At what time we should break the fast?
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?.feed the poor and try to get involved in helping other people?..
Peace Emil,
May Allah?s blessings and support be upon you for your good work/deeds.
But the fact remains. If a muslim wants (because AQ states it is the best for him) to fast during the time of Ramadhan and he lives in a northern country he will, depending on what year, either have an "easy" or "difficult" fast. A muslim in a northern country will not fast under the same premises as a muslim in, for example, Singapore. This, I feel is fundamentaly wrong.
In this situation, I am of the opinion that you get the same reward for feeding a poor person as the person fasting (sincerely) in Singapore. But if you insist on fasting then you should move to another land where you can perform the fasting and then return to your home. Praise be to Allah Lord of the worlds.
920 - Those who believe, and emigrate, and strive in the cause of GOD with their money and their lives, are far greater in rank in the sight of GOD. These are the winners.
I also feel that the general rule to follow the nearest muslim country if the sun does not set in your location is wrong, as far as I understand this just a rule made with no reference to the AQ.
I agree. Allah tells us to feed poor people. Alternately, one can migrate out of the land but this is NOT necessary if you are not oppresed.
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Ayaha says that we remove the light therefrom Not the sun, some refractive light remains till sun goes a certain degrees below horizon.
siki
Peace siki,
If you are going to include reflective/refractive sunlight in the definition of night then you will not be able to end fast for days when the moon is reflecting sunlight from sunset till dawn. One is able to read book with the moonlight. You will be the violator of your own definition of night.
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In this situation, I am of the opinion that you get the same reward for feeding a poor person as the person fasting (sincerely) in Singapore. But if you insist on fasting then you should move to another land where you can perform the fasting and then return to your home. Praise be to Allah Lord of the worlds.
Dear Guest
I think we both have the same opinion, I too regard feeding a poor person or helping others in need equivilant to fasting in a situation like this. I also think going out of the country may be a good alternative if one insists on fasting, very good point Guest.
But some people suffer from the "fear-god" complex. Some people believe they must fast. I heard today about a friend of mine fasting 15hrs a day.....she is 7 months pregnant......Her fear of god is greater than her fear of hurting her unborn child...To me, being medically trained, that is absolutely horrible...Another incident was last year during Ramadhan when I had to intubate a somali kid who went down during football practice. He was completely dehydrated! Fasting of course....nearly killed him.
I feel obliged to make them understand they are putting themselves and others at risk. No, I must because of my profession....The only way I can reach these people is through the way of religion, they don't listen to any medical reasoning. I tried using the way of "do not put hardship" as in 2184-185, but because hardship is objective I find I am brickwall
So my hope was to find a way of interpretating the fasting times in another way than the more traditional literal way. Maybe that way I open their eyes to an alternative and a more sensible approach to the fasting aspect of Ramadhan.
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Peace siki,
If you are going to include reflective/refractive sunlight in the definition of night then you will not be able to end fast for days when the moon is reflecting sunlight from sunset till dawn. One is able to read book with the moonlight. You will be the violator of your own definition of night.
guest
salam
There are quite a few ayahs which can be interpreted either way, but i have clearly given you two ayahs in which usage of word can not be interpreted as "layal starting from sun set", should i repeat them once again? OK , i will do it once more for you, here they are
6-76 When the night fell, he saw a shining planet. "Maybe this is my Lord," he said. When it disappeared, he said, "I do not like (gods) that disappear
15-65 "You shall take your family during the night. Stay behind them, and make sure that none of you looks back. Go straight as commanded
And of course one more reason, Ghorobul shams is a very prime and clear marker, and has been used by allah in quran, if he meant for us to break fast at this time , He would have used this term, But he doesn't, HE has used Layal, so one thing is very clear, Ghorobul shams is not layal.
During my scrutiny of all relevant ayahs on this issue, above three points tilted the balance in favour of layal NOT starting at Ghorubul shams.
I cant give you more, or better proves than the above, so dig this issue at your own and make up your mind.
peace
siki
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guest
salam
There are quite a few ayahs which can be interpreted either way, but i have clearly given you two ayahs in which usage of word can not be interpreted as "layal starting from sun set", should i repeat them once again? OK , i will do it once more for you, here they are
6-76 When the night fell, he saw a shining planet. "Maybe this is my Lord," he said. When it disappeared, he said, "I do not like (gods) that disappear
15-65 "You shall take your family during the night. Stay behind them, and make sure that none of you looks back. Go straight as commanded
And of course one more reason, Ghorobul shams is a very prime and clear marker, and has been used by allah in quran, if he meant for us to break fast at this time , He would have used this term, But he doesn't, HE has used Layal, so one thing is very clear, Ghorobul shams is not layal.
During my scrutiny of all relevant ayahs on this issue, above three points tilted the balance in favour of layal NOT starting at Ghorubul shams.
I cant give you more, or better proves than the above, so dig this issue at your own and make up your mind.
peace
siki
Peace siki,
Shining planet Venus can be seen at sunset with naked eyes. In fact it can be seen during the daylight. So what is your point on 676.
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Heo and peace everyone.
I totally agree with Siki. The quran says this in 11114 - "And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember.".Here it is describing two ends of the DAY in which prayer should be perfomed. the two ends of the DAY are known by most muslims as Maghrib and Fajr prayers. Therefore the time period in which Maghrib prayer can be offered, is still part of the DAY.
However, in Quran 2187 we are told to break our fast in the LAYL, which means Night. Therefore, if i break my fast during the time which Magrhib prayer can be offered, then i am techinacally breaking my fast in the day.
Therefore we must break our fast when Magrhib time finishes. (Maghrib finishes when Isha starts, so we should break our fast in Isha time)
Peace )
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peace mino-taur,
You say on the one hand "two ends of the day", but on the other, say "is still part of the day". Is the day's end still part of the day?
An analogy...
If am standing underneath a doorway, separating room A (lets call this the "day" room) and room B (lets call this the "night" room), am I, according to you- in the day room?
- in the night room?
- in both rooms at the same time?
- at the edge of the day room and at the edge of the night room, thus strictly speaking, in neither?
- something else - if so, please elaborate.
Thanks.
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Peace Wakas
I see where you have Misunderstood me here. Right, this might take a bit of time as im not very good at conveying ideas and thoughts through the internet. The short awnswer to your question; "Is the day's end still part of the day?" is yes. The end of the day, is still part of the day. This is the same as saying, is the end of a rope still part of the rope?
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I will go with answer number 4. You would be in neither room.
Thanks for the reply.
Please note your rope analogy is not correct, as time/day is something continuous. For example, for your rope analogy to be more accurate you would have to say there is one rope joined together at the ends, so it is a continuous loop/circle, and there are different sections on the rope circle, e.g. night, day, twilight etc, the end/edge of one section is also the edge/end of another section. In other words "answer number 4".
Therefore, your original point is not valid in my view. And your answer to my analogy confirms it.
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Peace Wakas
Ok, let me explain it this way. Say you had a circular piece of rope. and there were five coloured sections (white, black, blue, red and green). Each colour represents a type of prayer (Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib, Isha and Fajr). Ok, now imagine that you walk around this rope at a steady speed, constantly. Now, everytime you are in a different section, you have to recite some of the quran. You do not have to recite the quran when you immediately enter a new coloured section, you can recite it, halfway through the coloured section if you want, or just before you enter a new coloured section!
Ok, now as i said earlier, the Quran shows us that Maghrib prayer time is done in the DAY. So, all of the Maghrib coloured section is part of the Day, including the very last part of it. Therefore, if you were fasting, whilst walking in the Maghrib coloured section, and decided to break your fast whilst walking in that section, then you would be breaking your fast in the DAY. This is not in concordance with the Quran, as it tells us to break our fast in the night.
This is how i sort of Understand in my brain. Also, if you have the time, please look at this link http//www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/breaking_fast.html
Sorry for the late reply Wakas, and sorry for the lengthy analogy. I'm not very good at explaning things!
Peace )
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peace mino-taur,
I do not consider your analogy sound, and you mistake the Arabic when you say "Quran shows us that Maghrib prayer time is done in the DAY", when it actually says "(at) the two edges/ends of the day". And as you answered in my analogy, being at the edge/end of one part is being at the edge/end of another part, thus in neither.
And thanks for the link to the quranicpath article, however it is poor. Firstly, it does not define what it means by "sunset", as later says "during sunset" as if that is the argument, does not mention redundant wording such as "ghasaq", implies "maghrib as-shams" can mean "sunset" when the verse clearly shows it means "setting" not "set", does not cover other relevant verses such as 3637 etc etc. Almost all of these issues have been discussed on this forum before.
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Peace to everyone who said peace.
I currently believe that fast time is after sunset
in 3637 we see that the sign of the night is by the INSALAKHA (gradual removal, or stripping) of light... (I.e Night still has some light in it. and that Night BEGINS when the light is removed = when the sun sets, light is gradually removed) -
Peace to everyone who said peace.
I currently believe that fast time is after sunset
in 3637 we see that the sign of the night is by the INSALAKHA (gradual removal, or stripping) of light... (I.e Night still has some light in it. and that Night BEGINS when the light is removed = when the sun sets, light is gradually removed)please explain further. Do you mean that you shall fast during night time?
