7:11 creation of humans? Adam? / test.
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peace,
The following may help
From http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Alif-Dal-Miim = seasoned (e.g. food), to mix/associate/unite/mingle together, a means of access, pattern/exemplar, object of imitation, tanned skin/hide, leather, the surface of the earth/ground, Adam, Children of Adam, human beings.
adam n. 231, 233, 234, 235, 237, 333, 359, 527, 711, 719, 726, 727, 731, 735, 7172, 1761, 1770, 1850, 1958, 20115, 20116, 20117, 20120, 20121, 3660
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 1, pages 72, 73, 74
From http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-quran.html
Please note the story of adam is better understood as a parable, e.g. see here and here for a brief explanation. It is a preamble to this life, outlining the parameters of the "test", so to speak. That if you abide by God's law you are safe (i.e. worthy of paradise) and if you disobey, nothing can be hidden from Him, i.e. you are exposed before Him, accountability, how to repent/amend, God's mercy/guidance etc.
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w/salaam,
If you mean a verse that specifically says it is a parable, then not that I can recall. However, the words used, grammar, info, logic etc certainly suggest it is, to me.
There is a chapter dedicated to this in the following work, and you can read it online for free
Chapter 10
http//www.scribd.com/doc/37354743/Understanding-Quran-Themes-and-Style-by-Abdel-Haleem -
w/salaam,
If you mean a verse that specifically says it is a parable, then not that I can recall. However, the words used, grammar, info, logic etc certainly suggest it is, to me.
There is a chapter dedicated to this in the following work, and you can read it online for free
Chapter 10
http//www.scribd.com/doc/37354743/Understanding-Quran-Themes-and-Style-by-Abdel-HaleemSalaam,
Can you give an example of what kind of words (or grammar or info or logic) you mean?
And for what is it a parable?And if it's a parable then who are Bani Adam?
Salaam,
Bender -
w/salaam,
The answer to your first two questions are in my two posts above (please also read the links within the posts).
Your last question "adam" and "bani adam" are different terms, although related. Please study their occurrences and let me know what you find.
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Peace Bender, Wakas.
Thank you both for your contributions.
Now, I am still not clear, What about these two other possibilities
1- Is GOD saying that HE created us( then after evolution), we reached this status(shaped us) then HE tested Adam.?
2- GOD created Adam, but is using the past tense for us " children of Adam.?
Bender , if "Adam" is the " you/koum" it is not making sense?
Wakas , the parable explanation does not fit the context in other verses?
I appreciate more input from everyone, if they have any views/facts...
Thanks in advance.Peace.
Peace.
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Peace all.
We created you, then we shaped you, then we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Iblees (Satan); he was not with the prostrators.
Why is GOD using the plural first( you= koum) ,then dealing with Adam( singular) in the same sentence?
I welcome your contribution/s .
Peace.
Salam good logic,
I'm kind of fuzzy on this, not sure exactly..just spitting out some possibilities..
what about this new age though that says the constant Plank number h has something to do with same number of stars born/die or something like that..
what if this koum is already defined in this number
the number represents consciousness of every creatures including jinns n humans,
and the first picture/image of human was that of the first manifestation of adam..
??
naseem haramayn i think has some of the science on it (excluding the adam n jinn connection that is)@wakas
thanks for the link on the masjid, very interesting read..wallahua3lam
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w/salaam,
The answer to your first two questions are in my two posts above (please also read the links within the posts).
Salaam,
At the moment I do not see anything that suggest the story of Adam to be a parable. Although I still didn't read the booklink (inshaAllah later on tonight).
If you take it as a parable then also the first part of verse 711 must be a parable.
711 And We created you, THEN We shaped you, THEN We said to the angels "Yield to Adam;" so they yielded except for Satan, he was not of those who yielded.
This verse clearly showes us step by step the evolution, note the word THUMMA (then).
So as per my logic if the blue part is a parable then the red part must also be a parable.Your last question "adam" and "bani adam" are different terms, although related. Please study their occurrences and let me know what you find.
I found out that Adam had bani's and their bani's are called Bani Adam.
727 O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe.And we also have thurriyati Adam
1958 Those are the ones whom God has blessed from among the prophets from the progeny of Adam, and those We carried with Noah, and from the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from whom We have guided and chosen. When the revelations of the Almighty are recited to them, they fall down prostrating, and in tears.So if Adam is a parable then Ibrahim is also a parable.
How do you see Bani Adam and the relation it has with Adam?
Salaam,
Bender -
peace,
Now, I am still not clear, What about these two other possibilities
1- Is GOD saying that HE created us( then after evolution), we reached this status(shaped us) then HE tested Adam.?
That seems theoretically possible.
So if Adam is a parable then Ibrahim is also a parable.
No. I said "the story of adam" is a parable, not every mention of the word adam or terms with adam or others using the same terms as adam.
Please also see http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable
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Peace Bender.
What did not make sense was the part where Adam was tested? It could not have been all the children of Adam? ie not " koum"!
Peace.
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No. I said "the story of adam" is a parable, not every mention of the word adam or terms with adam or others using the same terms as adam.
Please also see http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable
Salaam,
I know what a parable is.
But I don't understand how you can devide an ayaat in two parts, or even a sentence in an ayaat in 2 parts (like 711) and say that one half is real and the other half is a parable hmm (unless ofcourse you take the first half also as a parable).from verse 37 I learned that only whole ayaats can be a parable and not only a part of it.
37 "... "btw I took a quick look at the booklink I don't agree with parts he wrote.
Salaam,
Bender -
Peace Bender.
What did not make sense was the part where Adam was tested? It could not have been all the children of Adam? ie not " koum"!
Peace.
Salaam good logic,
It doesn't say the children of Adam were "tested" but Adam and his mate.
Please take a look at tis verse
238
What does the red part tell you (how many?) ?And for the record, I also find the story of Adam one of the most difficult to understand, only recently I am grasping just a little bit of it.
May Allah increase us in knowledge pr
Bender -
Peace Bender.
In {711} if GOD was addressing only " Adam and his mate" HE would have use " Kouma" arabic for "two people". However GOD used "Koum" a plural ie more than two people.
Peace.
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peace bender,
It was your own assumption that I take one half of the verse as parable and the other not.
I linked to what is a parable, as you seemingly did not understand what a parable was. I googled short examples of parables and got many sites but here is one http//www.parablesite.com
Read any one, but let me give you an example of what I mean, e.g.
From Frog in a Milk-Pail (see link)
"A frog was hopping around a farmyard, when it decided to investigate the barn................"Is "hopping" a parable in of itself? Is "farmyard" parable in of itself? etc etc etc.
In case it is not clear, I am saying the story of adam is a parable, not every single term or component is a parable. Do you understand now?
In any case, for my view, see http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596570.msg278091#msg278091
btw I took a quick look at the booklink I don't agree with parts he wrote.
A "quick look" eh? Before I use my time/effort in replying to you with links, can you clarify if you will bother to read them? If not, then I am unlikely to respond to you in future. Knowing this will be more efficient for both of us. Thanks.
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Peace Bender.
In {711} if GOD was addressing only " Adam and his mate" HE would have use " Kouma" arabic for "two people". However GOD used "Koum" a plural ie more than two people.
Peace.
Salaam bro,
That's why I believe Adam is not a name of a person.
As per my current knowledge it is a collective. It can be used singular when it's talking about Adam and plural when it's talking about the ones in the collective Adam.Recently I was discussing this with MmKhan, he had a nice point. The persons with a name have a IMRAAT (=wife), like Firaun, Zakkaria, Nuh etc.
But Adam has not a IMRAAT but ZAWJ.Salaam,
Bender -
peace bender,
It was your own assumption that I take one half of the verse as parable and the other not.
Salaam Wakas,
Yes it was an assumption but for a reason. But you can help me out inshaAllah.
Can you please mark for me the first word were you think the story of Adam begins710 And We granted you dominion on the earth, and made for you in it a habitat; little do you give thanks!
711 And We created you, then We shaped you, then We said to the angels "Yield to Adam;" so they yielded except for Satan, he was not of those who yielded.And can you please mark for me here also the first word were you think the story of Adam begins
3867 Say "It is an awesome news."
3868 "From which you turn away."
3869 "I had no knowledge of the command up high, that they had quarreled."
3870 "It is only inspired to me that I am a clear warner."
3871 For your Lord said to the angels "I am creating a human being from clay."
3872 "So when I have evolved him, and blow of My Spirit in him, then you shall yield to him."
3873 The angels yielded, all of them,
3874 Except Satan; he turned arrogant, and became one of the rejecters.I linked to what is a parable, as you seemingly did not understand what a parable was. I googled short examples of parables and got many sites but here is one http//www.parablesite.com
Read any one, but let me give you an example of what I mean, e.g.
From Frog in a Milk-Pail (see link)
"A frog was hopping around a farmyard, when it decided to investigate the barn................"Is "hopping" a parable in of itself? Is "farmyard" parable in of itself? etc etc etc.
In case it is not clear, I am saying the story of adam is a parable, not every single term or component is a parable. Do you understand now?
I really don?t need links for what a parable is. I only try to understand your view. The problem is that we are not talking about a random word in the parable but we are talking about the main character of the story.
Just to be clear, is per your understanding Adam of 711 different from Adam of 1958 and/or 333?In any case, for my view, see http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596570.msg278091#msg278091
It looks like you have almost the same view as me except that you take the story as a parable.
Just for clarification, do you think the story of Adam is only parable OR it happened for real and it can be also seen as a parable?A "quick look" eh? Before I use my time/effort in replying to you with links, can you clarify if you will bother to read them? If not, then I am unlikely to respond to you in future. Knowing this will be more efficient for both of us. Thanks.
You give me a link to a chapter of a book with 15 pages. Do you expect that I make a study of it? I have read it yes, but I didn?t verify everything he said, that is what I meant with a quick look.
And to be honest it was dissapointing, it was not what I hoped for. I hoped it would be a comparison in the words, grammar, style etc between the story of Adam and some other story from the Quran. But what he did is comparing it with the story of Adam of the Bible. And besides that his reasoning and his understanding is hadith based. So sorry that I didn?t took your link serious, because these are not the kind of article?s I like to study when I study The Quran, they only confuse me.
One thing that was interesting for me is when he talked about the word . At the moment I am not sure how to understand ayaats and sentences which begin like this.
And ofcourse if you don't want to reply to me that is totally ok with me.
Salaam,
Bender -
We created "you" as in mankind, archetypal man. Relatively simple, no? Adam being the first man, as in God is saying "We created your essence/origin and then bid the angels to prostrate" or "We created you, man, then bid the angels to prostrate to he who We created". Your essence/origin is still you in the context given.
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w/salaam bender,
Can you please mark for me the first word were you think the story of Adam begins
I have not researched it but even if I did I think it would be unlikely I could say with any certainty from what word the story of adam/mankind begins. A reasonable guide is from the verse in which adam is first mentioned (if the verse or following verses discuss the story of course).
Just to be clear, is per your understanding Adam of 711 different from Adam of 1958 and/or 333?
My understanding only relates to the story of adam, not necessarily to any mention of adam, and/or terms associated with adam or others, i.e. when adam's story is being told.
Just for clarification, do you think the story of Adam is only parable OR it happened for real and it can be also seen as a parable?
I think it may have happened, but not literally in the way it is told. The way in which it is told reads to me like a parable, so to me, the message/concepts/lessons/etc is what is most important, not taking it literally.
