aabdul

Please read the articles in this website....they would be immensly beneficial

www.resurgentislam.com

Jafar

offtopicPeople hi, I am someone who was born in egypt and was raised to be a sunni, I beheld people practicing islam I was never really decidedly muslim my self, I suffered from homosexuality, and longed for answer about what the heck am I, and why am I like this...I found some answers, and I am now sure that it is a psychological problem, and I know what exactly went wrong, and that made me feel islam and the holy books were definitley right then, because it said that homosexuality is bad even though western science would have you say its OK TO BE GAY...sigh..politics...

NOW obviously that sounds uncomfortable for any muslim, or religious person...I can read the Qur'an and feel its truth...but for hadiths....

"Homosexuality" is not a sickness or a psychological problem..
Gay people brain has similar construct with straight female brain...
People are born to be Gay.. they didn't choose it.... they just being born with it...

http//viewzone2.com/homosexual.html
http//www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology

Thus it's normal to be gay.. and there are people borne to be gays...

I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!! I can't understand why was Bukhari entrusted with such faith, and his dream was unquestionable...the whole history behind hadith makes me feel so conflicted and feel like...does everyone I know really have it wrong??? am I the heathens and truth twisters the Qur'an mentions I have always grewn to not trust my judgment due to my homosexuality it confused everything....

Bukhari and other materials was needed in order to create a new religion branded Islam (tm)..
With Muhammad as the 2nd Deity of a #1 Deity called Allah..

Due to the problem that Quran is not a book about religion...
Thus they took the 'brand which already famous among the people thus guaranteed a good sale' (read Muhammad and Allah) and they created a business religion out of it..

In order to become a religion, the business founder need to create at least 3 things

The main store temple (Makkah was decided as the main site) where they can tax the believers.. ergh I mean where the believers can gather and bring in their offerings to the God..
The rites.. (Copy and paste from myriad of sources, majority are from Pagan Arab rites) and it's getting more and more complex as time goes by... which is on purpose as it shall entice the demand for consultants (priest/imam) who understand the details of those rites and it's appropriate mantras...
The minimum donation amount.
Alas.. their competitor the christians has cut down their donation amount to merely 10% thus they need to provide additional discount and satisfied with 2.5%.. Of course with additional notes / recommendation that if you give higher than that it will please God more...

And all of those business policies God's commandment need to be ratified and legalized somewhere.. thus the hadith book was born to fulfill those needs...

Salam / Peace

unknownuser

"Homosexuality" is not a sickness or a psychological problem..
Gay people brain has similar construct with straight female brain...
People are born to be Gay.. they didn't choose it.... they just being born with it...

http//viewzone2.com/homosexual.html
http//www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology

Thus it's normal to be gay.. and there are people borne to be gays...

Bukhari and other materials was needed in order to create a new religion branded Islam (tm)..
With Muhammad as the 2nd Deity of a #1 Deity called Allah..

Due to the problem that Quran is not a book about religion...
Thus they took the 'brand which already famous among the people thus guaranteed a good sale' (read Muhammad and Allah) and they created a business religion out of it..

In order to become a religion, the business founder need to create at least 3 things

The main store temple (Makkah was decided as the main site) where they can tax the believers.. ergh I mean where the believers can gather and bring in their offerings to the God..
The rites.. (Copy and paste from myriad of sources, majority are from Pagan Arab rites) and it's getting more and more complex as time goes by... which is on purpose as it shall entice the demand for consultants (priest/imam) who understand the details of those rites and it's appropriate mantras...
The minimum donation amount.
Alas.. their competitor the christians has cut down their donation amount to merely 10% thus they need to provide additional discount and satisfied with 2.5%.. Of course with additional notes / recommendation that if you give higher than that it will please God more...

And all of those business policies God's commandment need to be ratified and legalized somewhere.. thus the hadith book was born to fulfill those needs...

Salam / Peace

The gay part....this is all not proven...I am a pharamcy major...not that I mean to boast at all God forgive me if I do...but I know very well how scientific statements can be heavily influenced and biased...the problem with these theories is that they don't prove what was the cause first....does my brain look femalish because I think like females??? or is it the other way around....
The babies vs hormone thing...is not proven at all....
NOTHING of those things applies to everyone at all under those circumstances....but I dealt with a lot of gay people...and experience tells me it's what NARTH..and what the APA freaking used to say before politics came over them...the story of how gay changed to be normal is so bizzare...all that stuff that is being claimed now wasn't even used at the time it was removed.... You don't need o go through that heaedache though I am ok with being gay now more than ever ).

NARTH.com...and what they claimed rang very true to me....I had a horrible family life...albeit not intended to be so...but it was....

About Bukhari...the problem is I don't know what was Bukhari's intention...maybe he really felt he was doing the world a favor...maybe how people used his book was beyond his understanding or his wishes (Nobel vs Dynamite).....and I heard about people who dream about prophet Muhammed...or even...Jesus...it sounds so real to them....I never experienced...I rarely dream and when I do it is extremley difficult to collect what it was about...so I don't know what that feels like....

The problem is some hadiths are actually are SO NICE....so I do think there could be some truth in them...the question I am trying to sift through now, if I would use the Qur'an alone what would be left...

I also came Rashad Khalifa's video...now that's a whole other possibility I was like...O...M....G...really???? is that possible.....

I need to dedicate a lot of time to figure my life out....I hope God guides me through it....thank you for your links ).

unknownuser

You do have control - full control of your thoughts and also your life now. You can control who you listen to, who you will be influenced by and what kind of person you want to be. You are in the drivers seat of your life. You are in charge. You have so many choices. You can make that choice and take control over how you feel about yourself.

I pray that you make the right choices and find your way and peace within your soul. Well, we are all rooting for you here! Hang in there.

Thanks...I need to find the balance of what is it that I do, and what is it that is up to God....

Thanks for your prayers they should add flowers icon to this website D...(yup I am gay ) )

unknownuser

Please read the articles in this website....they would be immensly beneficial

www.resurgentislam.com

Thank you Abdul )

unknownuser

Peace nevasheva.

It was a really nice feeling reading your last post.

I am sure you are keeping busy, if you find time browse

http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/the-journey-and-the-questions-continue/

Stay loyal to your creator.
Peace.

Thank you very much for the link )

I just hope that I don't turn out being extremely full of it

God bless.

unknownuser

Can I just ask, as long as you're comfortable with it, where are you currently based? I have spent a relatively large amount of time (considering I am a heterosexual woman) with gay (particularly Muslim) men in many personal and social settings as I have had a number of friends, who were, inadvertently, gay and Muslim. I haven't found my experiences to be the same as yours. Of course, I am not a part of that circle, but I have spent a lot of time within it and I have met some really nice people. After all there's good and bad everywhere.

lol I am now in Canada but I was raised mainly back and forth between egypt and KSA....

How was your friends experience different this I gotta know O.....