:: Adam? The first person or ....? ::

mmkhan

Salaam MMKhan,

Interesting Topic, I too thought about 'Creation Thing' many times and have few questions of my own though will put them in my next post. In the meantime you could ponder over 7 172-174 to get few answers to your questions or at least some sort of clues. Inshallah

Regards,

Salaam brother Mb,

Thanks for the aayaats. Sorry for not clarifying that those questions are for readers, as I am sure that Adam is not the first created person, but it is referring to all human or all men. I am really sorry if it confuses others too. If you note, I have already mentioned that "This is my personal understanding, please do check all aayaats carefully and don't fall deaf and dump 2573. Thanks for your time." at the end of my post. )

I will be looking forward for your questions, inshaAllah.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

MASOOMboy

Peace Brother MMK,

My questions are really basic ones but till date didn't get a convincing reply from many big Alims & muftis in the sub continent and middle east.

Hope I can get some insight on these question in FM. Inshallah

Q1 ) Where the story of Adam's creation taking place, on earth or in heaven.

230, And your Lord said to the angels "I am placing a successor on the earth." They said "Will You place in it he who would make corruption in it, and spill blood; while we praise by Your glory, and exalt to You?" He said "I know what you do not know."

Q1.a) If it is on earth then why God is telling them..
235, And We said "O Adam, reside you and your mate in the paradise, and eat from it bountifully as you both wish, and do not approach this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged.
236, So, the devil caused them to slip from it, and he brought them out from what they were in, and We said "Descend; for you are enemies to one another; and on the earth you will have residence and provisions until the appointed time."

Q1.b) If it in heaven then was Adam had a body like us humans with all biological short comings and requirements? Does heaven actually have oxygen in it or he was using a Oxygen cylinders as today's astronauts do ? paradise is in heaven or it's just that Jannah = garden ? and when he was asked to Descend from paradise to earth then, did he came in a space craft or something ??

238, We said "Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."
Q.2 ) what does "all of you" stand for in the above ayat? is it only adam , eve and satan as the mullahs have us believe ?

2 34 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for Satan, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.
235 And We said "O Adam, reside you and your mate in the paradise, and eat from it bountifully as you both wish, and do not approach this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged."

Q.3, As per traditional understanding of (Jews, Christians and Muslims )Adam and eve were living happily in the paradise for many years or at least some time until Satan came and made them eat the fruit of that forbidden tree. The question is was satan after rejecting to yield/submit to adam and becoming a rejecter was allowed to go/sneak into God's paradise and make adam and his mate disobey a direct command of God ?
I mean can satan wisper to people in Paradise as well ? I was hoping that satan wispering is a earthly phenomenon and it will end here on earth itself
Ok, Its getting really boring and long, I guess.
Will ask more once I get a reply for these questions.

regards,

mmkhan

Peace Brother MMK,

My questions are really basic ones but till date didn't get a convincing reply from many big Alims & muftis in the sub continent and middle east.

Hope I can get some insight on these question in FM. Inshallah

Q1 ) Where the story of Adam's creation taking place, on earth or in heaven.

Peace brother Mb,

Let me try giving you answers to your questions by my TheCreator's permission, inshaAllah.

Answer to Q1 It was taken place on earth, as you mentioned below, we are designed to live on earth not in heavens or in water.

230, And your Lord said to the angels "I am placing a successor on the earth." They said "Will You place in it he who would make corruption in it, and spill blood; while we praise by Your glory, and exalt to You?" He said "I know what you do not know."

This aayat clarifies that Allah was going to replace angels with humans on the earth, so they questioned. And that is what khalifa means.

Q1.a) If it is on earth then why God is telling them..
235, And We said "O Adam, reside you and your mate in the paradise, and eat from it bountifully as you both wish, and do not approach this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged.
236, So, the devil caused them to slip from it, and he brought them out from what they were in, and We said "Descend; for you are enemies to one another; and on the earth you will have residence and provisions until the appointed time."

Jannat simple means garden or more better definition of Jannat can be seen in 20117-119. Adam i.e., human were given place in Jannat but they followed Shaitaan and thrown out of Jannat.

Q1.b) If it in heaven then was Adam had a body like us humans with all biological short comings and requirements? Does heaven actually have oxygen in it or he was using a Oxygen cylinders as today's astronauts do ? paradise is in heaven or it's just that Jannah = garden ? and when he was asked to Descend from paradise to earth then, did he came in a space craft or something ??

rotfl

No oxygen cylinders needed as we all were created and designed to live on the earth.

238, We said "Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."
Q.2 ) what does "all of you" stand for in the above ayat? is it only adam , eve and satan as the mullahs have us believe ?

All of you means, we all, please check 711 for details or check my original post of this thread, it is already explained. Unfortunately mullahs don't know the next part of the same aayat i.e.,238. If Shaitaan, Adam and Eve were asked to get down, then what is the purpose of saying to all "so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."? Was it valid for Shaitaan too?

In 238 the word used is ihbitoo that you have translated above as descend all of you. This word itself clarifies that we were not asked to get down from heavens as that is called naazil not ihbitoo, ihbitoo means to get down from a raised area. Please check ihbit said to Nooh in 1148, asking him to get down from ship.

2 34 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for Satan, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.
235 And We said "O Adam, reside you and your mate in the paradise, and eat from it bountifully as you both wish, and do not approach this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged."

Q.3, As per traditional understanding of (Jews, Christians and Muslims )Adam and eve were living happily in the paradise for many years or at least some time until Satan came and made them eat the fruit of that forbidden tree. The question is was satan after rejecting to yield/submit to adam and becoming a rejecter was allowed to go/sneak into God's paradise and make adam and his mate disobey a direct command of God ?

234 did not say except for Satan, but it says Iblees.

If you make this jannat on heavens, even then Shaitaan is allowed to enter it. Please note, in all aayaats Shaitaan is the word used when he makes them eat that tree, no mention of Iblees in any aayat AFAIK. To know who Shaitaan is, please check 214.

I mean can satan wisper to people in Paradise as well ? I was hoping that satan wispering is a earthly phenomenon and it will end here on earth itself o
Ok, Its getting really boring and long, I guess.
Will ask more once I get a reply for these questions.

regards,

I hope I answered all your questions inshaAllah.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

StopS

Are people making this too complicated?
We know there are many creation myths where humans are created from dust, mud or clay which are far older than the Bibles. https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_of_man_from_clay
We also know that humans should live on this planet if they want to move around without space-suits. We also know that the female gender is formed first and then the male is derived from this in biology. http//www.baby2see.com/gender/internal_genitals.html
So the creation stories, which are more allegorical and not to be taken literally, show the power and capabilities of the god of the Muslims and provide a spiritual explanation, not a factual one.

Also, it is impossible to describe the process of the origin of mankind with only 1 male and 1 female. Genetics would not allow this. So this has to be allegoric.

good_logic

Peace StopS.

Some things cannot be ignored like

Did we exist before this creation? "I had no knowledge previously, about the feud in the High Society.

What is "original sin"?
Why? Recall that your Lord said to the angels, "I am placing a representative on Earth." They said, "Will You place in it one who will spread evil therein and shed blood, while we sing Your praises, glorify You, and uphold Your absolute authority?" He said, "I know what you do not know."

When did this happen? Did I not covenant with you, O Children of Adam, that you shall not serve/worship the devil? That he is your most ardent enemy?

Why did God create death then life? The One who created death and life for the purpose of distinguishing those among you who would do good works. He is the Almighty, the Forgiving.

What does this mean? Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."

And this in relation to us and Jinns? We created the human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay. As for the jinns, we created them, before that, from blazing fire.

We said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan. He became a jinn, for he disobeyed the order of His Lord. Will you choose him and his descendants as lords instead of Me, even though they are your enemies? What a miserable substitute!

Recall? Recall that we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan; he refused.

GOD chooses when we are born? Your Lord is the One who creates whatever He wills, and chooses; no one else does any choosing. Glory be to God, the Most Exalted. He is far above needing partners.
Why this?
O children of Adam, do not let the devil mislead/dupe you as he did when he caused the eviction of your parents from Paradise, and the removal of their garments to expose their bodies. He and his tribe see you, while you do not see them. We appoint the devils as companions of those who do not believe.
What is a human companion? The companion said, "Here is my formidable testimony."

Finally is there a connection to this? God does not forgive idolatry, but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up idols beside God, has forged a horrendous offense.

And this? The One who created death and life for the purpose of distinguishing those among you who would do good works. He is the Almighty, the Forgiving.

Somehow it is not so simple!

Peace.

StopS

Peace StopS.

Some things cannot be ignored like

Did we exist before this creation? "I had no knowledge previously, about the feud in the High Society.

So you quoted some sentences from the Koran, all about the stories I was referring to. And what is your point?

good_logic

Peace StopS.

They are questions for all in the forum to ponder.

I was not specifically asking you to answer them.

I am currently studying the topic and I was trying to cover some areas that need clearing up.

Thank you anyway.

Peace.

noshirk

salam

I will propose another interpretation

Adam is the first man. He lived between 100 000 and 200 000 years ago.
Science says that our species appeared in this period.

In that period, existed on earth, other species like Neanderthal.
Scientific hypothesis tell us that homo sapiens (our species) mixed with Neanderthal. This can resolve the problem of incest in adam Family.

Now, for the question why are we punished for a fault committed by adam and his wife.
It is a very difficult question.
I think that means that human kind is in solidarity in their destiny.
Worship of the ancient is condamned by Quran and i think it it is why God wanted to begin our story by a fault of our common ancestor.

However, expulse from heaven was already planned since the beginning.
230 And your Lord said to the angels "I am placing a successor on the earth." They said "Will You place in it he who would make corruption in it, and spill blood; while we praise by Your glory, and exalt to You?" He said "I know what you do not know."

so the question become, why are we here ?

peace

inocentguy233

Hazrat Adam alihi salam is first person and first prophet
The Quran gives its account of dam in the surah al-Baqara (2)30-39, al-A'raf (7)11-25, al-Hijr (15)26-44, al-Isra (17)61-65, Ta-Ha (20)115-124, and Sad (371-85.

MASOOMboy

Peace,

How about some very radical understanding of Quran with regards to Adam ?? I personally think that the below mentioned rendering of Adam's story make lots of sense and logic.

Surah Baqara 2 30-39

Moreover call to mind the time when your Lord informed the chiefs in the land that I am going to raise in the land an administrator. They said, are You going to contain thereby such a people as create fights and wars causing bloodshed even though we strive hard to establish Your rule in the land in order to remove all ills from between us through Your rule? He said, I will make evident in due course that which is not yet obvious to you.
For that reason Allah made evident to Adam the names of all the tasks related to departments of the administration and their related full detail and then He put them before the chiefs and said, tell me the names of all the tasks related to departments of administration as to what they are all about if you are truly capable of carrying them out.
They said, free of all problems is Your rule and we have no knowledge beyond that which You have granted us, indeed You make things obvious wisely.
He said, O Adam, inform them about the names of their tasks related to the departments of the administration. After he had taught them the names of their tasks related to the departments of the administration Allah said, did I not inform you that I make evident secrets of the heavens and the earth? That is how I will make obvious through your actions all that you reveal and all that you conceal.
That is why we said to the chiefs, accept for Adam position of chief administrator and they all accepted that save Iblees, he instead rebelled because he was of those who reject and oppose rule of Allah.
Therefore we said, O Adam, dwell you and your people in the blissful kingdom and participate therein as you desire but do not get involved in disputes and fights because you will become one of those who breach divine constitution.
But Iblees conspired against Adam and his people and brought them out of blissful state of existence in which they were. For this reason we said, live as you wish with animosity in some of you for others or friendship and face the consequences, in the earth for all of you is a dwelling place with livelihood for a set time.
At length Adam realised some guidelines from his Lord so he turned to His guidance, indeed He is the one Who guides again and again.

3 That is how We said, live therein all of you together in peace as and when there comes to your mind the need for guidance from Me because any people who follow My guidance for such will be neither anxiety nor suffering through regrets.

And those who will reject and oppose Our set tasks such people will end up in fire of hatred against each other and in that state they will remain for as long as they live in that state of mind.

Comments, Suggestions and also Criticism are welcome

Regards,

StopS

Peace StopS.

They are questions for all in the forum to ponder.

I was not specifically asking you to answer them.

I am currently studying the topic and I was trying to cover some areas that need clearing up.

Don't you see the questions are nonsensical? There is no such thing as "original sin" or children of Adam. This is spiritual, not physical.

Think about it in another way
A god is all-knowing, so he knows what information I need in what form.
A god is all-powerful so he can deliver the information I need in that form.
A god is all-merciful so this information will be delivered so punishment is never necessary.

357

Peace,

How about some very radical understanding of Quran with regards to Adam ?? I personally think that the below mentioned rendering of Adam's story make lots of sense and logic.

Surah Baqara 2 30-39

Moreover call to mind the time when your Lord informed the chiefs in the land that I am going to raise in the land an administrator. They said, are You going to contain thereby such a people as create fights and wars causing bloodshed even though we strive hard to establish Your rule in the land in order to remove all ills from between us through Your rule? He said, I will make evident in due course that which is not yet obvious to you.
For that reason Allah made evident to Adam the names of all the tasks related to departments of the administration and their related full detail and then He put them before the chiefs and said, tell me the names of all the tasks related to departments of administration as to what they are all about if you are truly capable of carrying them out.
They said, free of all problems is Your rule and we have no knowledge beyond that which You have granted us, indeed You make things obvious wisely.
He said, O Adam, inform them about the names of their tasks related to the departments of the administration. After he had taught them the names of their tasks related to the departments of the administration Allah said, did I not inform you that I make evident secrets of the heavens and the earth? That is how I will make obvious through your actions all that you reveal and all that you conceal.
That is why we said to the chiefs, accept for Adam position of chief administrator and they all accepted that save Iblees, he instead rebelled because he was of those who reject and oppose rule of Allah.
Therefore we said, O Adam, dwell you and your people in the blissful kingdom and participate therein as you desire but do not get involved in disputes and fights because you will become one of those who breach divine constitution.
But Iblees conspired against Adam and his people and brought them out of blissful state of existence in which they were. For this reason we said, live as you wish with animosity in some of you for others or friendship and face the consequences, in the earth for all of you is a dwelling place with livelihood for a set time.
At length Adam realised some guidelines from his Lord so he turned to His guidance, indeed He is the one Who guides again and again.

3 That is how We said, live therein all of you together in peace as and when there comes to your mind the need for guidance from Me because any people who follow My guidance for such will be neither anxiety nor suffering through regrets.

And those who will reject and oppose Our set tasks such people will end up in fire of hatred against each other and in that state they will remain for as long as they live in that state of mind.

Comments, Suggestions and also Criticism are welcome )

Regards,

You got there before me........ah.well!

bravo

357

Don't the guy's who keep babling, Adam and his wife where the first of........ that would be connoting a incesteous relationship, can they accept such a thing among there brothers and sisters or among their own children?

God Forbid.

I think the laws of God are unchanging and for all time, arn't they?

hmm

good_logic

Peace StopS.

Do you believe the Qoran? I am addressing those who believe Qoran is from GOD.

I have given verses from the Qoran along with every question!

God is talking to " Humans", there is a verse that says " Shall We just ignore the fact that you transgressed the limit"?

That to me means " original sin" What does it mean to you?

You do not have to get involved if you do not believe that Qoran is the word of GOD.
Thank you.
Peace.

357

Peace StopS.

Do you believe the Qoran? I am addressing those who believe Qoran is from GOD.

I have given verses from the Qoran along with every question!

God is talking to " Humans", there is a verse that says " Shall We just ignore the fact that you transgressed the limit"?

That to me means " original sin" What does it mean to you?

You do not have to get involved if you do not believe that Qoran is the word of GOD.
Thank you.
Peace.

Logic to see what the transgression was carry on reading further down the sura;

Wa-ith qala ibraheemuli-abeehi waqawmihi innanee baraon mimma taAAbudoona

Tahir ul Qadri

( &#1605 ( &#1746
Yousuf Ali Behold! Abraham said to his father and his people "I do indeed clear myself of what ye worship

It is the slaughtereing the children , Remember Ismail, Moses yes

good_logic

Peace 357.

Completely different subject? You might as well suggest the answer is 4 chapters later?

This transgression is to do with all humans. GOD then straight away offers the redemption

The Plan for Redemption
436
We have sent many a prophet to the previous generations.

437
Every time a prophet went to them, they ridiculed him.

Repentance from the " original sin" is required in this life. To uphold the authority of " GOD ALONE"?

Peace

357

Walootan ith qalaliqawmihi ata/toona alfahishata ma sabaqakum bihamin ahadin mina alAAalameena

Tahir ul Qadri

Tahir ul Qadri

Yousuf Ali "For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."

Same words are being used here;

Lut, Abraham - it is the same story - transgression beyonds bpounds as in 43.5

Nothing worse then slaughetering kids.

peace

good_logic

Peace 357.
Same words, different transgressions!

Peace.

Shirin

You really make very confusing threads.

mmkhan

You really make very confusing threads.

Salaam Shirin,

If you are saying this to me, then please clarify your doubts by asking them, inshaAllah, I will try to clarify it if I have knowledge about it. But please let me know what confuses you.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan