Was Ramadan called ramadan before the quran was revealed???
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I am trying to understand if the lunar calander was already set in place, the "Islamic" names for the months were named and who followed it? To my understanding the Islamic calender started in Mohamads time right?
So when God said "fast for Ramadan", had the lunar calender already begun? And to my understanding, Ramadan is the month the Quran was revealed, but I thought it was revealed in parts? No?
Am I understanding this correctly?....God created the lunar months for Islam? or why do muslims follow a lunar calender? And why isn't any other lunar month mentioned, or if it is, where are the verses?
I'm not trying to challenge anything, just I want answers. I feel sometimes that the quran was not preserved and there are missing verses or rearanged, even altered to fit who ever pieced it together. I hope I'm wrong.I really just want answers because this wil be my first Ramadan fasting, and I want to make sure it was prescribed by God and not a person.
Salam
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I am trying to understand if the lunar calander was already set in place, the "Islamic" names for the months were named and who followed it? To my understanding the Islamic calender started in Mohamads time right?
So when God said "fast for Ramadan", had the lunar calender already begun? And to my understanding, Ramadan is the month the Quran was revealed, but I thought it was revealed in parts? No?
Am I understanding this correctly?....God created the lunar months for Islam? or why do muslims follow a lunar calender? And why isn't any other lunar month mentioned, or if it is, where are the verses?
I'm not trying to challenge anything, just I want answers. I feel sometimes that the quran was not preserved and there are missing verses or rearanged, even altered to fit who ever pieced it together. I hope I'm wrong.I really just want answers because this wil be my first Ramadan fasting, and I want to make sure it was prescribed by God and not a person.
Salam
Salaam,
Please check 936, counting is already given, names are not mentioned. Do you need names also? But why? Every language has their own names for months and days, so is counting not enough?
mmKhan
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My main question is....was the lunar calender set in place with the month named Ramadan? And it is refered to as the "islamic" calender. I just want to understand how God would say fast in Ramadan and assume everyone knew what he was talking about.
I read 936 and yes it says 12 months, but either one, lunar and solar have 12 months, so it's not really answering my question.I'm not challenging, but here in Free Minds is the place where we can ask questions and get answers (hopfully), and try to understand the Quran better, right? So for me it's really important that I understand that I am fasting on Gods command. I know the quran says fast, but I need more than that to make sure it wasn't added or altered and it really means a month called Ramadan.
Salam
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I think your questions are really valid, and I do not beleive in the way that Islam is "marketed" as being a purely physical and sex control system, no benefit to the soul what so ever.
All the arguments that the ritual inheritors comes up with are valid only for specific geographical and historical conditions.Lunar calendar is just used for ritualistic events, can not be used for agriculture or even to celebrate a simple birthday.
It is said that the names of the months were in existence before Mohamed time, which raises the question of the actual Hijri calendar and it's validity in terms of when the counting has started.Let us be clear on this.. if Ramadan is related to food it would have been mentioned in previous scriptures, since the Quran tells us that the same command was issued for those before Mohamed, that is .. Issa, Moussa, etc...
If you look at the occurrence of the word Siam as it appears in the Quran, see if it has to do with not eating or not drinking
best regards
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Peace foralgerian.
Is food not mentioned in 2187?
Permitted for you intimacy/ sexual intercourse with your wives during the nights of fasting. They are the keepers of your secrets, and you are the keepers of their secrets. GOD knew that you used to betray your souls, and He has redeemed you, and has pardoned you. Henceforth, you may have intimacy/intercourse with them, seeking what GOD has permitted for you. You may eat and drink until the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn. Then, you shall fast until Evening/ sunset. Intimacy/Sexual intercourse is prohibited if you decide to retreat to the masjid /sanctuary. These are GOD's laws; you shall not transgress them. GOD thus clarifies His revelations for the people, that they may attain salvation. ?
There is eat and drink mentioned?
Or how do you see it?
Peace. -
Peace mmkhan.
You made no mention of the " White thread" and the "Dark thread" in your explanation?
Peace.
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Peace mmkhan.
You made no mention of the " White thread" and the "Dark thread" in your explanation?
Peace.
Salaam bro GL,
It shows the time for starting of Saum and ending it when it is dark . When you able to differentiate between white thread and black threat FROM FAJR, your time start for Saum.
mmKhan
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Peace mmkhan.
Thank you.
I agree with one thing, abstaining from talking to others stops you from from getting yourself in trouble.I personally try to abstain from all three, food, talk( especially vain talk) and intimacy when I fast. Food and intimacy are not the problem. Talking is really hard to abstain from.
Peace. -
Peace mmkhan.
Thank you.
I agree with one thing, abstaining from talking to others stops you from from getting yourself in trouble.I personally try to abstain from all three, food, talk( especially vain talk) and intimacy when I fast. Food and intimacy are not the problem. Talking is really hard to abstain from.
Peace.Peace GL,
You are welcome.
mmKhan
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Salam Imanajib,
You are correct that "Ramadhan" would have been a known month to the people of the Book before the Quran (especially that the Quran speaks about the change which forbids sexual intercource during days of fasting).
If you do a search on the word by breaking it up into its vowels "Rama" & "Dan", you will find it has Hebrew meaning to it
Rama = Supreme
Dan = JudgeMonth of "Supreme Judgement".
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Thank you Layth!
I think that Muslims and Christians should always look in to the Torah to understand the basis and fundamentals, and only then venture to other "religious" versions
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You are correct that "Ramadhan" would have been a known month to the people of the Book before the Quran (especially that the Quran speaks about the change which forbids sexual intercource during days of fasting).
If you do a search on the word by breaking it up into its vowels "Rama" & "Dan", you will find it has Hebrew meaning to it
Rama = Supreme
Dan = Judge
Month of "Supreme Judgement".As we all know, all Semitic languages are based on the root system. In Arabic the word "ramadan" comes from the root "rmd". The "an" is simply an intensification that is common in many Arabic words like "furqan", "sultan", etc. We can't haphazardly break up words and try to fit them with other languages. Using your logic, Macaroni can be broken into Maca and Roni and one can then claim that it was invented in Maca by a guy named Roni
Peace,
Ayman
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I am trying to understand if the lunar calander was already set in place, the "Islamic" names for the months were named and who followed it? To my understanding the Islamic calender started in Mohamads time right?
So when God said "fast for Ramadan", had the lunar calender already begun? And to my understanding, Ramadan is the month the Quran was revealed, but I thought it was revealed in parts? No?
Am I understanding this correctly?....God created the lunar months for Islam? or why do muslims follow a lunar calender? And why isn't any other lunar month mentioned, or if it is, where are the verses?
I'm not trying to challenge anything, just I want answers. I feel sometimes that the quran was not preserved and there are missing verses or rearanged, even altered to fit who ever pieced it together. I hope I'm wrong.I really just want answers because this wil be my first Ramadan fasting, and I want to make sure it was prescribed by God and not a person.
Salam
Salam Imanajib,
have you read member Ayman's writings? You can find it herehttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg34302#msg34302
I think it will answer most of your questions.
Now I follow the luni-solar calendar, and I found it's more quranic than the other calendars.
For the first time, I thought that the luni solar calendar was too complicated to be understood, until I realize that the traditional Balinese Hindu farmer use the same calendar for agriculture and for their spiritual life.
http//www.kalenderbali.org/purnamatilem.php
Note Purnama kasa means 'first full moon of the year' and its occurred right after summer solstice (3rd july, 2012)
You may also find that ancient Greek and jews using these calendar pattern. They also knew about the 19 years cycle, which is I believe the fundamental thing which described in 7431.
7429 A signal <lawwatun> to human beings.
7430 Upon it is nineteen.
7431 And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be malaika; and We did not make their count (of time period) <iddatahum> except as a test for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Book would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Book and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say "What did God mean with an example such as this?" It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know the soldiers of your Lord except He; and it is but a reminder for human beings.
The nineteen in 7430 is not the amount of guardians of fire, since the verse clearly says that it will be a test for the rejecters and would increase the believer and people of the book's faith.
It doesn't make any sense if we have to go to the hell just to witness the number of malaika to increase our faith. So, it must be something that we could observed during the life time.
And I found that the verse also mention about the people of the book. Yes, they knew about it.
http//www.revelationsofthebible.com/19YearTimeCycle.htm
So I have no doubt that the calendar must be based on Luni-Solar, with not-counted 13th month every two or three year, which will appears 7 times in 19 years cycle.
In astronomy and calendar studies, the Metonic cycle or Enneadecaeteris (from Greek words for nineteen years) is a period of very close to 19 years which is remarkable for being very nearly a common multiple of the solar year and the synodic (lunar) month.
peace
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You may also find that ancient Greek and jews using these calendar pattern. They also knew about the 19 years cycle, which is I believe the fundamental thing which described in 7431.
7429 A signal <lawwatun> to human beings.
7430 Upon it is nineteen.
7431 And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be malaika; and We did not make their count (of time period) <iddatahum> except as a test for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Book would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Book and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say "What did God mean with an example such as this?" It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know the soldiers of your Lord except He; and it is but a reminder for human beings.
The nineteen in 7430 is not the amount of guardians of fire, since the verse clearly says that it will be a test for the rejecters and would increase the believer and people of the book's faith.
It doesn't make any sense if we have to go to the hell just to witness the number of malaika to increase our faith. So, it must be something that we could observed during the life time.
Peace -- the sun-moon cycle is saqar? http//corpus.quran.com/concept.jsp?id=saqar
7427 and what will make you know what saqar?
7428 not it lets remain and not it leaves
7429 lawwatun to the human http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm Lam-Waw-Ha
7430 over her nine ten (nineteen)
7431 and not We made companions the fire only angels and not We made their count only/except temptation to those who disbelieve to ascertain the ones who were given the book and increase the ones who believe faith and not suspicious/doubt the ones who were given the book and the believers and that may say the ones who in their hearts disease and the disbelievers what had intended The God in this example? like that He lets stray The God from wills and He quides from wills and not knows soldiers your Lord only He and not it is only/except a reminder to the human
7432 each and the moon
7433 and the night when departs
7434 and the dawn when it brightens
7435 that she surely one the old age/greatest
7436 a warner to the human
7437 surely from willed from you that proceeds or lags
7438 each a soul in what it earned hostage
7439 only companions the right
7440 in gardens wondering/asking each other
7441 about the criminals
7442 what led you in saqar? -
Peace all
Here is a different translation for you to compare? Let us start from 7411 for the context.
7411 Let Me deal with one I created as an individual.
7412 I provided him with lots of wealth.
7413 And children to behold.
7414 I made everything easy for him.
7415 Yet, he is greedy for more.
7416 He stubbornly refused to accept these signs/ proofs.
7417 I will increasingly punish him.
7418 For he reflected, then decided.
7419 Miserable is what he decided.
7420 Miserable indeed is what he decided.
7421 He looked.
7422 He frowned and whined.
7423 Then he turned away arrogantly.
7424 He said, "This is but clever magic!
7425 "This is human made."
7426 I will commit him to Saqar.
7427 What is Saqar!
7428 Thorough and comprehensive.
7429 Obvious to all the people.
7430 Over it is nineteen.*(19)
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.
7432 Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon. ( Why the Moon? Chapter "Moon"
541 The hour (Resurrection and judgement!) has come close, and the Moon has split.?( 1969, Man landed on the Moon and brought Moon rocks to be analysed!)542 Then they saw a miracle, but they turned away and said? Old magic.? ? ( 1974, The discovery of- Code 19- with the aid of computers, proof that the last message from GOD ? Koran? could not have been authored by Man!)
7433 And the night as it passes.
7434 And the morning as it shines.
7435 This is one of the great ones( proofs/ miracles.)*
7436 A warning to the human race.
7437 For those among you who wish to advance, or regress.
7438 Every soul is trapped by its sins.
7439 Except for those on the right.
7440 While in Paradise, they will ask.
7441 About the guilty.
7442 "What brought you to this Saqar?"Peace.
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Ramadan fasting and pilgrimage were already practiced by many pre-Islam pagan Arabs.
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Peace all
Here is a different translation for you to compare? Let us start from 7411 for the context.
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.
7432 Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon. ( Why the Moon? Chapter "Moon"
541 The hour (Resurrection and judgement!) has come close, and the Moon has split.?( 1969, Man landed on the Moon and brought Moon rocks to be analysed!)542 Then they saw a miracle, but they turned away and said? Old magic.? ? ( 1974, The discovery of- Code 19- with the aid of computers, proof that the last message from GOD ? Koran? could not have been authored by Man!)
7433 And the night as it passes.Peace.
Salaam good logic,
Christians? Jews? Man on the moon? Code 19? computers?
