I renounced my faith in the divinity of the Qur'an today
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Peace Godsubmitter,
I looked up the prayers of Zaroastrians on Youtube. They don't even remotely resemble the Muslim prayers.
Here, take a look
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoZ1nFfUUpQ
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"...God has sealed their hearts and their hearing, and over their..."
26 BEHOLD, as for those who are bent on denying the truth 6 it is all one to them whether thou warnest them or
dost not warn them they will not believe. (27) God has sealed their hearts and their hearing, and over their
eyes is a veil; 7 and awesome suffering awaits them.
Footnotes
6 In contrast with the frequently occurring term al-kafirun ("those who deny the truth",
the use of the past tense in alladhina kafaru indicates conscious intent, and is,
therefore, appropriately rendered as "those who are bent on denying the truth". This
interpretation is supported by many commentators, especially Zamakhshari (who, in his
commentary on this verse, uses the expression, "those who have deliberately resolved upon
their kufr". Elsewhere in the Qur'an such people are spoken of as having "hearts with
which they fail to grasp the truth, and eyes with which they fail to see, and ears with
which they fail to hear" (7179). - For an explanation of the terms kufr ("denial of
the truth", kafir ("one who denies the truth", etc., see note 4 on 7410, where this
concept appears for the first time in Qur'anic revelation.
7 A reference to the natural law instituted by God, whereby a person who persistently
adheres to false beliefs and refuses to listen to the voice of truth gradually loses
the ability to perceive the truth, "so that finally, as it were, a seal is set upon
his heart" (Raghib). Since it is God who has instituted all laws of nature - which, in
their aggregate, are called sunnat Allah ("the way of God" - this "sealing" is
attributed to Him but it is obviously a consequence of man's free choice and not an
act of "predestination". Similarly, the suffering which, in the life to come, is in
store for those who during their life in this world have wilfully remained deaf and
blind to the truth, is a natural consequence of their free choice - just as happiness
in the life to come is the natural consequence of man's endeavour to attain to
righteousness and inner illumination. It is in this sense that the Qur'anic references
to God's "reward" and "punishment" must be understood
To read online please visit
http//asadullahali.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/the-message-of-the-quran.pdf
I guess I'm a denier of truth then. I practiced Islam for years and I would end my salat that God increase me in humility, increase me in knowledge, increase me in patience, guide me, and make me a true Muslim.
I guess atheism is what you end up with when you pray for truth?
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Peace Godsubmitter,
I looked up the prayers of Zaroastrians on Youtube. They don't even remotely resemble the Muslim prayers.
Here, take a look
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoZ1nFfUUpQ
That's not the individual prayer, it is a liturgy! (Youtube titles are arbitrary)
READ HE THREAD I posted the link to! -
I guess atheism is what you end up with when you pray for truth?
Splendid!
peace
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Faithful Jinn
As God is just and fair and merciful, you may want to search your soul for what you knew you were lacking but did not take the iniative to fix it and perhaps wishing for God to fix it for you.
There are many areas for me that I still find confusing in the Qur'an but I don't jump ship. I seek guidance with patience and prayer and making efforts to dust off the layers of pollution on the mirror of my soul accumulated by wilful neglect. I realize I need to work harder to clean my "mirror' so that God's guidance can reflect on it.
I avoid, as the Qur'an says, an attitude which the rejectors had, meaning"If God did not will, we would not be engaging in objectionable behaviour"
As they say, first deserve, then desire...!!
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INSATIABLE DESIRE TO CRITICISE THE QURAN
? When the Quran confirms the Bible, it is accused of plagiarism.
? When the Quran detracts from the Bible, it is accused of Biblical misinformation and a lack of knowledge of its contents.
? When the Quran confirms a non-canonical Biblical text (Apocrypha) or an extraneous rabbinical thought, it is accused of ignorance pandering to ancient traditions and myths.
? When the Quran confirms vestiges of truth from the knowledge of the ancients, it is accused of borrowing ideas that were in situ.
? When the Quran is in tandem with elucidatory scientific advancements and knowledge, it is cavalierly accused of nothing spectacular, but general knowledge known to the ancients.
? When the Quran challenges regressive social freedoms encouraged in the name of modernity, it is accused of being quintessentially archaic.
For the insatiable ardent critic, any form of unwarranted criticism is fair play.
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Faithful Jinn
As God is just and fair and merciful, you may want to search your soul for what you knew you were lacking but did not take the iniative to fix it and perhaps wishing for God to fix it for you.
There are many areas for me that I still find confusing in the Qur'an but I don't jump ship. I seek guidance with patience and prayer and making efforts to dust off the layers of pollution on the mirror of my soul accumulated by wilful neglect. I realize I need to work harder to clean my "mirror' so that God's guidance can reflect on it.
I avoid, as the Qur'an says, an attitude which the rejectors had, meaning"If God did not will, we would not be engaging in objectionable behaviour"
As they say, first deserve, then desire...!!
Then you're doomed to remain in the grip of Islam. I found what I saw as falsehood in the Qur'an and so I abandoned it. This is how people progress and advance. The fact that you find things confusing in the Qur'an and don't face them head on shows just how powerful religion is at controlling peoples minds.
I was confused like you. So I decided to face the problem and look at exactly what I was questioning. I looked at it with an open heart and mind and a rational perspective. What I found leads me to believe I have no reason to believe this book is from God, and with this revelation I renounce my faith in the divinity of the Qur'an.
I don't need a belief system that is an enemy of free thinking and hard questions.
I'd say the willful neglect is not in your soul but in your mind because when you face difficult questions concerning faith, it seems you say a prayer and stick your head in the sand like an ostrich instead of addressing your concerns from a rational point of view and making a decision on whether your concerns are valid or if you simply misinterpreted or misunderstood.
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As-Salaam Alaikum,
My brother I read a few post and I don't think this has been brought up.
If you look at Islam and the Qur'an from a Self-Knowledge perspective I think things would start to make sense to you. Contrary to popular belief, Allah is not a sole anthropomorphic diety suspended somewhere. Scripture says Man was created in (but more correct as) the image of Allah, meaning you yourself are a divinity, an avatar of Allah. Allah works through man, not for man, Allah's Will is manifested through man. Everything in creation is in Islam, only man has choice.
With this understanding you can go back to the Qur'an and understand the true gnosis it really is with this new understanding. You are an eternal being, always existed and always will. Terms like heaven and hellfire are just mindstates, Iblis is your carnal desires, the shaytans are the oppressive people of the earth, etc.
I myself started as a Christian, then converted to Sunnism. After really learning about it I started to have serious doubts about Islam, but I still was intrigued by the Qur'an because of its proofs and evidences, both scientifically and philosphically as stated before, and spiritually may I add. I started to study other forms of Islam like the Nation of Islam and then from there the Nation of Gods and Earths (Five Percenters), while I was also studying Gnosticism and Ancient Egypt. While I do not identify or associate myself with those groups, one major thing I learned from the Five Percenters is Knowledge of Self. Once I grasped that concept, my view on Islam and the Qur'an became concrete, especially after learning about the forged hadith which both the NOI and NGE also teach.
Just thought I bring up something that didn't get brought up yet and might have you thinking. Regardless of your descision you'll be fine brother, no one is going to lose their soul. It's an eternity of soul progression, if we didn't get something right this go around, we'll be incarnated right back here again until we do. One love.
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As-Salaam Alaikum,
My brother I read a few post and I don't think this has been brought up.
If you look at Islam and the Qur'an from a Self-Knowledge perspective I think things would start to make sense to you. Contrary to popular belief, Allah is not a sole anthropomorphic diety suspended somewhere. Scripture says Man was created in (but more correct as) the image of Allah, meaning you yourself are a divinity, an avatar of Allah. Allah works through man, not for man, Allah's Will is manifested through man. Everything in creation is in Islam, only man has choice.
With this understanding you can go back to the Qur'an and understand the true gnosis it really is with this new understanding. You are an eternal being, always existed and always will. Terms like heaven and hellfire are just mindstates, Iblis is your carnal desires, the shaytans are the oppressive people of the earth, etc.
I myself started as a Christian, then converted to Sunnism. After really learning about it I started to have serious doubts about Islam, but I still was intrigued by the Qur'an because of its proofs and evidences, both scientifically and philosphically as stated before, and spiritually may I add. I started to study other forms of Islam like the Nation of Islam and then from there the Nation of Gods and Earths (Five Percenters), while I was also studying Gnosticism and Ancient Egypt. While I do not identify or associate myself with those groups, one major thing I learned from the Five Percenters is Knowledge of Self. Once I grasped that concept, my view on Islam and the Qur'an became concrete, especially after learning about the forged hadith which both the NOI and NGE also teach.
Just thought I bring up something that didn't get brought up yet and might have you thinking. Regardless of your descision you'll be fine brother, no one is going to lose their soul. It's an eternity of soul progression, if we didn't get something right this go around, we'll be incarnated right back here again until we do. One love.
If everybody is left alone to form his opinions based on self-knowledge, and mankind is alone on this planet to create opinions about soul, spirit and invisible things, then there is no god who gave any scripture?
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Renouncing one's faith is the worst decision one can take in one's life. Just because we do not understand certain things, or because we don't like following God's rules. Whatever the reason, our very short existance on earth is not worth it. For anyone who isn't "dumb, deaf and blind", it's obvious that the earth, the universe and everything in it was created by God.
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Renouncing one's faith is the worst decision one can take in one's life. Just because we do not understand certain things, or because we don't like following God's rules. Whatever the reason, our very short existance on earth is not worth it. For anyone who isn't "dumb, deaf and blind", it's obvious that the earth, the universe and everything in it was created by God.
It's not about rules. It's about truth. I cannot stress enough that I care about TRUTH. It doesn't matter how much I do or don't want God to exist I am a seeker of truth not comforting feelings. I no longer believe it is true. I can't force myself to believe it, if God is real He can read my thoughts so pretending to believe won't mean anything.
I've simply come to a point of personal understanding after much thought, research, and analysis of the scripture and the premise of the Abrahamic faiths. The Qur'an could easily have come from man.
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Faithful Jinn,
I have been reading this thread, with interest. I think we all have questions about various things in the Qu'ran. I can completely respect your decision and the choice you have made. How can I say anything if you have done your own research. I may disagree, but I still respect what you have done, for your own beliefs. I wish you the best in your journey to the truth.
I have just two questions and I am interested in your response. You state it could have easily been written by man. When the Qu'ran was first recited (before it was compiled and written) do you think man could have produced palindromes orally on the fly? Not words but also sentences? Of course the most famous one I know is Rabbaka-fa-Kabbir.
The other question, I have always been fascinated with the science of Qu'ran on subjects man knew nothing about until much later (Embryology, Sensory characteristics of the skin, Geology, Oceanography and Astronomy) What is your take on this?
Thanks
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Faithful Jinn,
I have been reading this thread, with interest. I think we all have questions about various things in the Qu'ran. I can completely respect your decision and the choice you have made. How can I say anything if you have done your own research. I may disagree, but I still respect what you have done, for your own beliefs. I wish you the best in your journey to the truth.
I have just two questions and I am interested in your response. You state it could have easily been written by man. When the Qu'ran was first recited (before it was compiled and written) do you think man could have produced palindromes orally on the fly? Not words but also sentences? Of course the most famous one I know is Rabbaka-fa-Kabbir.
Well this first question is immaterial to me. Just because Muhammad could rhyme well and he had some palindromes is evidence of nothing. It's likely a mathematical probability in some languages that this happens occasionally in speech especially in a root based language like Arabic. This is no more evidence of divinity than a Dr. Seuss book.
The other question, I have always been fascinated with the science of Qu'ran on subjects man knew nothing about until much later (Embryology, Sensory characteristics of the skin, Geology, Oceanography and Astronomy) What is your take on this?
Thanks
First off the embryology in the Qur'an is speculated to have been plagiarized from greek philosophers like Aristotle and some greek guy named Galen. They had similar if not identical things to say on the Qur'an and they existed before Muhammad. So humans had this knowledge before the Qur'an existed. As for geology, oceanography, and astronomy what exactly does the Qur'an say that you find miraculous?
I believe the Qur'an has such vague claims about the natural universe that it could be re-interpreted in many ways to make sense with modern science but first I'll accept what specific claims you personally believe are miraculous.
I personally don't think that just because a book makes some vague and possibly correct scientific claims that it is from God. You underestimate the intelligence of ancient human civilizations. Even the ancient Egyptians who lived 3000 years before Muhammad were excellent in math and astronomy and humans have been using the stars to navigate since the dawn of civilization. I believe many of the claims in the Qur'an were either known at the time in history or directly plagiarized from another source or so vague that it could be correct.
But like I said which claims do you believe to be so miraculous and why exactly do you think the Qur'an is divine?
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Well this first question is immaterial to me. Just because Muhammad could rhyme well and he had some palindromes is evidence of nothing. It's likely a mathematical probability in some languages that this happens occasionally in speech especially in a root based language like Arabic. This is no more evidence of divinity than a Dr. Seuss book.
First off the embryology in the Qur'an is speculated to have been plagiarized from greek philosophers like Aristotle and some greek guy named Galen. They had similar if not identical things to say on the Qur'an and they existed before Muhammad. So humans had this knowledge before the Qur'an existed. As for geology, oceanography, and astronomy what exactly does the Qur'an say that you find miraculous?
I believe the Qur'an has such vague claims about the natural universe that it could be re-interpreted in many ways to make sense with modern science but first I'll accept what specific claims you personally believe are miraculous.
I personally don't think that just because a book makes some vague and possibly correct scientific claims that it is from God. You underestimate the intelligence of ancient human civilizations. Even the ancient Egyptians who lived 3000 years before Muhammad were excellent in math and astronomy and humans have been using the stars to navigate since the dawn of civilization. I believe many of the claims in the Qur'an were either known at the time in history or directly plagiarized from another source or so vague that it could be correct.
But like I said which claims do you believe to be so miraculous and why exactly do you think the Qur'an is divine?
Excellent! bravo bravo bravo
Thank you @Faithful Jinn -
Well this first question is immaterial to me. Just because Muhammad could rhyme well and he had some palindromes is evidence of nothing. It's likely a mathematical probability in some languages that this happens occasionally in speech especially in a root based language like Arabic. This is no more evidence of divinity than a Dr. Seuss book.
First off the embryology in the Qur'an is speculated to have been plagiarized from greek philosophers like Aristotle and some greek guy named Galen. They had similar if not identical things to say on the Qur'an and they existed before Muhammad. So humans had this knowledge before the Qur'an existed. As for geology, oceanography, and astronomy what exactly does the Qur'an say that you find miraculous?
I believe the Qur'an has such vague claims about the natural universe that it could be re-interpreted in many ways to make sense with modern science but first I'll accept what specific claims you personally believe are miraculous.
I personally don't think that just because a book makes some vague and possibly correct scientific claims that it is from God. You underestimate the intelligence of ancient human civilizations. Even the ancient Egyptians who lived 3000 years before Muhammad were excellent in math and astronomy and humans have been using the stars to navigate since the dawn of civilization. I believe many of the claims in the Qur'an were either known at the time in history or directly plagiarized from another source or so vague that it could be correct.
But like I said which claims do you believe to be so miraculous and why exactly do you think the Qur'an is divine?
I agree with your ideas Jinn.. glad im not the only quranist in this world that believes that about the Quran.. )
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Peace all.
What can I say?
26;225 Do you not see that their loyalty shifts according to the situation. (They are in!)?
2776 ? This Scripture ( Koran, the last testament) settles many issues for the children of Israel ( and all the other systems/ religions); Issues that they are still disputing.?
I say " believe in it or do not believe in it " I am not your guardian.
Peace.
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Well this first question is immaterial to me. Just because Muhammad could rhyme well and he had some palindromes is evidence of nothing. It's likely a mathematical probability in some languages that this happens occasionally in speech especially in a root based language like Arabic. This is no more evidence of divinity than a Dr. Seuss book.
First off the embryology in the Qur'an is speculated to have been plagiarized from greek philosophers like Aristotle and some greek guy named Galen. They had similar if not identical things to say on the Qur'an and they existed before Muhammad. So humans had this knowledge before the Qur'an existed. As for geology, oceanography, and astronomy what exactly does the Qur'an say that you find miraculous?
I believe the Qur'an has such vague claims about the natural universe that it could be re-interpreted in many ways to make sense with modern science but first I'll accept what specific claims you personally believe are miraculous.
I personally don't think that just because a book makes some vague and possibly correct scientific claims that it is from God. You underestimate the intelligence of ancient human civilizations. Even the ancient Egyptians who lived 3000 years before Muhammad were excellent in math and astronomy and humans have been using the stars to navigate since the dawn of civilization. I believe many of the claims in the Qur'an were either known at the time in history or directly plagiarized from another source or so vague that it could be correct.
But like I said which claims do you believe to be so miraculous and why exactly do you think the Qur'an is divine?
Spoken like the the devil himself
congradulations JinnPeace O0