Understandin' the Koran
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i really don' get how do people actually understand the koran without knowing the arab tradition? seriously, how?? i mean its so important to learn about the arab tradtion to understand the koran, since the first addressees of the koran were the arabs. so how is it possible to understand the koran without knwoing about the arab tradition?
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Peace be upon you,
The God's message is not geared towards Arab culture, it is for mankind but delivered through a man who was an Arab.
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Salaam Me,
i really don' get how do people actually understand the koran without knowing the arab tradition?
I'm not sure if the quran is a culturally geared decree. It is a set of morals and laws and values applicable to different cultures (perhaps not all).
seriously, how??
I'm not sure how you would assume one must have working knowledge of a culture to which the divine writ was given, not based on, when the divine writ itself is supposedly from God who is, I assume, not of the Arab culture. Culture is a set of values, beliefs, etc that are shared by a people. I'm not sure if quran qualifies as culture, though it can be integrated into culture.
i mean its so important to learn about the arab tradtion to understand the koran, since the first addressees of the koran were the arabs. so how is it possible to understand the koran without knwoing about the arab tradition?
The quran is not based on an Arab tradition, though it is revealed in the Arabic language. I'm not sure that it's possible for you could show me where the divine writ says to look to the Arab tradition to understand it's tenents. However, the quran does ask us to look upon the traditions and ways of men to verify it's claims .
Joe
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Peace be with you (& Me,
Welcome to the Forum )
Other than what Joe and idolfree said, I'd just like to add God's sunna/way has nothing to do with cultures and tradition.
O mankind, advice has come to you from your Lord and a remedy for what is in the chests, and a guidance and mercy for the believers.
Say ?By God?s grace and His mercy.? For that let them rejoice, that is better than all that they gather. -
Me
i really don' get how do people actually understand the koran without knowing the arab tradition? seriously, how?
Quran or any revelation is sent down only upon a fallen people through a Messenger chosen from amongst them to change their tradition and ways towards the Path and Tradition of Allah, that shall be universal. If ever Allah chose the people of mecca for delivering the Quran, it is because He found the arabs the most deviated from the truth - amongst the people of the rest of the world.
drfazl
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Quran or any revelation is sent down only upon a fallen people through a Messenger chosen from amongst them to change their tradition and ways towards the Path and Tradition of Allah, that shall be universal. If ever Allah chose the people of mecca for delivering the Quran, it is because He found the arabs the most deviated from the truth - amongst the people of the rest of the world.
drfazl
!!!???
Then what is your explanation of the Ayah ?
Taj
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Taj
Then what is your explanation of the Ayah ?
Peace Taj, Now you read the answer given within in the brackets.
003.110
Ye (Those who have been following this Book of Guidance ie., The People of The Book) are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.drfazl
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Taj
Then what is your explanation of the Ayah ?
Peace Taj, Now you read the answer given within in the brackets.
003.110
Ye (Those who have been following this Book of Guidance ie., The People of The Book) are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.drfazl
The translation is incorrect, plus, the text in red is not there in the Ayah in the Quran, from where did you bring it? Can you not see that it contradicts the last part of your translation, If only the People of the Book had faith, that you have provided?
Taj
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Salaam Taj,
I'm not sure if one can rightly associate ayat 3110 with the people of the rasool Allah. We are told how his people wronged their feminine aspects , are in the wrong due to ignorance , deride the character of the rasool , and there are others. This nation rasied up, is that of the body of muslimeen as far as I am aware.
Joe
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Salaam Joe,
I'm not sure if one can rightly associate ayat 3110 with the people of the rasool Allah. We are told how his people wronged their feminine aspects , are in the wrong due to ignorance , deride the character of the rasool , and there are others. This nation rasied up, is that of the body of muslimeen as far as I am aware.
I am very surprised that you are bringing those Ayat to support your opinion!
What does" we are told" mean? The Ayat wonder about the guilt the girl was buried alive for. What has that got to do with the Arabs? Do you follow History or do you follow the Quran? Where in the Quran do you find that it was the Arabs who were responsible for that? Please show me!
What I find in the Quran is that women had so much freedom. There was no dress code. They dressed the way they liked, with their heads carelessly covered and their cleavage all shown, not to mention their fancy accessories?, clearly there was no noticeable restriction. And if you follow History, it would tell you that women were very selective in choosing the right men to have their children from! They used to call it Marriage shopping! Also don?t forget the example of Khadijah, The wife of Prophet Muhammad. She was a successful business woman,,,, something like the career women in the modern West now!The Ayat speak of A rasool who was sent to the unlettered...
Who was that rasool? There is no name there!
And the same goes in Ayat . Those Ayat can be applied to any Messenger. Every Messenger faced the same reaction from his people.
Now in the Ayah , Allah uses the same language of a nation and directly speaks to them describing them as the best nation that was brought out to mankind, in the past tense, not the present tense as most of the translations mistakenly report. "You were the best nation that was brought out to mankind,..? So what does "You were" means to you? What is the time meant here? To me, it looks clearly like "prior". If you care to study History then you will see that the Arabs were the best nation in the neighborhood. They never were invaders or killers They were very well organized in their tribal system. They were people of trade and peace. As a matter of fact the circumstances and the situation in the Arab land were being made ready and prepared to receive a new Messenger.Please excuse any typo mistakes, because I wrote this post in a little bit of a hurry!
Taj
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Salaam Taj,
Thank you. Your post has clearly shown how the communities of the envoys were in the same boat which is why the envoys were sent to them. I know those ayaat are applicable to any messenger and any community, because these are universal. So again, I ask you how do you determine that the community of the Arabs were spoken of in ayat 3110 if an envoy was sent to them? Let's use your reasoning, 'Arab' is not even mentioned in that ayat!
Joe
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PEACE NABI
I'm not sure if the quran is a culturally geared decree. It is a set of morals and laws and values applicable to different cultures (perhaps not all).
I think to some degree it is culturally geared, however, that doesn't stop it from being at the same time applicable to all cultures, given that, it was sent for the guidance of mankind. Why do you say..."perhaps not all"? What culture could be exempt from its morals and laws and values ?
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Salaam Joe,
I ask you how do you determine that the community of the Arabs were spoken of in ayat 3110 if an envoy was sent to them? Let's use your reasoning, 'Arab' is not even mentioned in that ayat!
I would believe that the people of Muhammad were the nation meant in Ayah basically for the fact that Allah speaks/spoke directly to and with the same language (Arabic) of that nation that was around Prophet Muhammad and was tuned in to him. Prophet Muhammad was reciting those Ayat that pointed to obviosly some gathering around him saying "You" or "Ye". Now you tell me, what was that nation that Allah praised, and spoke directly to in clear Arabic tongue, pointing "You" or "Ye" while Muhammad recited Ayah ? Allah DOES NOT here speak ABOUT some other nation. Allah speaks here TO that nation ITSELF, in its own tongue REMINDING it of what it used to be before, ( before what?). There is a Message here.
Allah uses the same language of those people who were listening to that recitaion, and directly speaks to them describing them as the best nation that was brought out to mankind. Imagine a class in a school and the teacher would go " You were the best people that have ever come to this school." Who do you think those people that the teacher spoke to were? The teacher was clearly not talking about some people who happen to be in a remote place. He was talking to the people and about them, those people who were present in front of him in the class!
My question is Why was the praise said in the past tense? What has happened to that nation? What changed it? It was admiringly the best until.....
I also don't know why all the translations that I have seen report it in the present and not the past tense! Why would the translators change the words of Allah!?So anyway, if that nation was not Quraish or the people who were around Prophet Muhammad(P&PBUH) and spoke his very own language, then what was that nation, since the People of the Book were clearly excluded?
And of course you do know about the other Ayat that are addressed especially to the people around Prophet Muhammad.
Taj
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Salaam Taj,
I'm not sure I can grasp what you are seeing. What I see is a nation, a people whom the envoy is around for a period of time and another nation, not necessarily bound in cultural mores or race. In ayat 3110 we are referred to something that this nation is about (call for good, denounce evil, believe in Allah), which to me is representative of the muslimeen , not a nation of arabs or the people of the rasool who are not all in the right.
Joe
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Peace Taj and Nabi
YOU WERE the best COMMUNITY raised for mankind YOU ENJOIN WHAT IS RIGHT AND FORBID WHAT IS WRONG and YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH. If only the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK had BELIEVED, it was best for them; AMONG THEM are BELIEVERS but MOST OF THEM are perverted transgressors. 3110
Those who WERE THE BEST COMMUNITY enjoined what is RIGHT and forbid what is WRONG
WHO ENJOINED THE RIGHT AND FORBID THE WRONG and who BELIEVED in Allah
Not all of them are alike of the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK are a COMMUNITY (UMMAH) that stand (for the right); they rehearse the signs of Allah all night long and then prostrate themselves in adoration. 3113
They BELIEVE IN ALLAH and the Last Day; they ENJOIN WHAT IS RIGHT AND FORBID WHAT IS WRONG and they (hasten in emulation) in (all) good works; they are in the RANKS of the RIGHTEOUS. 3114
IT WAS THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK (CHILDREN OF ISRAEL) WHO ENJOINED THE RIGHT AND FORBID THE WRONG AND BELIEVED IN ALLAH.
Just TEN verses before, Allah commands the followers of the prophet to ENJOIN WHAT IS RIGHT AND FORBID WHAT IS WRONG
And let there be of you a COMMUNITY (UMMAH) inviting to all that is good ENJOINING WHAT IS RIGHT AND FORBIDDING WHAT IS WRONG. And it is they who are the successful. 3104
SO IT WAS THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK (CHILDREN OF ISRAEL) THAT WAS THE BEST COMMUNITY SENT FORTH FOR THE MANKIND AND THEY ENJOINED WHAT IS RIGHT AND FORBID WHAT IS WRONG AND THEY BELIEVED IN ALLAH.
WHY THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK (CHILDREN OF ISRAEL) WERE THE BEST AND NOT ARE THE BEST. WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?
Those were some of the prophets on whom Allah did bestow His Grace of the posterity of Adam and of those whom We carried (in the Ark) with Noah and of the posterity of Abraham and ISRAEL of those whom We GUIDED and CHOSE; whenever the Signs of (Allah) Most Gracious were rehearsed to them they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tears. 1958
But after them there followed a posterity who missed (FAILED TO MEET) the (COMMITMENTS) prayers and followed after lusts soon then will they face Destruction 1959
AFTER THE PASSING AWAY OF THE GUIDED AND THE CHOSEN (CHILDREN OF ISRAEL) THEIR SUCCESSORS FAILED IN THEIR COMMITMENTS AND FOLLOWED THEIR OWN LUST.
And REMEMBER ye said "O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food (always); so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth its pot-herbs and cucumbers its garlic lentils and onions." He said "will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town and ye shall find what ye want!" They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah. This, because THEY WENT ON REJECTING THE SIGNS OF ALLAH AND SLAYING HIS MESSENGERS without just cause. This, because they REBELLED and went on transgressing. 261
And REMEMBER We took your COVENANT (to this effect) shed no blood amongst you nor turn out your own people from your homes; and this ye solemnly ratified and to this ye can bear witness. 284
After this it is ye the SAME PEOPLE who SLAY among yourselves and BANISH a party of you from their HOMES; assist (their enemies) against them in guilt and rancor; and if they come to you as captives ye ransom them though it was not lawful for you to banish them. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in and do ye reject the rest? But what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life? and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. 285
THERE ARE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCES IN THE ABOVE VERSES FOR (TAJ) YOU TO KNOW WHY THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK (CHILDREN OF ISRAEL) ARE NOT THE BEST
Thus have We made you an UMMAH justly balanced that ye might be WITNESSES against the MANKIND and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qiblah to which thou wast used only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (from the faith). Indeed it was (a change) momentous except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people most surely full of kindness Most Merciful. 2143
The verse is 3110 is ADDRESSED to the BELIEVERS around the prophet and not to all ARABS.
How the WHOLE OF ARABS could ever become WITNESSES against ALL MANKIND?
IT IS THE BELIEVERS (MUSLIMS) SPREAD AROUND THE WORLD, WHO WILL BE WITNESSES AGAINST ALL MANKIND.
Thanks