Curious on verse for salaat and or prostration
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Hey I'm still stuck on "alsujoodi" an "rukkaAAan sujjadan". I can see where it can mean
"'to hear & obey' / 'respond positively' / prostrate (mindset) / lowly/humble/submissive."
But when seeing this verse
(YA) Muhammad is the apostle of God; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from God and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. God has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward. (4829)
Muhammadun rasoolu Allahi waallatheena maAAahu ashiddao AAala alkuffari ruhamao baynahum tarahum rukkaAAan sujjadan yabtaghoona fadlan mina Allahi waridwanan seemahum fee wujoohihim min athari alssujoodi thalika mathaluhum fee alttawrati wamathaluhum fee al-injeeli kazarAAin akhraja shat-ahu faazarahu faistaghlatha faistawa AAala sooqihi yuAAjibu alzzurraAAa liyagheetha bihimu alkuffara waAAada Allahu allatheena amanoo waAAamiloo alssalihati minhum maghfiratan waajran AAatheeman(4829)
I can't see where "'to hear & obey' / 'respond positively' / prostrate (mindset) / lowly/humble/submissive." can leave marks on a persons face.
We know that some people who pray the traditional way, get a sort of scafed or bruisish mark on their foreheads. Is this not the same thing?Any comments, especially from Wakas and Idolfree, since I know you both have been actively researching salaat, would be super.
Peace, Z
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Peace be upon you Zarmina7,
When I was still under the sunni influence, I did the traditional salaat as taught by the "scholars" all 5 times a day. Especially when I was incarserated and had plenty of time. I never even came close to getting a scar on my head. Is that what the God is asking of us, to scar our foreheads up? It did not add up for me.
Although many people do not like to see it this way, this reading(quran) is loaded with symbolism. The God has told us that he does not shy away from similitudes.
So lets think about the "mark" on one's face. There is another verse that we can go to for some clarification.
(2273) For the poor , those who were restricted/surrounded in The God's path , they are not able (to go) moving/traveling in the Earth, the ignorant/foolish thinks/supposes them (as) rich from the purity/refrainment (dignity), you know them by their expressions/marks , they do not ask/question the people persistently , and what you spend from goodness/wealth , so that The God (is) with it knowledgeable.
So the question we must ask ourselves now is , what is the MARK of the poor?
This 'MARK" is an expression,action,or words that give away thier inner character, not a scar or a brand. The above example states that the "MARK" of these certain poor people is that they "do not ask the people persistently".
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A symbolic mark on a symbolic face, due to symbolic prostration?
I see where mark can be a characteristic, but what about on the face, and it being due to prostration, or "'to hear & obey' / 'respond positively' / prostrate (mindset) / lowly/humble/submissive".
I can't figure out how they can all relate.
Thanks guys,
Peace,
Z -
Peace be upon you Zarmina,
The "face" represents your character. Thats why in the game called Poker, you try to disguise your expresion with a "poker face".
The God tells us to turn our "faces" to the restricted masjid WHEREVER WE ARE. Do you think the God wants us to physically turn to the "masjid" at all times? If so, you better be facing it now as you read this message.
The symbolic explanation teaches us that we are to have the CHARACTER(face) of hearing and obeying(prostration/masjid) WHEREVER we are.
So when we keep im mind that "face" is character, it all fits together.
Please ponder this and tell me what you think.
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peace Zarmina, All,
I'm not sure how true it is that performing the daily traditional slw would leave a visible mark/sign on the forehead/face. You yourself even stated "some", probably because you weren't sure about this statement either.
In any case, lets examine the ayat/sign more carefully.
The word used for "face" in this verse is "wujooh" . This word occurs many times in al quran, and is a classic example of a word which has been used literally to mean "face" and non-literally to mean "will / purpose / way of a thing" .
From PRL
Waw-Jiim-ha = to face/encounter/confront, course/purpose/object one is pursuing, place/direction one is going/looking, way of a thing, consideration/regard.
seema (root Siin-Waw-Miim) - basically means an identifiable feature (e.g. could be the way someone looks or acts).
athar (root Alif-Th!aa(three dots)-Ra) - means footstep/trace/mark/track (i.e. that which is left behind from something)
Transliteration
"...seemahum fee wujoohihim min athari alssujoodi..."M&S Ahmed's literal translation
"...their marks/identifications/expressions (are) in their faces/fronts from the prostration's trace/sign..."My translation
"... their distinction is in/on their will/faces/purpose from trace of the prostration/submission/responding positively..."At this point, one could interpret it either way in my opinion (i.e. physical or non-physical). If I did a translation I would prefer to keep it open. However the latter part of the ayat/sign implies the non-physical understanding, as it likens the two.
The latter similitude "like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight." is about spiritual growth resulting in "fruits". To acheive such effective growth, one's face/will/purpose should be traceable back to the act of prostration/submission/responding positively/hearing&obeying.
I hope I have given sufficient information for one to make up their own mind. Let me know your thoughts.
Wakas
ps - salat is not in the verse nor its surrounding context.
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Peace all,
Many of the Muslims are deluded by the traditional translation and interpretation. It is necessary to understand the surrounding verses of the particular verse and to refer the "WORDS UNDER DISCUSSION" of the PARTICULAR verse in other verses of the Quran before coming to a conclusion.
What is more surprising is that, in the said verse, there is no word 'SALAAT" but inserted in (BRACKETS) to fool the readers. (Wakas has mentioned in his p.s)
Brother Wakas has good understanding of the Quran, and in his interpretation he did not fail to take into account the reference of the said BELIEVERS with MARKS in the Taurah and the Injeel.
I will just add three more verses to further strengthen his interpretation and understanding of the said verse.
And between them will be a veil , and, on the heights will be men RECOGNISE THEM ALL BY THEIR MARK, and they will cry unto the fellows of the Garden; peace be unto you! They will not have entered it yet, while they shall be longing. 746
When their eyes shall be turned towards the companions of the fire they will say "Our Lord! send us not to the company of the wrong- doers." 747
And the fellows of the heights will cry unto the men whom they would RECOGNISE BY THEIR MARK, and say your multitude availed you naught nor that over which ye were wont to be stiff-necked. 748
The people of the GARDEN will be DELIGHTED and the people of the HELL will be FEARFUL and will be easily RECOGNISED by their EXPRESSIONS / LOOKS
Thanks
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Salaamun alaikum everyone,
In his refutations 2 (an article on free-minds.com) brother Ayman implies that the sujud is physical based on the following ayat
17108 Say "Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating, and they Say "Praise be to our Lord. Truly, the promise of our Lord was fulfilled."
Here IMO Allah is talking about a physical sujud in which the chin rests on the floor. Any comments from the knowledgable?
Peace,
Tanveer
