Killed sons, and left daughters alive
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Peace idol,
Anyone else have another understanding of why pharoah killed the sons and left the daughters alive?
Pharaoh eliminated all the powerful ones and allowed life only for the submissive people. We see such politicians, people the world over.
008.054
In the manner of the people, of Pharaoh and those before them; they rejected the communications of their Lord, therefore We destroyed them on account of their faults and We drowned Firon's people, and they were all unjust.What about the 'drowning of Pharaoh'? 'Dividing of the Sea' ; making of the 'Dry path' in the sea; Musa and His People crossed the sea between the 'mountain like sea' ? 12 fountain heads ; stick turning into snake. Do you have abstract analogy to all these ? Please explain if you have
drfazl
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Peace be upon you,
What is to be understood by the symbolism of pharoah killing the "sons" and letting the "daughters" stay alive?
My understanding goes back to the male and female principle. The son would be a thought going out, and the daughter a thought coming in. So pharoah would prevent any new thoughts/ideas (independent thought), only allowing the propaganda of him and his court to be digested by the people(daughters).
Please comment.
I think killing the "sons/males" means destroying the leadership/rationality in the individual/society and letting the "daughters/females" live means that "emotionalism/chaos" is allowed to hold sway over the individual/society.
This symbolism is consistent with the ayat where it says that "they learned how to come between a man and his wife". Meaning, to corrupt the relationship between intellect and emotion, thus, creating such results chaos, docility, apathy, self-abnegation etc.
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Peace be upon you Doc,
Pharaoh eliminated all the powerful ones and allowed life only for the submissive people. We see such politicians, people the world over.
008.054
In the manner of the people, of Pharaoh and those before them; they rejected the communications of their Lord, therefore We destroyed them on account of their faults and We drowned Firon's people, and they were all unjust.What about the 'drowning of Pharaoh'?
Pharoah represents the wicked rulers. Large body of water represents an unstable society, as land represents stable society. Musa led the people THROUGH the unstable society by his new philosophy which he leaned on(staff touching the water), those who follow the guidance are brought safely through the unstable societies safely, while the wicked rulers and thier followers are "drowned" in thier unstable societies. I think we can all see this example in out lives.
'Dividing of the Sea' ; making of the 'Dry path' in the sea; Musa and His People crossed the sea between the 'mountain like sea' ?
Answered above
12 fountain heads ;
Still thinking about that one.
stick turning into snake. Do you have abstract analogy to all these ? Please explain if you have
The staff/stick was explained by Musa in the following manner;
(2017-1 "And what (is) that at your right you Moses?" He said "It is my stick, I lean on/support myself on it, and I hit/move/shake with it on my sheep and goats, and for me in it others needs/purposes."
The stick represents Musa's philoophy of life, it is what he supports himself with and also uses it to guide his "sheep". The God tells him to THROW it, and it becomes ACTIVE.
Today , so many people are stuck in these PHYSICALIZED religions that have them stuck in time. They want "ramadhan" to be a physicalized month , rather than an ACTIVE description. They want "muhammad" to be a Physicalized human from 1400 yrs ago, instead of an ACTIVE description of any man who achieves that level, they want "ruku" and "sujood" to be physicalized movements on the ground rather than ACTIVE hearing and obeying of the LAWS of the God.
It is frightening to many of us when we finally see our "religion" come alive for us, but the God reassures us not to be afraid.
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Do you have abstract analogy to all these ? Please explain if you have
Peace dr
I believe that every story in the Quran relates to us in more than just a physical level, we are more than just physical beings. The world is a mirror.
What about the 'drowning of Pharaoh'? 'Dividing of the Sea' ; making of the 'Dry path' in the sea; Musa and His People crossed the sea between the 'mountain like sea' ?
I am still somewhat unsure on these. I have not looked at these as much as I have looked a the others.
12 fountain heads ;
Until just a few days ago I had held this to be related to the signs of the Zodiac, been that there is twelve signs in the zodiac. This I believed was why each group knew its place. However FM's translation did not translate verses 1516, 2561 and 851 as Zodiac, I will have to look more in depth as to why.
stick turning into snake.
I just want to quote two verses before I explain my understanding so far
?And throw down your staff.? So when he saw it vibrate as if it were a Jinn, he ran away and would not turn back. ?O Moses, do not fear, for My messengers shall have no fear from Me.?
(2710)He threw down his staff and it manifested into a serpent.
(6107)In the second chapter God orders the angels to submit to Adam, all of them did except for Satan, the Jinn. He held himself to be greater than Adam *712).
Satan is that desire in us that holds its self greater than us, if we submit to it (self-gratification) were destructed but if we overcome it then were made whole again (self-lessness).
I believe Musa was able to control that desire, thats how I hold the symbology of the story. Adam and his spouse fell because of this desire but Musa parted seas withit, because it can be good or bad wether or not its used for selfish or selfless motives.
An interesting thing I have come to realize is that the snake is a universal symbol, in Kundalini you uncoil the snake in meditation and raise it up, in Egyptian philosophy you must be lighter than a feather to enter heaven or you are eaten by snakes and even in the bible there is the story of adam and eve as well as the Isrealites been bitten by poisonous snakes from the clouds and musas snake been given the attribute as life giving.
pz
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salams all,
salam idolfree, haha i hope you were joking about some of your responses.
anyway, i have to agree on this issue that when the Quran speaks of the pharoah killing the sons and letting the daughters live, it is not actually referring to the physical gender since obviously this would have eliminated the jewish population... rather it refers to on one hand the jews that were independent, thinkers, revolutionary, and on the other hand those who were willing to be controlled and be saps of the pharoah. )Now this is not meant to be offensive to women of course, but it just so happens the word can be used to refer to those who would be controlled.)
We have to realize that the pharoah had this thing well planned out. Just like rulers today, the best way to subjugate a people is to create a "puppet government" or puppet leaders. On the surface they are from their own people, and claim to be working for their own people's rights and freedoms.. but underneath the surface they are merely yes-men to their masters.
This is how the pharoah was able to effectively eliminate any revolutionary movement, by using the jews against themselves. (Otherwise he would have had to deal with several revolts.) And this is the state they were in when Musa (as) came, and many among them remained in this state even after Musa led them to freedom.
wassalam
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Peace be upon you Shuiab,
salam idolfree, haha i hope you were joking about some of your responses.
No, I wasn't.
Now this is not meant to be offensive to women of course, but it just so happens the word can be used to refer to those who would be controlled
The male and female PRINCIPLE runs through all things. Physical gender is only the LOWEST manifestation of this PRINCIPLE. There is always a give and take. The female is not to be thought of as 'one who is controlled" rather, one who gives birth to the seed that was implanted in it.
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Peace be upon you,
for more thoughts on "son/young boy", does the God order for REAL LIFE innocent male children to be killed for doing no wrong?
(1874) Then they proceeded until, when they met a young man, he killed him...
Or Abrahams "son". Think about it.
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Peace idolfree,
Large body of water represents an unstable society, as land represents stable society. - idolfree
Is it not that the land is given life and enriched by the water? Thus can water be not considered stable? For, instablility cannot produce stability -
Musa led the people THROUGH the unstable society by his new philosophy which he leaned on(staff touching the water), - idolfree
Is it possible to lead a people towards stabilty through instability? And is it the new philosophy or the reminder of the previous TRUTH, forgetten? How can you lean on the instability for support (staff touching the water)? If they crossed through the unstable societies(dividing the sea) , then Allah says after they crossed the sea there they found the unstable society which was worshipping the cows and idols.
drfazl
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
Large body of water represents an unstable society, as land represents stable society. - idolfree
Is it not that the land is given life and enriched by the water? Thus can water be not considered stable? For, instablility cannot produce stability -
Please note what I said above LARGE BODY of water is symbolism of unstable society. Not tiny rain drops. You can resolve this easily by trying to walk in the Ocean and compare that to trying to walk on land on a rainy day.
Small amounts of water(rain) symbolizes revelation (that whichgives life to the "earth" hat is dead). Just as a small fire is good (Musa and the bush), a large fire is bad(hell fire).
Musa led the people THROUGH the unstable society by his new philosophy which he leaned on(staff touching the water), - idolfree
Is it possible to lead a people towards stabilty through instability?
Look all around you brother, this world is very unstable, the result of MOST people not serving the One God. How else can one be lead except in the MIDST of this unstability? So Musa made the seas split. If you can see that vision in your mind, then you can see that the waters move to the side and you have STABLE LAND to walk on as you go through the split waters. Also think of this, the God inspired man to create SHIPS. What is a SHIP? It is a stable environment that we use to travel across the unstable society as well. We should all be busy making our "arks", even if the people are laughing at our understandings.
And is it the new philosophy or the reminder of the previous TRUTH, forgetten?
It is a reminder, but it is new to the one just being inspired.
How can you lean on the instability for support (staff touching the water)?
He did not lean on the water, he leaned on his staff(his life philosophy), we all rely on our understandings of life, and only those who change them to match the God's will can succeed.
If they crossed through the unstable societies(dividing the sea) , then Allah says after they crossed the sea there they found the unstable society which was worshipping the cows and idols.
Yes, you can LEAD a horse to water, but you cant make him drink. While Musa led them to stability, thier own MINDS were not purified, so they could not last long without thier idols.
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Just to note, it's killing the sons and keeping alive the WOMEN , not daughters. Does that change your interpretation in any way, brother ?
Yes, it strengthens it because a full grown woman is one who is set in her ways, she has brought forth the created idea, and is now grown, which is the opposite of the young boy, who is still formable, like clay.
Thank you for the clarification.
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Thanks for the kind and encouraging words, they are very comforting in the midst of insults that I have been recieving.