Where is the Injeel?
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Salaamun alaikum Tay,
You quoted in the very first post of this thread, from the QXP
545 For Jews, We had decreed in the Torah, "Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and equal injury for injury". If one forgoes retaliation by way of charity, it shall absolve his or her imperfections. Whoever does not judge or rule according to what Allah has Revealed, such are the wrongdoers. (The Final Revelation of Allah, the Qur?an has updated Laws for all humanity for all Times. Exodus in the Bible does not leave room for forgiveness on the subject).
All, Im saying is in this verse, there's no 'jews' and 'updated laws of humanitty'. Indeed , all prophets were given al-kitaab (2/213) which shows that the laws of Allah never did change.
You wrote
In focusing on Jesus, it is well known that he did not deliver written scripture. So when we hear "We gave him the Gospel in which there was guidance and a light", we must assume that this was an insight that Jesus was granted. He was tapping into the information by the grace of Allah.Jesus was taught 'al-kitaab, al-hikmah, at-tauraat and al-injeel' so it seems that he must have had a written scripture.
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Peace M,
I see your point about the "Jews" not being in the ayah. But do you disagree that the Jews received the Taurat?
Also, the "updated laws for humanity" is in parentheses.
Lastly, you said,
Jesus was taught 'al-kitaab, al-hikmah, at-tauraat and al-injeel' so it seems that he must have had a written scripture.
I don't see how one equals the other. One can be taught without a book, especially when being taught by the Almighty Himself. The "Bible" was written by Paul, among others.
Peace,
Tay -
peace mq,
All, Im saying is in this verse, there's no 'jews' and 'updated laws of humanitty'. Indeed , all prophets were given al-kitaab (2/213) which shows that the laws of Allah never did change.
Are you saying the essential laws of the obligation/system/deen did not change OR every single law was identical for every prophet?
Wakas
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Salaamun alaikum,
Tay I see your point about the "Jews" not being in the ayah. But do you disagree that the Jews received the Taurat?
Al-quraan doesn't mention anywhere that Musa recieved at-tauraat. Isaa was said to have confirmed at-tauraat to Children of Israil. Coming to the Jews, I believe they recieved 'al-kitaab' as Musa recieved it in 32/23. Thing is, I don't believe at-tauraat is the original book of what is known as the Torah. The Torah to me, are just hadith about Musa and the Prophets.
Tay I don't see how one equals the other. One can be taught without a book, especially when being taught by the Almighty Himself. The "Bible" was written by Paul, among others.
The word 'al-kitaab' also refers to the Quraan itself (see 15/1, 27/1). Al-kitaab imho is simply the scription, written truths about the universe in the form of a book. Isaa was also taught al-kitaab, so imo, he was given a physical book.
WakasAre you saying the essential laws of the obligation/system/deen did not change OR every single law was identical for every prophet?
Yes, and that's all. This doesn't mean that each prophet recieved the same word-for-word revelation but rather each law mentioned in al-quraan was the same through time. Of course, I could never prove that with history. Don't forget though, that al-kitaab is also called al-hikmah (2/231) which are essentially the underlying metaphysic of all hukm, laws.
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Peace M,
Thing is, I don't believe at-tauraat is the original book of what is known as the Torah. The Torah to me, are just hadith about Musa and the Prophets.
Agreed.
The word 'al-kitaab' also refers to the Quraan itself (see 15/1, 27/1). Al-kitaab imho is simply the scription, written truths about the universe in the form of a book. Isaa was also taught al-kitaab, so imo, he was given a physical book.
Please clarify "was given a physical book". Do you believe that Allah authored text that was handed to Isa?
If so, the following needs to be reconciled
4153 The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said "Show us God in public,"
67 If We had sent unto thee a written (message) on parchment, so that they could touch it with their hands, the Unbelievers would have been sure to say "This is nothing but obvious magic!"
Peace,
Tay -
Salaamun alaikum Tay,
Please clarify "was given a physical book". Do you believe that Allah authored text that was handed to Isa?
No, he was taught, like Muhammad, a book. He wrote it down, just like Muhammad did. The book didn't fall from the heavens, no.
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Peace M,
I didn't mean to sound condascending and I hope I didn't come across that way. I respect your opinions in general and respectfully disagree on this particular topic.
If you would share, though, I'd be very interested. From the Christians I've spoken with including one of my very best friends, and from the limited research I've done, I've never heard of any claim that Jesus authored a book. The consensus is that Paul was the "Father" of Christianity.
Furthermore, most research that I've been privy to indicates that the Council of Nicaea in 325 ce was the birthplace of the Bible, the sifting through of possibly hundreds of "gospels" in search of the few that agreed with the barely established official position of the scattered bishops.
From where do you derive that Jesus wrote a book?
Peace,
Tay -
Salaam Tay,
I didn't mean to sound condascending and I hope I didn't come across that way. I respect your opinions in general and respectfully disagree on this particular topic.
I didn't think that for a second, Tay. Its good to exchange opinions because at the very least, we're stimulating each other to higher views.
If you would share, though, I'd be very interested. From the Christians I've spoken with including one of my very best friends, and from the limited research I've done, I've never heard of any claim that Jesus authored a book. The consensus is that Paul was the "Father" of Christianity.
I'm not such a big fan of history, I'm afraid. However, for academic purposes, i'd suggest you read Kamal Salibi's 'Who was Jesus A conspiracy in Jerusalem'. It'd be an interesting stimulation of thought.
From where do you derive that Jesus wrote a book?
From the Quran, that Jesus was 'taught al-kitaab' (3/4. Al-kitaab denotes something written, with the essence of God's system.
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Peace be upon you,
I am still pondering hard on this issue, but regarding "book", I see life itself as being al kitaab(the book). From time to time, a man can reach the level where he can UNDERSTAND the book of life, that is described as the BOOK being descended to him. This person can then write down a reading to help spread this understanding.
I take "tawrat and injeel" to be aspects of LIFE(al kitaab) , but I am just not sure what these aspects are.
