Except what Allah wills thee to forget ??
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Dear All, Salam
877 save what God may will 4 - for, verily, He knows all that is open to perception as well as all that is hidden
footnote 4 The classical commentators assume that the above words are addressed specifically to the Prophet, and that, therefore, they relate to his being taught the Qur'an and being promised that he would not forget anything thereof, "save what God may will ". This last clause has ever since given much trouble to the commentators, inasmuch as it is not very plausible that He who has revealed the Qur'an to the
Prophet should cause him to forget anything of it. Hence, many unconvincing explanations have been advanced from very early times down to our own days, the least convincing being that last refuge of every perplexed Qur'an-commentator, the "doctrine of abrogation" (refuted in my note 87 on 2106). However, the supposed
difficulty of interpretation disappears as soon as we allow ourselves to realize that the above passage, though ostensibly addressed to the Prophet, is directed at man in general, and that it is closely related
to an earlier Qur'anic revelation - namely, the first five verses of surah 96 ("The Germ-Cell" and, in particular, verses 3-5, which speak of God's having "taught man what he did not know". In note 3 on
those verses I have expressed the opinion that they allude to mankind's cumulative acquisition of empirical and rational knowledge, handed down from generation to generation and from one civilization to another
and it is to this very phenomenon that the present passage, too, refers. We are told here that God, who has formed man in accordance with what he is meant to be and has promised to guide him, will enable him
to acquire (and thus, as it were, "impart" to him) elements of knowledge which mankind will accumulate, record and collectively "remember" - except what God may cause man to "forget" (in another word, to abandon) as having become redundant by virtue of his new experiences and his acquisition of wider, more differentiated elements of knowledge, empirical as well as deductive or speculative, including more advanced, empirically acquired skills. However, the very next sentence makes it clear that all knowledge arrived at through our observation of the external world and through speculation, though necessary and most valuable,
is definitely limited in scope and does not, therefore, in itself suffice to give us an insight into ultimate truths.The above verse is being quoted in support of Bukhari ahadees which claim that upon hearing someone reciting certain verses of the Qur'an, the Messenger told Ayesha that it reminded him of certain verses that he was made to forget !! (if he was "made to forget" and they were not to be included in the Quran why was the man still reciting these verses???!!!)
What is the correct translation of the above and the preceding verse? Thanks.
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Peace mubashir55.
Again mistranslation of the scripture causes difficulties that are not there, let us give few more verses to get the context and hopefully the meaning?
876 We will recite to you; do not forget.
877 Everything is in accordance with GOD's will; He knows what is declared, and what is hidden.
878 We will direct you to the easiest path.
879 Therefore, you shall remind; perhaps the reminder will benefit.
8710 The reverent will take heed.
8711 The wicked will avoid it.This confirms there is no abrogation. "Do not forget" Follow the word of GOD only!
Peace. -
Peace mubashir55.
Again mistranslation of the scripture causes difficulties that are not there, let us give few more verses to get the context and hopefully the meaning?
876 We will recite to you; do not forget.
877 Everything is in accordance with GOD's will; He knows what is declared, and what is hidden.
878 We will direct you to the easiest path.
879 Therefore, you shall remind; perhaps the reminder will benefit.
8710 The reverent will take heed.
8711 The wicked will avoid it.This confirms there is no abrogation. "Do not forget" Follow the word of GOD only!
Peace.Pl good logic, do not follow the footprints of Asad, by trying to translate the Arabix Text even without knowing about the particularities of the words used therein.
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Peace Mazhar.
I told you before , I do not follow anyone ( idols) except my Lord.
GOD teaches/explains/guides with HIS words. All translations are there for checking/analysing/comparing.
Peace.
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Peace Mazhar.
I told you before , I do not follow anyone ( idols) except my Lord.
GOD teaches/explains/guides with HIS words. All translations are there for checking/analysing/comparing.
Peace.
This is an idols whisper, nothing else. Principles of translation are laid down and world wide accepted. Not following the accepted norms but find such excuses is satanic whispers. Take care and remain fascinated.
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Thanks for your help Good Logic
Dear Mazhar,
Kindly provide us with (which in your view is) a better translation of the verse/s being discussed.
For those of us who do not know Arabic it becomes confusing when translators do not do a proper job or read secondary sources into the Qur'an.
Please read the way more than 25 translators render this verse at www.islamawakned.com. They are supposed to know what they are doing!!
Question Why would Allah make the Messenger "forget" Qur'an which he was told to preach!! He needed to remember releveant verses to make a point when discussing vital issues with his audience!!
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Thanks for your help Good Logic
Dear Mazhar,
Kindly provide us with (which in your view is) a better translation of the verse/s being discussed.
For those of us who do not know Arabic it becomes confusing when translators do not do a proper job or read secondary sources into the Qur'an.
Please read the way more than 25 translators render this verse at www.islamawakned.com. They are supposed to know what they are doing!!
Question Why would Allah make the Messenger "forget" Qur'an which he was told to preach!! He needed to remember releveant verses to make a point when discussing vital issues with his audience!!
The point is missed. What is being translated? The Arabic text of Qur'aan. Can you put underneath it in target language a future verb under the past verb?
What to say of 25 if there were hundred doing the same thing they are to be discarded with one stroke.First read the individual words. The first word begins with "seen", future particle-removes away the point in time of speech---it has recurrence meanings in future----the verb suffixed to it is doubly transitive----where is second object of verb in the translations?
Shaa is Past Verb. How can you translate it in present and future proposition?
Had Asad known and verified it as doubly transitive verb he might not had given his explanatory note like that.
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Question Why would Allah make the Messenger "forget" Qur'an which he was told to preach!! He needed to remember releveant verses to make a point when discussing vital issues with his audience!!
Salaam Mubashir,
There is no mention of the Messenger in aayat quoted, it is referring to reader.
mmKhan
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Kindly provide us with (which in your view is) a better translation of the verse/s being discussed.
Qur'aan has nowhere allowed the translators to bring in their views. It is clarified that this is not poetry. In poetry everybody has a right to bring in his own interpretations including meanings of personal choice.
Every particle and word must be fully translated in the target language to avoid the translational loss and resultant distortion of the concept and thought conveyed in that text. Every word must be fully translated. In one to one talk the known objective is elided to retain the succint nature of language.
We in future too will cause gradual-intermittent reading to you the Messenger the text of Qur'aan.
The result of this reading is that you the Messenger do not, and will never forget it.
The reason for not forgetting is none except that Allah the Exalted did not so will.
It is fact that He the Exalted fully knows that which is manifestly visible and that which is hidden .
And We will cause comfort for you by gradual reading for purpose of convenience -
Qur'aan has nowhere allowed the translators to bring in their views. It is clarified that this is not poetry. In poetry everybody has a right to bring in his own interpretations including meanings of personal choice.
Every particle and word must be fully translated in the target language to avoid the translational loss and resultant distortion of the concept and thought conveyed in that text. Every word must be fully translated. In one to one talk the known objective is elided to retain the succint nature of language.
We in future too will cause gradual-intermittent reading to you the Messenger the text of Qur'aan.
The result of this reading is that you the Messenger do not, and will never forget it.
The reason for not forgetting is none except that Allah the Exalted did not so will.
It is fact that He the Exalted fully knows that which is manifestly visible and that which is hidden .
And We will cause comfort for you by gradual reading for purpose of convenienceQur'aan has nowhere allowed the translators to bring in their views
We in future too will cause gradual-intermittent reading to you the Messenger the text of Qur'aan.
The result of this reading is that you the Messenger do not, and will never forget it.
The reason for not forgetting is none except that Allah the Exalted did not so will.
It is fact that He the Exalted fully knows that which is manifestly visible and that which is hidden .
And We will cause comfort for you by gradual reading for purpose of convenience&
May Allah protect and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Arabic Pronouns are DEFINITE. "Ka" denotes only and only a specific person. In translation the personal pronouns needbe translated for the reader of target language. It is not ones thought. What is in the parentheses that is done by me while mentioned him the Messenger obeying the command given to me as believer elsewhere in Qur'aan.
The discourse is about reading and forgetting---issue is about memory----reading the text is apparent-visible on paper---nothing to do with forgetting----its other part is in memory--the hidden aspect of data-text. Purpose of convenience is understood--the discharge of his assignment---when you at other places the objective of gradual revelation and reading---it is for the comfort and to make the job of the Messenger easy.
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Agreed! But who will decide who is that specific person? I say it is reader because if it is referring to messenger it is said so as rasool or nabi.
Ok. But before "Ka" there is another pronoun in the verb that refers to the Subject of Verb. It is "We". What you say whom "We" refers and why?
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Ok. But before "Ka" there is another pronoun in the verb that refers to the Subject of Verb. It is "We". What you say whom "We" refers and why?
Why you always change topic brother?
Anyways, "WE" is not referring to Allah for sure. If you want, I can write an article on WE confirming that it is not referring to Allah, inshaAllah.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Why you always change topic brother?
Anyways, "WE" is not referring to Allah for sure. If you want, I can write an article on WE confirming that it is not referring to Allah, inshaAllah. )
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanIt is the same topic----to first learn abc about pronouns before giving judgments. "We" needs to be associated first, since this Pronoun is the Subject of Verb, the Object of verb comes later on. First refer the Pronoun "We"--identifying who they are.
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It is the same topic----to first learn abc about pronouns before giving judgments. "We" needs to be associated first, since this Pronoun is the Subject of Verb, the Object of verb comes later on. First refer the Pronoun "We"--identifying who they are.
Why you repeat it again when I have already given you answer who WE is as per my understanding? hmm
mmKhan
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Why you repeat it again when I have already given you answer who WE is as per my understanding? hmm
mmKhan
You have not given. Pronoun has to be specified. "We" refers to whom? Saying "it is not referring to Allah" does not specify as to who are referred by "We".
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You have not given. Pronoun has to be specified. "We" refers to whom? Saying "it is not referring to Allah" does not specify as to who are referred by "We".
I THINK, "we" may be referring to some authorities who work for Allah. If you have answer please enlighten me but please please please with an aayat.
mmKhan
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I THINK, "we" may be referring to some authorities who work for Allah. If you have answer please enlighten me but please please please with an aayat.
mmKhan
And you earlier said that "Ka" pronoun is for the reader, say mmkhan when he is the reader. In the light of meanings of these two pronouns what you mean is "I think some authories who work for Allah read to me, mmkhan". however you have not yet specified who those authorities are since pronoun is always definite. Similarly your thinking does not tell me what those authorities keep reading to you, mmkhan.