A few reasons why I questioned traditional Islam
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Salaam Taj,
Exactly, it's not understandable, so I wonder how come you spoke in such a way?
And not just Hajj! They do Ssalatt and Ssiyamm and charity for the Dead. I don't fully understand this but if you love someone and think that he/she didn't do his/her full duties you would want to help to spare them any possible punishment,
Joe
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I just wanted to add a few more
When I was introduced to traditional Islam, I learned that Christianity and other religions that worshipped statues were wrong, because of idol worship. Basically, you couldn't equate an inanimate object with a "god" or a "saint" or a "soul" because if you destroyed the object, you'd be destroying whatever you believed to inhabit it. Therefore, it was foolish to believe that statues, crucifixes, etc held "gods" or "souls" OK... I was able to believe that; it made perfect sense.
Then I learned about the Hajj and how Muslims walk around a STATUE representing the DEVIL and throw stones at it. I asked, what was the point of this? The devil himself was not actually inhabiting the statue. Why bother wasting your energy and effort (and an expensive round-trip ticket) to do this??? I was told that "we" believe that the devil is in the stone (what a stupid devil) and by casting stones, we are casting the devil away. That in itself sounded like one of the stupidest things I'd ever heard. By this time, it was getting hard to remain a "traditional" Muslim without rolling my eyes constantly.
Another thing I learned about traditional Muslims, is that they tend to be the most "holier-than-thou" people I've ever encountered, and I am including in-laws and friends that I am close to. For instance, if they see a woman not wearing a hijab, they insult her and jump to outrageous conclusions. Like, "maybe she is looking for a man" or "maybe she wants to look pretty for the public" and nonsense like that. Or some will say "I prayed 5 times today and I read from the Quran" like it's supposed to earn you respect. I feel, if you do that, that's wonderful, but why tell everyone about it? What you do should be between you and God. Just like a woman who chooses not to wear hijab (like me) That is between the individual and God.
Salam... more to come.
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Peace raindrop,
I hope we can help you here a little bit to improve your image about muslims.
Faith comes from your heart. And I believe either you have it or not. And nobody can force you , at least nobody should try to do so. I disagree absolutely with your friends talking bad about unveiled women etc.
As Arabic is a wonderful language it is really worth learning it. And I think it is true that it brings you closer to Islam. Which doesnt mean at all that you cant be close to God or Islam if you don`t know it. I have lots of friends who are strong believers without knowing Arabic. But you get an better idear of the fascination of Al Quran. But if you feel uncomfortable praying in arabic, then pray in english there?s no problem.Sometimes your first imprssions are right. Some things is worth to talk about it again with other muslims who have other arguments than your traditionel friends. Many things in Islam don`t make sense to us at the first sight and we need time and help and spirituel help. Find it out by yourself and try to be open.
Bye
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Salaam Joe,
You cannot work for others in such ways. How's about I hurt someone for you without your consent? Does that even make sense?
Now I get what you mean, so let me tell you. If you do something bad, Allah of course will not accept it, let alone forward it to others. Not anything you do and intend to others Allah will accept. The situation is conditioned. Any bad behavior you do, will turn back on you, certainly. But if you ask Allah in a sincere Duaa'a for your parents, (may Allah give them a long and healthy life), Allah will forward it's reward to them, and not just for your parents but you can also ask to whoever you wish, , , , . The reward of your good-intended deed will have to reach them, that is what those Ayat promise.
The fact that someone is actually asking Allah to watch over his dead or living parents, this means that those parents are deserving enough of the reward, because if they weren't, you wouldn't see anyone asking Allah to help them anyway!Taj
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Salaam Raindrop,
Then I learned about the Hajj and how Muslims walk around a STATUE representing the DEVIL and throw stones at it. I asked, what was the point of this? The devil himself was not actually inhabiting the statue. Why bother wasting your energy and effort (and an expensive round-trip ticket) to do this??? I was told that "we" believe that the devil is in the stone (what a stupid devil) and by casting stones, we are casting the devil away.
And just think of how many people get crushed in the unbelievable crowd. Imagine if all mankind were Muslims and intended to go to Hajj at one particular year!? How much can Mecca take?
Another thing I learned about traditional Muslims, is that they tend to be the most "holier-than-thou" people I've ever encountered, and I am including in-laws and friends that I am close to. For instance, if they see a woman not wearing a hijab, they insult her and jump to outrageous conclusions. Like, "maybe she is looking for a man" or "maybe she wants to look pretty for the public" and nonsense like that.
Those offenders don't know what manners are. Unfortunately, there are so many of them.Or some will say "I prayed 5 times today and I read from the Quran" like it's supposed to earn you respect. I feel, if you do that, that's wonderful, but why tell everyone about it? What you do should be between you and God. Just like a woman who chooses not to wear hijab (like me) That is between the individual and God.
There is a Hadeeth that says "The best of worship is the most hidden."
Those people don't even follow a Hadeeth, just their sick ego! You can't believe the competition here, over the times that people go to Hajj or Omrah. People just want to show of, over anything, everything, just to see themselves above others. If I were you I would stick to Christianity!Taj
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Peace All,
Here's a tidbit to drop on the traditionalists.
There are currently 1.2 billion Muslims in the world.
Most of these will not live past 100 years.
The capacity for "Hajj" is 2-3 million per year.
Multiplied by 100 this mean only 200-300 million will get to perform "Hajj" in the next hundred years.That leaves 900 million to 1 billion Muslims, roughly 3/4 of the population, who cannot possibly make it to Hajj.
hmmmm....
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peace All,
Basically, you couldn't equate an inanimate object with a "god" or a "saint" or a "soul" because if you destroyed the object, you'd be destroying whatever you believed to inhabit it. Therefore, it was foolish to believe that statues, crucifixes, etc held "gods" or "souls"
You may find it interesting to research the history of the kabba and find out how many times it has been destroyed and re-built, expanded, and altered. Its not even a perfect/proper cube, as some sites state, its cuboid (i.e. cube-like).
The reward of your good-intended deed will have to reach them, that is what those Ayat promise.
It may reach, but what do the ayatin/signs say about acceptance?
Here's a tidbit to drop on the traditionalists.
There are currently 1.2 billion Muslims in the world.
Most of these will not live past 100 years.
The capacity for "Hajj" is 2-3 million per year.
Multiplied by 100 this mean only 200-300 million will get to perform "Hajj" in the next hundred years.That leaves 900 million to 1 billion Muslims, roughly 3/4 of the population, who cannot possibly make it to Hajj.
Nice point.
Wakas
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Salaam all for this most interesting discussion...
Tonight at taraveeh prayers it struck me that there is something fundamentally selfish within Islam.
My insight went like this. Athough I work hard in this life to provide for my wife and children all the spiritual development I undertake is soley for my own benefit since no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another (6164). What if I get to janna and find all my loved ones have been sent to the fire? My own efforts cannot help them - thus they are soley for my own benefit. This made me think that Islamic worship has a "selfish" dimension to it....
And now I come home, check free-minds and find this convo on the role of duas in full swing. God is merciful.
Thank you and salaam
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Salaam Tay n all,
That leaves 900 million to 1 billion Muslims, roughly 3/4 of the population, who cannot possibly make it to Hajj.
And thats assuming that the muslim population doesnt grow in the next 100 years! wink
Okay I'm getting confused with 'Taj' and 'Tay' on the same thread... just kidding. lol
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2186
And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.
Peace upon all,
I don't think we can do anything for the deads. But on the other hand, we can be of help for those still alive.
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Why isn't it crystal clear to the average Muslim, I wonder? To me, it's as plain as day.
The "imam" at our mosque on the last day of Ramadan in his begging appeal to God asks God to spare us from the wrath of Muhammed on the Day of Judgement. While hearing this I said to myself, I hope God shows this dude that Day how wrong he was! For God's sake, he is asking God to make sure we do good things so that Muahmmed is pleased with us (what about pleasing someone called umh....GOD?)
I am sick and tired of this idol worship that happens in our community and the sad part is that these "Quarn-alone" (or true believers) are like only 10% of the total Muslim population). Its pathetic to see this, but then every good thing that God sent was eventually made bad (except by the good, which were, are and will always be so few).
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Why isn't it crystal clear to the average Muslim, I wonder? To me, it's as plain as day.
Because they don't read the Quran. They prefer to keep it up on a high shelf where only father can reach it.
However, their Bukhari books are well worn and used often. -
Because they don't read the Quran. They prefer to keep it up on a high shelf where only father can reach it.
However, their Bukhari books are well worn and used often.Yup, the muslims just had the quran in their pockets for 1400 years. Then free-minds.org showed up and found the true meaning of the quran.
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And Ansar continues to be father of the flame.
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Salaam idolfree1,
Wonder if Ansar ever checked the "free-minds.org" Memberlist?... Do you think he'll be surprised to find his name on?
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Salaam Zenje,
Thanks for the nice welcome back. Yes we got hit hard by one of the worst hurricanes in decades here and we're all trying to pick up the pieces. Alhamdulillah I was blessed by God thruout the storm and afterwards.
Pensacola will return to a state of normalcy soon, I hope.
