Surah : 109 - Al-Kafirun
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I think it is you who misguided loxbox, the poor guy. Are you the one who was studying with him? Or are you the student of brother AlMazhar? hmm &
May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanInstead of criticizing him without any decent reason why don't you try to disprove his translations because I read many of his posts and didn't see anyone succeeding
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I think it is you who misguided loxbox, the poor guy. Are you the one who was studying with him? Or are you the student of brother AlMazhar? hmm &
May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanDoes the mm in your username stand for madam khan ?
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Instead of criticizing him without any decent reason why don't you try to disprove his translations because I read many of his posts and didn't see anyone succeeding
Brother, as he said above in his post that he is depended on Lexicon and in most of his translation, one may believe and accept as is, but why you believe him? What is the proof that what he wrote is right? He should base his understanding of any word or letter based on its other usage in different aayaats.
For example, he wrote waw conjunct particle translated as ?since?. as ?not?.
Can he proof "waw" means "since" in all instances in AlQuraan? I don't think so. And if he claims others to be based on thousand year old translations and following the same what others translated then how come he translated "laa" means "not"? Is he not following the same?
Writing anything is very easy but proving it to be correct is important which I see lacking in his posts.
Anyways, this is my personal understanding about his posts. Everyone is free to believe or disbelieve, agree or disagree, everyone has to answer for his own deeds.
Take care,
mmKhan -
Brother, as he said above in his post that he is depended on Lexicon and in most of his translation, one may believe and accept as is, but why you believe him? What is the proof that what he wrote is right? He should base his understanding of any word or letter based on its other usage in different aayaats.
For example, he wrote waw conjunct particle translated as ?since?. as ?not?.
Can he proof "waw" means "since" in all instances in AlQuraan? I don't think so. And if he claims others to be based on thousand year old translations and following the same what others translated then how come he translated "laa" means "not"? Is he not following the same?
Writing anything is very easy but proving it to be correct is important which I see lacking in his posts.
Anyways, this is my personal understanding about his posts. Everyone is free to believe or disbelieve, agree or disagree, everyone has to answer for his own deeds.
Take care,
mmKhanO my Rabb, learning of the language of your book is hard enough but still doable. But telling your creation the truth is even harder. It appears that I will have to teach them English as well.
If you agree at least this much that "waw" is a conjunct. Then please review below in link at the bottom. Which English words are considered as "conjuncts", and see if you could identify "since" as one of these. And no "waw" would not mean "since" in all instances of Quran, it will depend upon context, as to which context shall be used.
http//grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/conjunctions.htm
Peace
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Salaam,
I know my English is poor but you don't have to teach me cause I am not interested in learning it now. BTW, thanks for the link I may check it later.
See what you wrote http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603980.msg299876#msg299876
How is your translation different from others now except meaning of few words like "Qul", etc. everything else is copied from other sources. If you do the same thing then why criticize others?
And I am seeing you are more dependent on human written sources than me .
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Brother, as he said above in his post that he is depended on Lexicon and in most of his translation, one may believe and accept as is, but why you believe him? What is the proof that what he wrote is right? He should base his understanding of any word or letter based on its other usage in different aayaats.
For example, he wrote waw conjunct particle translated as ?since?. as ?not?.
Can he proof "waw" means "since" in all instances in AlQuraan? I don't think so. And if he claims others to be based on thousand year old translations and following the same what others translated then how come he translated "laa" means "not"? Is he not following the same?
Writing anything is very easy but proving it to be correct is important which I see lacking in his posts.
Anyways, this is my personal understanding about his posts. Everyone is free to believe or disbelieve, agree or disagree, everyone has to answer for his own deeds.
Take care,
mmKhanI believe him because what he says actually makes sense. Lexicon is a man made book about the arabic used in Muhammad's time so who cares who made it? It's more like a dictionary
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I believe him because what he says actually makes sense. Lexicon is a man made book about the arabic used in Muhammad's time so who cares who made it? It's more like a dictionary
Its up to you bro what you like to believe or not to believe. But I strongly believe that AlQuraan/AlKitaab is self dependent stand alone book, which never need any other source to understand it.
We are throwing out Bukhari and co. to understand AlQuraan but bringing in Lexicon to understand AlQuraan. Just think!
May Allah bless you and guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Okay I'm really confused about your translations
Surah 109 1
Think and express, O you lethargic in unwise actions; ones who are hiding sufficient and fulfilling knowledge, due to denial of facts and ingratitude to all benevolence.
Surah 109 2
Here you translate qul as think and express. I can live with that. Then you translate l-kfirna as a few things. I have no idea how you got these translations. I understand that kafir can be translated into one who hide or conceals, but where does "ingratitude to all benevolence" and "lethargic in unwise actions" come in?
Neither I am an object of worship, nor are you worshippers or servants.
Surah 109 3
Since you were not to be worshippers or servants, why would I be an object of worship?
Surah 109 4
Since I am not a worshiper, why do you all became worshiper?
Surah 109 5
Since you were not to be worshippers or servants, why would I be an object of worship?
Okay here's were thing get really weird for me. Verse 2 La= not/no you have it as "since I am not". I don't understand. confused
I translate the first clause as no/not I worship and the second clause "ma tabudna" what you worship. Ma as a pronoun can also be translated as that, as, or is. But "why would"??? You also selectively chose to add servant(s) to your translation to fit your needs. maybe because "why would I become an object of worship or servant (or service)" would make very much since. Nor would god declaring himself not a servant after repeated stating that he is lord or the entire universe. Does your understanding lead you to believe that we DO NOT have to serve God?
In this verse is a lot of repetition so I won't go into each line because so many of the words are repeated. We have ( by my count) eight conjugations of a'budu and through verses 2-5 only five unique words meaning what, you, I, not and, and not respectively. Each verse is short compared to the translation you are providing. I am not denying you hypothesis overall but I don't think that your translations are very forthright.
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Its up to you bro what you like to believe or not to believe. But I strongly believe that AlQuraan/AlKitaab is self dependent stand alone book, which never need any other source to understand it.
We are throwing out Bukhari and co. to understand AlQuraan but bringing in Lexicon to understand AlQuraan. Just think!
May Allah bless you and guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhanNo method has yet been evolved to understand a book of foreign language without lexicon and grammar of that language.
However to cross verify the lexicons, Grand Qur'aan has a unique inbuilt system of highlighting perception and meaning infolded in Arabic Roots and words used therein, defining and elaborating important words, Terms and Concepts by adopting a verbal centrifugal-rotating process, and Segregation process in the sort of thresher.
Brother, do not be perturbed by rather strange rules being devised by bk about Arabic grammar.
Surah 109 2
Neither I am an object of worship, nor are you worshippers or servants.
is a negative particle meaning ?not?
is first person imperfect verb from root with "a dhuma" at second letter of root makes it to mean ?an object of worship?.
has several uses but due context here translated as negative ?nor?
second person imperfect ?you are worshipper or servants?.
How the Verb Imperfect; First Person; Singular; Mood Indicative; Subject pronoun hidden; - Verbal noun, can become and be treated a "Noun" referring ?an object of worship?.
The Verb is transitive. Where is its Object if is negative "nor".
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No method has yet been evolved to understand a book of foreign language without lexicon and grammar of that language.
Thanks for confirming the obvious for ones unfimiliar with the facts.
Surah 109 2
How the Verb Imperfect; First Person; Singular; Mood Indicative; Subject pronoun hidden; - Verbal noun, can become and be treated a "Noun" referring ?an object of worship?.
The Verb is transitive. Where is its Object if is negative "nor".
Thanks again, for pointing out. Let us correct it. It should read as
Surah 109 2
Neither I worship, nor you are worshippers or servants.
Which still does not change the meaning a whole lot. As if this is a message from our Rabb. This is how should it read, shouldn't it? In fact this statement is conveying the Sunna of our Rabb, as to what he does himself. Aren't we suppose to follow our Rabb's Sunna? Didn't prophet started to follow his Rabb's sunna as opposed to his ancestor's following?
Let us join hands to bring the real message to lime light, irrespective of our preexsisting held beliefs.
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No method has yet been evolved to understand a book of foreign language without lexicon and grammar of that language.
However to cross verify the lexicons, Grand Qur'aan has a unique inbuilt system of highlighting perception and meaning infolded in Arabic Roots and words used therein, defining and elaborating important words, Terms and Concepts by adopting a verbal centrifugal-rotating process, and Segregation process in the sort of thresher.
Brother, do not be perturbed by rather strange rules being devised by bk about Arabic grammar.
If you read my previous post I already mentioned that AlQuraan/AlKitaab is self dependent stand alone book. Hence, does not require any outer source specially man made source.
I know it is really hard for many to understand this fact, but just think how is it a book from Allah which is dependent on humans made dictionaries or so? The easy way to understand it is to move out all other sources to understand The Book of Allah and try to understand it by ITSELF, inshaAllah you will see the difference.
BTW, 1092 is not Allah's speech but we have to SAY as said "Qul" in 1091.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
The Verb is transitive. Where is its Object if is negative "nor".
Sorry missed this part. So let us improve our understanding of this verse as follows. These are rules you have pointed out and I agree.
Surah 109 2
I do not worship, why are you worshiping?
Please remember it is a message from our Rabb, if one believes in it as such, not from a human. If one agrees on this much. It can not and should not be translated as.
I will no not worship, what you are worshiping.
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If you read my previous post I already mentioned that AlQuraan/AlKitaab is self dependent stand alone book. Hence, does not require any outer source specially man made source.
If you are an Arab, it sounds perfectly well. But if you are not an Arab, this is simply ridiculous.
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Thanks again, for pointing out. Let us correct it. It should read as
Surah 109 2
Neither I worship, nor you are worshippers or servants.
Which still does not change the meaning a whole lot. As if this is a message from our Rabb. This is how should it read, shouldn't it? In fact this statement is conveying the Sunna of our Rabb, as to what he does himself. Aren't we suppose to follow our Rabb's Sunna? Didn't prophet started to follow his Rabb's sunna as opposed to his ancestor's following?
Let us join hands to bring the real message to lime light, irrespective of our preexsisting held beliefs.
This is again incorrect. Both the verbs are transitive. "Neither I worship" is incomplete sentence lacking meanings. Worship what? "nor you are worshippers or servants" How a verb is translated by a noun or active participle?
Take Maa as Relative Pronoun, the object of Verb---meanings will become complete and understanable.
Verb is Imperfect and in Indicative Mood. It signifies both present and future. Firstly it is present--the point in time of speaking. "I do not worship that which you people worship".
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If you are an Arab, it sounds perfectly well. But if you are not an Arab, this is simply ridiculous.
4913
4913 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.I don't see mentioning of Arabs in this aayat.
6125
6125 So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.Either no mention of Arabs here.
And many many many more aayaats are there. Do not fix understanding of AlQuraan just to the Arabs, Allah made it guidance for the mankind 2185
mmKhan
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Verb is Imperfect and in Indicative Mood. It signifies both present and future. Firstly it is present--the point in time of speaking. "I do not worship that which you people worship".
I knew where you were going Brother. You have not changed a bit. Which is the problem with us Muslims. Not changing from our ancestors ways. That is why I said this and you ignored it too.
Please remember it is a message from our Rabb, if one believes in it as such, not from a human. If one agrees on this much. It can not and should not be translated as.
I will no not worship, what you are worshiping.
I do not know what are you talking about now? After the negative the imperfect retains its general idea of incompleteness and duration.
he went out not knowing. This is a perfectly okay sentence in Arabic. Worship is a verb and it is a noun in it's meaning as well as a concept. I thought you may have changed and may be we could join hands to bring this book to its real meanings. But it seems you will not leave your ancestors path. May still our Rabb bless you with light some day.
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I knew where you were going Brother. You have not changed a bit. Which is the problem with us Muslims. Not changing from our ancestors ways. That is why I said this and you ignored it too.
I do not know what are you talking about now? After the negative the imperfect retains its general idea of incompleteness and duration.
he went out not knowing. This is a perfectly okay sentence in Arabic. Worship is a verb and it is a noun in it's meaning as well as a concept. But I know you will not leave your ancestors path. May still our Rabb bless you with light some day.
When reason and logic is exhausted such comments are generally given.
Why equate Transitive Verb with intransitive verb? In the Ayah both verbs are transitive needing an object to complete the statement. Otherwise it is incomplete and lacking meanings statement. Attend that aspect. We are simply attending the words before us not ancestors path.
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4913
4913 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.I don't see mentioning of Arabs in this aayat.
6125
6125 So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.Either no mention of Arabs here.
And many many many more aayaats are there. Do not fix understanding of AlQuraan just to the Arabs, Allah made it guidance for the mankind 2185
mmKhan
That is not the point. Qur'aan is for humanity, but this too is the fact that it is in Arabic. Remove the translation and then let me know how you understand the Qur'aan without learning Arabic?