I renounced my faith in the divinity of the Qur'an today
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Not only that but it goes against every single translation of the Qur'an I have.
This does not mean that Pazuzu,s translation is wrong. If there is one universal meaning or understanding of Quran , there would not have been so many different translations. Which translation is acceptable or accurate , you have to decide using your own reason.
Food for thought - Why every single translation of the Qur'an you have , are against Pazuzu,s translation ?
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This does not mean that Pazuzu,s translation is wrong. If there is one universal meaning or understanding of Quran , there would not have been so many different translations. Which translation is acceptable or accurate , you have to decide using your own reason.
If the it's up to individual reason then reason is subjective and every person has a right to interpret it in their own way. I'm not saying Pazuzu's translation is wrong but I have no reason to believe it is correct either.
Food for thought - Why every single translation of the Qur'an you have , are against Pazuzu,s translation ?
Because established Islamic scholars had a different opinion than that of Pazuzu?
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And Qur'an & Islam, if they are truth, should stand and endure those "doubts" and prove them inconsistent, showing their superior universal truth accessible to all as God intended His message to be to all humankind and all the jinns, shouldn't they?
Sometimes the debate here infantly looks like "my toys are better then your toys"
I do not know what the problem is, whether it's the Arabic language, or something else, but Islam today is in a horrible shape and the results of Muslims and their countries is deplorable everywhere, so it seems the Qur'an has failed in its universal message of transformation of men... ???
God bless sun
As far as I am aware , those 'doubts' are answered and proved inconsistent by many authors in different forums , but doubters rarely listen or analyze those answers. They tend to stick to their opinion.
Right. It's human nature to boast that "his toys are better then others toys" , which is the main obstacle to find the truth.
so it seems the Qur'an has failed in its universal message of transformation of men... ???
I didn't find any ayat in Quran , where it claims that Quran is revealed for the purpose of transformation of men. If you got any , please share.
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Pazuzu would you care to translate verse 3350 for me?
Pickthall
O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.Clearly this verse says that Allah has made lawful those whom your right hand possesses out of the spoils of war.
Never did I say that whom your right hand possesses means sex slaves. It simply means slaves.
What does those under oath even mean? Are you saying they WEREN'T slaves? You think these people willingly became slaves after being defeated in battle?
Your translation makes no sense to me and it seems like a shallow euphemism or sugarcoating of the facts.
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Because established Islamic scholars had a different opinion than that of Pazuzu?
No wonder! Now I understand , why you loss faith in Quran? It is because , you analyze Quran through the eyes of established Islamic scholars , who are heavily biased with so called corrupted hadiths and follows blindly the footsteps of earler Imams.
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No wonder! Now I understand , why you loss faith in Quran? It is because , you analyze Quran through the eyes of established Islamic scholars , who are heavily biased with so called corrupted hadiths and follows blindly the footsteps of earler Imams.
No. I'm not a hadith follower nor did I interpret the Qur'an using only the traditional translations.
Some verses however are pretty clear and I realize the intellectual dishonesty of simply changing the meaning of verses I don't find reasonable.
In addition my losing faith in Qur'an was only a first step in questioning the concept of the Islamic God in its entirety. I don't even need to attack the Qur'an in order to argue against Islam however. The concept of the Abrahamic God alone is enough for me to question every Abrahamic faith.
But I'm done for the night I'll be back tomorrow and I'm awaiting Pazuzu's translation of verse 3350 for me I hope.
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Pickthall
O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.Clearly this verse says that Allah has made lawful those whom your right hand possesses out of the spoils of war.
Never did I say that whom your right hand possesses means sex slaves. It simply means slaves.
Peace,
That is the issue with most all translations and translators, they are not consistent, imprecise, and insert words that are not there like spoils of war and slaves nor can one tell what words are translated as such.
3350 O you the prophet indeed We made lawful to you spouses the ones who you gave their rewards and what possess your right hand from what bestowed The God to you and daughters your paternal uncles and daughters your paternal aunts and daughters your maternal uncles and daughters your maternal aunts the ones who migrated with you and woman believing if she devotes herself to the phrophet if intended the prophet that marry her exclusively to you from besides the believers hence we know what We made obligatory on them in their spouses and what possess their right hands not will be to you difficulty and is The God Forgiving Merciful
3352 not lawful to you the women from after and not that replace in them from spouses and if/had pleased you their beauty only what possess your right hand and is The God over each a thing Watchful
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FJ,
I am not advocating adoption of another belief system nor a belief in pixies and leprechauns rotfl
I was not suggesting you take on anything new.
What I was advocating was practice over study.
meditation over academia.
I have found periods of intense experiential study (meditation) to engender some very interesting insights and realisations.
You may question these (and it is good to do so) is it a chemical imbalance in my brain brought on by...?
Is it is really 'religious' or is it mental illness?
However what have you to lose?
I have found meditation exceptionally useful helping me both directly experience insights and intellectually grasp, what seemed unreconcilable dichotomies.
Again you have the internet at your disposal to see the medical and psychological benefits of meditation so I will not start posting evidence.Instead of thinking that I want you to take on any new beliefs (as I do Not) think of it this way...
I am just suggesting you apply some exercises that you do not even have to believe work!As for the universal consciousness and souls on a different spectrum thing, this is not something I personally adhere to. My beliefs are neither new age, all embracing or as woolly as you seem to think.
My suggestion is a practical application of exercises not a taking up of beliefs or religions.
Salaam Brother hmm
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Zulf,
I have found Shamatha and Vipassana when applied diligently and over time to have excellent results. I have also discussed these techniques in detail with (what I consider) to be learned and wise Muslim teachers who assure me they are neither incompatible nor contradictory to Islam.
In fact they have comparable techniques in some Islamic lineages.
I only mention these in particular as I have found them exceptionally efficacious!A good friend of Mine who is a Nihang Sikh took this advice and decided to on retreat with Goenka's Vipassana for 10 days (the courses are free and non religious) he has now incorporated the techniques into his study and prayer.
I could go on about why these techniques are useful/helpful to a Muslim however it would appear that most here are both able to research and think for themselves.
Salaam
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Zulf,
I have found Shamatha and Vipassana when applied diligently and over time to have excellent results. I have also discussed these techniques in detail with (what I consider) to be learned and wise Muslim teachers who assure me they are neither incompatible nor contradictory to Islam.
In fact they have comparable techniques in some Islamic lineages.
I only mention these in particular as I have found them exceptionally efficacious!A good friend of Mine who is a Nihang Sikh took this advice and decided to on retreat with Goenka's Vipassana for 10 days (the courses are free and non religious) he has now incorporated the techniques into his study and prayer.
I could go on about why these techniques are useful/helpful to a Muslim however it would appear that most here are both able to research and think for themselves.
Salaam )
Wow Muddy, you have a friend who is a Nihang.
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es,
I spent some small time in the Punjab at Amristsar and Ananpur sahib.
I am in the U.K at the moment and there are also some small number of Nihangs here.
As I am sure you are aware the history and influence of Islam on the Sikh faith and The Guru Granth Sahib has lead a few Sikh scholars to study the Holy Qu'ran. Also some Tibetan Buddhists consider Guru Nanak Dev Ji to be an Incarnation of Padmasambhava the Mystic from Oddiyana (Kashmir) and one of the main teachers in Vajrayana Buddhism.
The foundation stone of the Hari Mandir (Amristsar) was laid by Baba Sain Mir Mohammed Sahib (c. 1550 ? 11 August 1635) the famous Sufi saint.Salaam
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Sorry is someone has already made this point (i didnt read the whole topic - 37 pages!?, but with regards to God guiding whom He wills as i understand it this doesnt mean he makes ppl believe or disbelieve, it means once someone disbelieves and stops turning to Him He no longer guides him.
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Sorry is someone has already made this point (i didnt read the whole topic - 37 pages!?, but with regards to God guiding whom He wills as i understand it this doesnt mean he makes ppl believe or disbelieve, it means once someone disbelieves and stops turning to Him He no longer guides him.
Go read the topic on the 'Nature of God' area about predestination and see where I refuted that using the Qur'an.
The Qur'an supports predestination.
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Salaam,
I agree. I learn and shaped myself from my experiences and then when I find the same thing in AlQuraan I get the answer how to react to such situation. So, my experiences + AlQuraan made me shape up and make me the strong believer in AlQuraan and Allah. I don't think anything can turn me away from my Lord, except only if He wishes for me so.
This is how my believe becomes strong in AlQuraan as I found everything/ every incident happens in my life is already there in AlQuraan.
mmKhan
I know this is an old post/topic, but as I'm still new to my faith, I'm reading lots of previous discussions.
This post is exactly how I'm feeling too. I combine experiences with Qur'an which in turn, solidifies my faith/belief.
As a result, I grow stronger in faith and become a better person.