I renounced my faith in the divinity of the Qur'an today

Bigmo

Salam Farida

Originally I thought that the primary purpose for marriage was to establish and document a life-long commitment to one. But the more I read verses about marriage, the more I get the impression that nikah, is primarily for establishing rights and legalities with regards to inheritance and starting a family who would come to receive inheritance. So technically it's more about the establishment of family which necessarily or ideally needs a life-long partner then it is to establish a life-long partner since a family would benefit more from a marriage than a couple with no children.

Among His proofs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other, and He placed in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who think.

nimnimak_11

Salaam nimnimak

I too deduce similar understandings.
At the moment there are at least three threads running on this subject so its will condfuse things if I start discussing MMK but I agree with your view based on the Qur'an on this subject, even though I am a woman o .

Salam Farida

Thanks. I'm still waiting on the discussion with others to end in the other thread (I still need to hear back from Wakas to see if he has anything to add. Plus I need to respond to noon and mazhar) and then I'm planning on doing an update on the summary. Plus I need to respond to good logic but I'l do it in the other thread and post the link to him in this thread so as not to lead this conversation purely in that direction. I have an answer to him, but I want to triple check it first.

Salam Bigmo

Among His proofs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other, and He placed in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who think.

I'm not suggesting that marriage is exclusively for children and the start of families. I think it is of more benefit and relevance to a couple who plan on children (whether this be natural pregnancy or adoption) than a couple who do not have this same goal in mind.

Love and affection, tranquility and contentment can occur outside of marriage and a proposal/agreement to marriage can enhance this and add to the security of this.

But I don't think that it can be said that a couple who don't have wealth and resources should try for a child outside of marriage. Here I think it becomes more important, relevant and necessary that a couple marry. Inheritance and rights plus identity of the child ought to be established so that ideally, the child will not become an orphan.

I think there is a clear seperation and distinction between sexual activity and trying for a child and in my opinion the waiting periods and the refrain/abstain at 2433 must be referring to those that seek to start a family or try for a child. I say this because I have the following in mind

There are sperm donors and there are egg donors. Someone who seeks to have children, can do so without any sexual activity. For example men who want children could go after an egg donor and women who want children could go after a sperm donor. A couple can even be each other's donors and get pregnant without any sexual activity and without marrying and without having the resources to bring up their respective children.

Thus it needs to be made clear what the Quran's intention is with regards to the waiting periods, the purpose of nikah and what one should refrain/abstain from before marriage. In my opinion since the two are distinguishable (trying for children and sexual activity) it needs to be determined which the Quran is referring to and in my opinion, it is with regards to children andd pregnancies rather than sexual activity.

Gnosis

As-Salaam Alaikum,

A bit more of my input on the subject

In reality only two "religions" exist, and that's 1). Self Knowledge and 2). Spiritual Ignorance

Self Knowledge is Truth. To seek anywhere else for Truth (any other philosophy, religion, or way of life) other than Self Knowledge is only following conjecture. This is not a belief of mine, this I KNOW.

All the ancient scriptures and the Prophets that brought them, from Musa with the Torah, Krishna with the Gita, Buddha with his teachings, Isa with the Gospel, to Muhammad with the Qur'an (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all), when you read their uncorrupted teachings from the correct perspective they all teach about Self Knowledge. I can't stress Self Knowledge enough. It has nothing to do with religion, it has nothing to do with a wrathful sky deity, it's about the Oneness with ALL in existance and the understanding of this huge energy matrix we call reality and your place in it, as a microcosm within the macrocosm.

The problem is how people understand Allah and Islam. There are two huge distractions that lead people to the wrong understanding

The Bible - I know many here like to defend the authencity of the Bible saying that the Qur'an confirms these scriptures but that's simply not true. The Bible is not the original Torah/Gospel the Qur'an refers to. The Bible is a Jesuit/Masonic spell book created purposely to enslave your mind and percieve the Creator as some wrathful sky deity. In reality, the Bible makes you submit to the demiurge. Since most people see the god of the Bible as being the same God of the Qur'an (which they are not), they view the concept of Allah with the same understanding they have of YHWH given in the Bible. This is the error. (The concept of Allah is the God of Abraham, not the concept of YHWH, and they are not the same). When you couple this with
The Hadith - This only further adds to the confusion trying to have the proper understanding of Allah and Islam. Faithful Jinn I disagree that you should use the hadith as historical evidence for the hadith was also written by Jesuits/Masons. In the hadith they say the Prophet (pbuh) was white, when there is in fact clear real historical evidence that proves he was black. Not that the color of the Prophet (pbuh) matters in this discussion, I'm just pointing out to you that they aren't even reliable for historical proof. And of course everyone here already rejects them as being authorative on the deen.

Again, all the scriptures and their Prophets true teachings were about Self Knowledge. I will say this to you Faithful Jinn, I can tell by your post that you are sincere with wanting to walk the path of Truth, I support you on that and I say that to say this The Qur'an is the best scripture you can use on your journey towards Truth simply because it is uncorrupted and the most current and relevant, but IT IS NOT NECESSARY. A man can find Allah/Truth without ever having to read the Qur'an for the eternal law and scripture is already written inside every persons heart. It is simply a map, a great map at that! Sure, you can start in Washington D.C. and make it to Los Angeles without every looking at a map, but if you were to use a map it'd be much easier to maybe avoid a lot of obstacles on your journey. Whether you choose to use a map on your journey or not matters not, what matters is just the fact that you're on the journey! It's when you stay still that you are in error (and in your case "staying still" would be accepted a "faith" just because it feels or sounds good or just blindly accepting something as truth).

I support you brother, I wish I could have a one on one discussion with you about things. My suggestion, study Egypt and ancient cultures. A wise man once said "words like god are Greek or Latin, so if you study Egypt, you'll see the truth written by the masters".

GODsubmitter

As-Salaam Alaikum,

A bit more of my input on the subject

In reality only two "religions" exist, and that's 1). Self Knowledge and 2). Spiritual Ignorance

Self Knowledge is Truth. To seek anywhere else for Truth (any other philosophy, religion, or way of life) other than Self Knowledge is only following conjecture. This is not a belief of mine, this I KNOW.

All the ancient scriptures and the Prophets that brought them, from Musa with the Torah, Krishna with the Gita, Buddha with his teachings, Isa with the Gospel, to Muhammad with the Qur'an (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all), when you read their uncorrupted teachings from the correct perspective they all teach about Self Knowledge. I can't stress Self Knowledge enough. It has nothing to do with religion, it has nothing to do with a wrathful sky deity, it's about the Oneness with ALL in existance and the understanding of this huge energy matrix we call reality and your place in it, as a microcosm within the macrocosm.

The problem is how people understand Allah and Islam. There are two huge distractions that lead people to the wrong understanding

The Bible - I know many here like to defend the authencity of the Bible saying that the Qur'an confirms these scriptures but that's simply not true. The Bible is not the original Torah/Gospel the Qur'an refers to. The Bible is a Jesuit/Masonic spell book created purposely to enslave your mind and percieve the Creator as some wrathful sky deity. In reality, the Bible makes you submit to the demiurge. Since most people see the god of the Bible as being the same God of the Qur'an (which they are not), they view the concept of Allah with the same understanding they have of YHWH given in the Bible. This is the error. (The concept of Allah is the God of Abraham, not the concept of YHWH, and they are not the same). When you couple this with
The Hadith - This only further adds to the confusion trying to have the proper understanding of Allah and Islam. Faithful Jinn I disagree that you should use the hadith as historical evidence for the hadith was also written by Jesuits/Masons. In the hadith they say the Prophet (pbuh) was white, when there is in fact clear real historical evidence that proves he was black. Not that the color of the Prophet (pbuh) matters in this discussion, I'm just pointing out to you that they aren't even reliable for historical proof. And of course everyone here already rejects them as being authorative on the deen.

Again, all the scriptures and their Prophets true teachings were about Self Knowledge. I will say this to you Faithful Jinn, I can tell by your post that you are sincere with wanting to walk the path of Truth, I support you on that and I say that to say this The Qur'an is the best scripture you can use on your journey towards Truth simply because it is uncorrupted and the most current and relevant, but IT IS NOT NECESSARY. A man can find Allah/Truth without ever having to read the Qur'an for the eternal law and scripture is already written inside every persons heart. It is simply a map, a great map at that! Sure, you can start in Washington D.C. and make it to Los Angeles without every looking at a map, but if you were to use a map it'd be much easier to maybe avoid a lot of obstacles on your journey. Whether you choose to use a map on your journey or not matters not, what matters is just the fact that you're on the journey! It's when you stay still that you are in error (and in your case "staying still" would be accepted a "faith" just because it feels or sounds good or just blindly accepting something as truth).

I support you brother, I wish I could have a one on one discussion with you about things. My suggestion, study Egypt and ancient cultures. A wise man once said "words like god are Greek or Latin, so if you study Egypt, you'll see the truth written by the masters".

Piece @Gnosis,

I am replying to the part of your post which I colored red, to show that in the Bible Allah is in fact probably the variation of the same CONCEPT that is in the Qur'an!
Here you have it colored green and red in my post

Genesis 11

In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11

In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11

In the beginning YeYa created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11

In the beginning Elaha created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11

In the beginning Alaha created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11
.
In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11
(&#8054 .
In principal God created the heaven and the earth.

is literal translation of that should not be translated in English.

Gen 11
?
In the beginning?

Gen 11
In principio fecit Deus coelum et terram.
In the beginning God made heaven, and earth.

The Old Latin has fecit instead of creavit. This word is usually inscribed after the name of an artist or sculptor.

Gen 11
In principio creavit Deus caelum et terram.
In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

YeYa is Tanakh.info?s English transliteration of which is an abbreviation for the Tetragrammaton YHWH or Adonay. In the Targums, the name YHWH was replaced by two ?yods? with a ?waw? over them, thus , which letters are equal in value to YHWH (10+6+10 = 10+5+6+5= 26).

I agree that self-knowledge is very important, but it is not all, and someone's inclination to Esoterism can be as precious as dangerous without an initiated Teacher.
I apologize to @Faithful Jinn for a slight digression to the thread by my post.

johan

You do know that every human being that has believed in a religion has thought the same thing right? That is how religion began in the first place! Mankind has a natural tendency to rationalize the world around him and try to influence that world. This is the basis of religion.

That is your conjecture
I doubt conjectures

The ancient Aztecs used to think that if they didn't sacrifice a beating human heart to their gods on a regular basis that the sun would fail to rise the next day! So on a regular basis they would select one of their people, have the priests take them to the altar/temple/pyramid and they would brutally cut out their heart while they were still alive and offer it to their gods.

i don't believe what the Aztecs believe in

They continued to do this and the sun continued to rise. It was a perfectly good and consistent life and it was consistent with how they saw the world around them. Didn't make it true.

then don't believe in it
at the end of the day, if it becomes hard on you it's probably a sign that it's not the right thing..

Well that's because your basis of morality is based on the Qur'an. Your God doesn't think you know what right and wrong are and so he gives you law to follow. Nothing you think can be correct or incorrect it is all up to the Qur'an to think for you.

and you think you know?
good luck to that

You must think then that it is "correct" to own slaves and have sex with female war captives. Also you must think it was "correct" for a grown adult to marry a 6 year old child and marry her at age 9.

your assumption doesn't hold
there is no verse that talks about slaves the way you think of it
afaa is no slave
MMA is no slave
raqaba is slave
we are ordered to free the raqaba
you are mixing 7adeeth with truth, that is your fault not mine
see, the problem is that you have no faith, you have no optimism in Allah SWT

So you like the fact that there is an established guide and you don't have to struggle to come up with your own morals or concepts of right and wrong?
If the Qur'an is direct from God how can it be inconsistent?!

inconsistent is your understanding
that's why you live in this world, to weed out the misunderstood ideas
to experience the pain out of misunderstood concept so that you become enlightened

Surely if it is the direct word of God you must accept and follow every single letter as perfect and unchangeable wisdom for humanity.

How do you decide which part is consistent and which part is inconsistent?

by looking at His signs
by trying to see from His prespective of the world
only then can you be united in action but not necesserily united in soul

embrace the change
happy raya (taqabballah minna wa minkum, minal 3aideen wal faaizeen inshaallah)
won't be around for the next two-three weeks
take care

Zulf

@Gnosis

Very interesting

@GODSubmitter

The most important thing I think is the approach and underlying reasons and aims with the seeking.
When you seek something e.g. to escape you inner or to sooth your mind, or any other "symptom treating" path, then anything can become the drug/breather/escape/distraction. This goes for example for things like entertainment, drugs, sex, social events, tv, exercise, hobbies, spirituality, religion... i.e. anything. This is also when it is easy to start follow a certain teacher, instead of following ones path, towards betterment and insight. So, the dangers lie in oneself. Self ignorance can never sustain a straight path. Self knowledge is a must, i.e. it is of utmost importance to continuously work on and improve one's self knowledge, simply because your perceive your entire world through your senses and filter it through your mind. If you have poor self knowledge, then how can you get any good knowledge about the rest of the world? It all starts with oneself. That's why it is said "know thyself".

Gnosis

Piece @Gnosis,

I am replying to the part of your post which I colored red, to show that in the Bible Allah is in fact probably the variation of the same CONCEPT that is in the Qur'an!
Here you have it colored green and red in my post

Genesis 11

In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11

In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11

In the beginning YeYa created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11

In the beginning Elaha created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11

In the beginning Alaha created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11
.
In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth.

Gen 11
(&#8054 .
In principal God created the heaven and the earth.

is literal translation of that should not be translated in English.

Gen 11
?
In the beginning?

Gen 11
In principio fecit Deus coelum et terram.
In the beginning God made heaven, and earth.

The Old Latin has fecit instead of creavit. This word is usually inscribed after the name of an artist or sculptor.

Gen 11
In principio creavit Deus caelum et terram.
In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

YeYa is Tanakh.info?s English transliteration of which is an abbreviation for the Tetragrammaton YHWH or Adonay. In the Targums, the name YHWH was replaced by two ?yods? with a ?waw? over them, thus , which letters are equal in value to YHWH (10+6+10 = 10+5+6+5= 26).

Yes, what you poiunted out here is true the original text does say Elohim which can be tied to Allah, this is due to the story of Genesis coming from two different sources. The source from Genesis 1 is from the source that always refers to god as "Elohim" but the source from which Genesis 2 and the story of Adam, Eve and the garden comes from what they call the Yawhist source that always refers to god as YHWH. If you go back and reread the original text from the story of the garden you will see the other always calls god YHWH.

I wasn't necessarily referring to the semantics of YHWH/Allah though, I was more so referring to the concepts themselves and how they are understood from scripture. The understanding of YHWH and the understanding of Allah are two different concepts totally when broken down.

I agree that self-knowledge is very important, but it is not all, and someone's inclination to Esoterism can be as precious as dangerous without an initiated Teacher.I apologize to @Faithful Jinn for a slight digression to the thread by my post.

I am interested on what you meant by the underlined.

nimnimak_11

Peace good logic

I've further replied to you here at post number 765
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599777.760

I didn't want to derail the thread. Just wanted point out that evidence should be used.

Farida, thanks again for reminding me. Once I got into the discussion I forgot I was derailing the thread.

nimnimak_11

The Qur'an is both beautiful, powerful, eloquent, appealing, profound, and seductive. The one word I wish I could use to describe it is "true".

I won't get into a super detailed post but today I came to the conclusion that the Qur'an, the absolute crux of my faith, is not the divine word of God. I converted 3 years ago from a family with no Muslims. I read the Qur'an, fasted, and prayed. I loved everything about Islam and it was the most beautiful thing to happen to me. My life turned around and my way of thinking changed. I've had doubts every once in a while but never substantial ones. Only now have I truly sought to look at the Qur'an objectively and whether or not a perfect God sent this book as a message for all mankind for all time.

It comes after deep study and logical thought. I basically started feeling true doubt about a month ago. I kept going back to the source of my faith which is the Qur'an. I would always laugh derisively of how Christians put so much stock in the Bible when it is clearly full of contradiction and it is illogical so I knew I had to put my own scripture under the magnifying glass.

I don't even know if Christians care if some of the Bible is wrong but the crux of Qur'anic authority and relevance is that the Qur'an is the DIRECT WORD OF GOD. Every single verse is a miracle! Every single letter was uttered by the Divine. That means if even one LETTER of this book disagrees with science, reality, logic, or human reason then I must question the entirety of the revelation.

So I scoured the Qur'an for contradiction, immorality, and anything that would suggest that a being less than perfect created it. I used my own translation of the Qur'an, online testimonies, online videos, and different translations and found several verses which simply don't reconcile with my logic, reason, and rationality as a human being. These verses do NOT come from a perfect God and therefore I must reject the revelation's claim to divinity.

By comparing the ATTRIBUTES of God laid out by the Qur'an and contrasting it with the realities of the actual revelation and its message I can not honestly say that this book is from God. Despite how much I want to believe that the Qur'an and Islam are true, I must be honest with myself.

It truly pains me to say that I must now as a seeker of truth, renounce my faith in the divinity of the Qur'an this day.

Peace Faithful Jinn

I've read your first post and found it interesting. Hope you don't mind but I have not read the 27 of pages that have gone on here as I am pretty preoccupied with another thread.

I just wanted to know

What's your situation with regards to your belief in God? Did that come first then christianity or the other way around?
Do you think the book (quran) benefited you in terms of morality and the reverence of God? (i'm not saying that this would then be evidence that it's divine. Just curious about it's effect on others)
Was the Quran the crux of your faith in God? What's your current understanding of God (does it exist? Is it almighty, alknowing etc. or limited?)

I was an agnostic but more inlcined towards athiesm, then I became theistic then believing in the Quran. So from somone going from no faith to God then Quran, I'm interested to find out more about someone who gave thought and consideration before concluding the lack of divinity with regards to the Quran.

GODsubmitter

I am interested on what you meant by the underlined.

I meant what I wrote )

Faithful-Jinn

Peace Faithful Jinn

I've read your first post and found it interesting. Hope you don't mind but I have not read the 27 of pages that have gone on here as I am pretty preoccupied with another thread.

I just wanted to know

What's your situation with regards to your belief in God? Did that come first then christianity or the other way around?

Huh? Christianity? I'm not a Christian I was agnostic then I started believing strongly in God and then I converted to Islam. Now I'm reverting back to agnosticism.

Do you think the book (quran) benefited you in terms of morality and the reverence of God? (i'm not saying that this would then be evidence that it's divine. Just curious about it's effect on others)

The Qur'an benefited me greatly in morality and reverence for God. I became a different person and looked at life in a new way. Religion can be very effective in making people act more moral. I just don't think it's true.

Was the Quran the crux of your faith in God? What's your current understanding of God (does it exist? Is it almighty, alknowing etc. or limited?)

I reject the Abrahamic idea of God that Jews, Christians, and Muslims present. I believe they are all false and no different than any other religions that existed in human history. I don't believe any human being spoke to God or that God gave any human being a book.

I was an agnostic but more inlcined towards athiesm, then I became theistic then believing in the Quran. So from somone going from no faith to God then Quran, I'm interested to find out more about someone who gave thought and consideration before concluding the lack of divinity with regards to the Quran.

At first it was very difficult to accept the possibility that the Bible wasn't divine but after much research, thought, and prayer I concluded that the Qur'an, like every other book in human existence, is man made.

Raaajah

At first it was very difficult to accept the possibility that the Bible wasn't divine but after much research, thought, and prayer I concluded that the Qur'an, like every other book in human existence, is man made.

Life is full of confusions no doubt! Agnoist to Christian to muslim to atheist .......

Since you have concluded that Quran is man made then the burden of proof lies with you, just prove it so others can benefit

Faithful-Jinn

Life is full of confusions no doubt! Agnoist to Christian to muslim to atheist .......

Since you have concluded that Quran is man made then the burden of proof lies with you, just prove it so others can benefit

That was a mistype. I meant to say the Qur'an. I was never a real Christian. I simply believed in God and since I live in a Christian society that was how I thought about God. But I never really strongly believed in Christianity. I believed in God but not Christianity does that make sense?

As for the burden of proof there is nothing I can show you that you will accept as proof. Nobody can disprove religion. That's the whole thing about it. It's an unfalsifiable belief.

But just because it's unfalsifiable doesn't mean it's true.

I refuse to accept nonsensical stories and centuries old books as facts. There are a lot of holes in Islam and the Abrahamic faiths in general and we could discuss them for days but a believer will never accept them as issues.

I can only discuss and hope that other people who once had the same belief will be able to question the validity of their beliefs?

good_logic

Peace Faithful-Jinn.

What next? Please keep us informed if you wish to.

The Lord says there is no escape from HIM, except back to HIM. If not while we are living, then when we die.

Unless of course , we can stop ourselves from dying.

Best of luck.

Peace.

aabdul

If people can only believe if God wills them to believe (10.100) why would He then punish people who were destined to disbelieve by His own command? The believers would look at my skepticism and say I have a disease in my heart. If that is true then God put it there.

There is no substance in the above statement. Allah does not guide or send people astray whimsically based on his WILL. Such an understanding among many people is a BIG corruption in Islam.

I have seen you post stating you have read so many books and watched so many videos. Please read the following book by Allama Parwez. It will be another new life for you. Insha Allah

http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/kt/KT.htm

GODsubmitter

There is no substance in the above statement. Allah does not guide or send people astray whimsically based on his WILL. Such an understanding among many people is a BIG corruption in Islam.

I have seen you post stating you have read so many books and watched so many videos. Please read the following book by Allama Parwez. It will be another new life for you. Insha Allah
http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/kt/KT.htm

But why do you direct him (or anybody) to other books? Here the discussion is about the divinity of the Qur'an! Not about other books INSPIRED by Qur'an! Of course there are many books that inspired many other books in the history of literature. jedi

The point here is how a man fares with the book called Qur'an. Without auxiliaries!
It is the only book that is considered by so many people to be A LITERAL WORD of God every letter, dot and line! Is it?

I reject the Abrahamic idea of God that Jews, Christians, and Muslims present. I believe they are all false and no different than any other religions that existed in human history. I don't believe any human being spoke to God or that God gave any human being a book.

I agree, with one exception, ! and that is Jews claiming they witnessed collectively the event of Divine presence, having the recorded line of witnesses
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEg_Oys4NkA&feature=player_embedded
(Rational Approach To Divine Origin of Judaism)
The video is very well made and quite funny to watch! yes
(it was one-time-only event in history, quite another thing what they did afterwards).

I concluded that the Qur'an, like every other book in human existence, is man made.

I also think that!

Dear @Faithful Jinn,
Your posts are hugely intelligent and balanced, and very serious. I admire your honesty and sincerity in sharing your struggles and insights with us all.
It helps me very much because I am struggling with the same issues as you.
sun

nimnimak_11

The Qur'an benefited me greatly in morality and reverence for God. I became a different person and looked at life in a new way. Religion can be very effective in making people act more moral. I just don't think it's true.

Fair enough

At first it was very difficult to accept the possibility that the Bible wasn't divine but after much research, thought, and prayer I concluded that the Qur'an, like every other book in human existence, is man made.

I think the difference between you and I is that the Quran was the crux of your faith (hence the revert to agnosticism) but if the Quran is proven false (and it can be proven false if there are contradictions in it) this would do nothing with regards to my faith in God.

For me it's rationally difficult to reject God. The best defence I've heard is that the Universe is the way it is because there are an infinite amount of other Universes thus the exact conditions, laws, arrangement and organisation that is here is purely down to an inevitable outcome of infinity.

IMO this is less likely than to accept the existence of God. I can defend this in depth. But I don't not want to derail your thread.

With regards to the Quran, what did you make of the "scientific" verses? Such as the development of the baby in the mother's womb...the big bang....the mountains acting as stabalisers?

Also What did you make of 19?

nimnimak_11

Life is full of confusions no doubt! Agnoist to Christian to muslim to atheist .......

Since you have concluded that Quran is man made then the burden of proof lies with you, just prove it so others can benefit

The other options is to prove that it is not man made. The burden of proof is then on those who claim it is not man made. If we cannot provide such proof, then we cannot claim the book is divine/divinely inspired. This would be unfounded.

In the case that we cannot provide such proof, we have more reason to reject the divinity of the book then we have to accept it's divinity. Since if it was divine, it would provide signs.

Thus the burden of proof, is more upon the one who claims the book is divine than the one who claims it is not.
IMO there is proof.

Zulf

Dear all,

Too whom are we trying to prove things anyway?
The acceptance of reality doesn't depend on ways to prove it. It depends on us to have capacity to see it.
The problem is not in the proof. The problem is in us being blind or not.
Stop chasing external proof. Search inside yourself instead!

huruf

Dear all,

Too whom are we trying to prove things anyway?
The acceptance of reality doesn't depend on ways to prove it. It depends on us to have capacity to see it.
The problem is not in the proof. The problem is in us being blind or not.
Stop chasing external proof. Search inside yourself instead!

Indeed.

In the same way that you cannot give visual evidence to convince a blind, nor sound envidence to convince a deaf, it is useless to attempt to proof spiritual truths to people who do not have that sense or do not use it.

Salaam