Authenticating Quran
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First Generation
571-632 Muhammad
599-661 Ali (the 4. khalif)
602-680 Muawiyah
607-697 Jabir ibn Abd-Allah (he might be the latest died sahaba, as i could found)
? -725(?) Amr ibn vassal (mentioned as the last sahaba but i am not sure when he died )Second/Third Generation
699-767 Ab anfa
711-795 Malik ibn Anas
767-820 Al-Shafi?i
780-855 Ahmad ibn HanbalHadith authors
810-870 al-Bukhari
817-889 Abu Dawud
821-875 Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj
824-892 Tirmidhi
824-887 Ibn Majah
830-916 Al-Nasa'i
........................................................(source collected from wikipedia)If you notice that there is a gap for nearly 200 years after the first genereation to the Hadith era...
And there are no reliable sources from the first generation. Especially early khalifs didn't give permission for hadith... And 200 years past from the first generation then there was a distinguished hadith eraBecause of the fact, i can't rely on these source. I don't deny all of them but my master source is Quran. And if there is an antinomy between quran and hadith, i don't care this kind of hadith...
May Allah guide all of us.
Peace. -
not all hadith content is bad, not all Quran content is understood...
The fact of the matter is that they have contradicted for the reason that they could not comprehend/ encompass the knowledge contained in it, and its ultimate objective perception has not yet come to them . In the same manner people who were before their times had contradicted. Therefore/for reason you see how was the conclusion/end result of the criminally guilty people.
1031-45
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The manner in which it described the human psyche, the universe, so on. It is a perfectly accurate description of reality and it shows the thinking behind a goodly person compared to those who follow their desires.
I was always getting confused by hadeeth and I could see how ahadeeth depended very hard on each other to even stand up. The quran however had this untouchable sense to it, as it stands on its own just fine. It is also written from a point of view that seems to see it from all sides of the story.
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Salaam,
Personally, most of the Qur'aan satisfies my idea of humanity. I believe that Qur'aanic commandments and prohibitions, if implemented properly, will bring prosperity and justice to mankind. The Qur'aan is logical and makes sense - it does not ask the believers to merely have faith in God, but rather bring forth questions and witness what surrounds you to come to conclusion. It encourages the believers to strive for righteous deeds in addition to believing in God. It makes perfect sense for me - the God in Qur'aan is not self-centered God who demands to be worshiped all the time, but God who loves His creations hence why He commands us to establish just system that serves mankind.
Some hadiths, on the other hand, do not make sense for me. Many are unjust, and I cannot find it in my heart to believe that God who is supposed to be the Most Just and the Most Compassionate will ever reveal such system.
Anyhow, when I was a traditionalist, the hadiths made me care more about my own salvation (hence why I prayed, fasted, gave zakat etc, essentially to get more rewards). Whereas with the Qur'aan, it makes everything come natural. Just be. No thoughts on the rewards, and the heaven. It makes the focus more on creating 'paradise' on earth, rather than getting to afterlife paradise if that makes sense.
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Anyhow, when I was a traditionalist, the hadiths made me care more about my own salvation (hence why I prayed, fasted, gave zakat etc, essentially to get more rewards). Whereas with the Qur'aan, it makes everything come natural. Just be. No thoughts on the rewards, and the heaven. It makes the focus more on creating 'paradise' on earth, rather than getting to afterlife paradise if that makes sense.
All deliberate acts are done for a predetermined purpose and in the hope to achieve it.
And you people hasten/take the lead towards forgiveness from your Sustainer Lord and the Paradise as wide as the width of the Earth and the skies ; this has been made for the abode of those who endeavour for ultimate success remaining mindful and cautious and avoid unrestrained conduct.
And you people make yourselves hasten/take the lead towards forgiveness from your Sustainer Lord and the Paradise as wide as/like the width of the Earth and the skies ; this Paradise has been made for the abode of those who believed in Allah and His Messengers. This is the grace and blessing of Allah, He grants it to one whom He wills. And Allah is the possessor of Infinite Bounty.
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Seekingyou
I?m not trying to compare hadith with Quran. People resort back to the Quran when reading sunnah or anything else however what makes YOU follow Quran? what makes you think its authenticHann
So hadith has a weak leg attached to its ?authentic dating?, what about Quran?Is the earlier the preservation the more comforting for truthfulness? what is the earliest preservation? The recording might be accurate but does that mean Quran is authentic to you? Why believe in it?
Mazhar
so much people misunderstand Quran and contradict the understanding.I?m not asking for people to say hadith is weak so quran is best. What makes quran best. What?s your view, if you have one.
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Hann
So hadith has a weak leg attached to its ?authentic dating?, what about Quran?Is the earlier the preservation the more comforting for truthfulness? what is the earliest preservation? The recording might be accurate but does that mean Quran is authentic to you? Why believe in it?
Dear SarahY,
We can find some early Quran manuscripts. And also in a large of different area, there's no difference between quran manuscripts. You could guess the reliability of manuscripts or hadith(such as storical parol news).
In my opinion, the earliest preservation is high proximity rate of The Prophet's teachings. Nevertheless, there can be non-clear/misunderstood teachings, but relibility has a high proximity rate of The Prophet's teachings...
Quran and other Books teach us a theory of life being and death. And there's no alternative legitimate theory for afterdeath. That's why i believe in it.
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Salam
I'm curious esp for those who were traditionalists and reject ahadith. what is it that made you accept Quran. what makes you think it is more authentic than ahadith? or less questionable
Salam SarahY,
So far, I can reconcile many of the phenomenons that I see around me with this Holy Book.
I haven't read any other Holy Books since I haven't got the chance to learn the language of origin.
I don't feel content to read just the translation of HBs, and I haven't finished understanding the whole of AQ to go to the next HB. One at a time i guess.
But I do set a goal to learn them in the future when I have enough resources to accomplish the endeavor..How about yourself?
Are you ex-Sunni?peace,
Johan -
Yes it is content that makes me accept the Qur'an as God given.
Hadith is not a unity. It is several collections of haphazard compilations of whatever. In that, there si room for the bad, the good and the ugly, and there are some very inspired onesm which may be the Prophet's utteranes or somebody else inspired talk. That as well stands on its content, but nobody is telling us it is God's word. The Qur'an does say that about itself. I see nothing that negates that.
I do not care, whether they compiled at this or that time, or whther it came down to us through this or that means. What if the content was shit what do I care whether it had superfabulous handers down?
Salaam
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Hann
Fair enough however i just want to comment on the manuscripts.
there is some difference in manuscripts, how about hafs and warsh?
Also the scripts of Arabic have developed/changed over time.Johan
I guess it?s a time consuming task to read Holy books. Good luck with your goali was brought up as a muslim with sunni influence. I consider myself a muslim. I?ve studied hadith at length and my position of it is not in total rejection. I guess from the outskirt of it, reading ridiculous claims and taking tokenistic information, it can seem strange that one might except some claims or find some truths. Thing is i don?t view hadith as holy guidance nor that it is infallible.
As for my belief in Quran, as many have said content, it resonates with my heart. That being said I don?t know every single verse by heart or the meanings of everything in it. It?s a life long journey, plus being brought up muslim has made me bias to Quran, i don?t really have a strong interest or inclination to studying other religions. I have belief in Quran partly which is blind faith partly through study, i feel most certain with it than anything else.
Huruf
yeh i guess the compilations of hadith is not clean cut. hadith isn?t just necessarily collections of sayings, we inherit practises too. but you?re right the method of collection is not as important to content.
True hadith never claims it is God?s word, Not sure where the Quran says that about itself??? But i?m sure it says it has no doubt it in 22
Salam
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Salam SarahY,
So far, I can reconcile many of the phenomenons that I see around me with this Holy Book.
I haven't read any other Holy Books since I haven't got the chance to learn the language of origin.
I don't feel content to read just the translation of HBs, and I haven't finished understanding the whole of AQ to go to the next HB. One at a time i guess.
But I do set a goal to learn them in the future when I have enough resources to accomplish the endeavor..How about yourself?
Are you ex-Sunni?peace,
JohanSalaam,
When that day arrives please let me know, I have a lot of questions to ask
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Hann
Fair enough however i just want to comment on the manuscripts.
there is some difference in manuscripts, how about hafs and warsh?
Also the scripts of Arabic have developed/changed over time.Yes, right. But "The Quran" is not only a written book. At first, it's just a memorized doctrine.
So if you give me a different recited(kiraat) and different meaning-recited Quran example, then i can say this The Sacred one is not an alphabet nor a sound. The Sacred one is doctrine/meaning."....He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded" 1690
Peace.