:: 'atiAllaha wa 'atialRasoola :: Wrong quotes ::
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Salaam all,
I apologize if I have posted this in wrong category, moderator(s) may please put this thread in correct category if they find it wrongly posted. Please note that this topic is not about Hadiths. Thanks.
'atiAllaha wa 'atialRasoola is the term always used by Sunnis, Shias and others in order to mix Hadiths with AlQuraan. We will see the aayaats mostly and strongly used by those sects to mix Hadiths with AlQuraan below, inshaAllah.
332
332 Say Obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, then Allah does not love the rejecters.Is this 'AL+RASOOL' referring to Prophet Mohammed? The answer is "NO".
3132
3132 And obey Allah and the messenger so that you may obtain mercy.Is this 'AL+RASOOL' referring to Prophet Mohammed? The answer is "NO".
459
459 O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the messenger and those in authority among you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to Allah and to the messenger if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.Are these 'AL+RASOOL' referring to Prophet Mohammed? The answer is "NO".
469
469 And whoever obeys Allah and the messenger will be among those whom Allah has blessed from the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the upright. What an excellent companionship!Is this 'AL+RASOOL' referring to Prophet Mohammed? The answer is "NO". There are many more aayaats that they wrongly use to prove Hadiths as the obeying of Prophet Mohammed.
Other aayaats are 4115, 567, 599, 7157, 824,...... 4733, 578,.... And very commonly and strongly 597 is used.
597
597 Whatever Allah bestowed upon His messenger from the people of the towns, then it shall be to Allah and His messenger, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. And you may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he prohibits you from taking. And be aware of Allah, for Allah is mighty in retribution.This is aayat is used very frequently to prove Hadiths, but is this 'AL+RASOOL' referring to Prophet Mohammed? The answer is "NO".
Please note that all the aayaats that Sunnis, Shias and other sects use to prove Hadiths talks about a 'maarifa rasool' that means 'AL' + 'Rasool' or 'The Rasool' and it is NOT referring to Prophet Mohammed because Prophet Mohammed was a 'nakira rasool' that means ONLY 'Rasool' , here is the proof with 'the name' from AlQuraan
3144
3144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many of the messengers have passed before him. If he dies or is killed will you turn back on your heels? And whoever turns back on his heels, he will not harm Allah in the least. And Allah will recompense the thankful.You can see there is no 'Al + Rasool' but only 'Rasool' in Arabic text of AlQuraan with the name 'Mohammed'.
Another proof
567
567 O AlRasool, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord, and if you do not then you have not delivered His message; and Allah will protect you from the people. And Allah does not guide the rejecting people.To Al+Rasool, Allah said He will 'protect' him from the people. But to Prophet Mohammed He said
3144
3144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many of the messengers have passed before him. If he dies or is killed will you turn back on your heels? And whoever turns back on his heels, he will not harm Allah in the least. And Allah will recompense the thankful.This is because Allah never said that He will protect 'nakira rasools' from people. As in 570
570
570 We have taken the covenant of the Children of Israel and We sent to them messengers. Every time a messenger came to them with what their souls did not desire, a group of them they would reject, and a group of them they would kill.I don't find any aayat in regards to killing 'AlRasool'.
Remember! I am not saying that we don't have to obey 'a messenger' but I wanted to point out the aayaats wrongly used to prove hadiths are mentioned above. And to note the difference between 'Rasool' and 'AlRasool'. A messenger or 'nakira rasool' is also send to be obeyed.
464
464 We do not send a messenger except to be obeyed with the permission of Allah. And had they come to you when they had wronged themselves and sought the forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger sought forgiveness for them, they would have then found Allah to be Pardoning, Merciful.May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother,
Peace M.M.Khan
Very interesting points.But if this Al Rasool is not Prophet Mohammed who is it?If there is no Al Rasool around,are those Ayats not valid for us?
JavedAlRasool is not Prophet Mohammed (AS) that is very clear from the above aayaats. But who is AlRasool? The answer is, sorry, no idea yet. We have to wait until Allah clarifies it for us.
10109
10109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until Allah judges. And He is the best of judges.May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Question for MMKhan, If this is true that Quran was revealed on Mohammed (SAW) 1,400+ years ago, then why it is not possible to conclude that Al+Rasool was referred to Mohammed (SAW)?
Please read the first post on this thread carefully, Allah knows who is Rasool and who is AlRasool, I am not the one who differentiate it but Allah does. Please look at the Arabic text used in those aayaats.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
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mmkhan
nice post. Please explain how do you differentiate between "rasool" and "alrasool" . Are you saying that "AlRasool" is different than "Rasool" ?
Secondly, please explain the last verse quoted 464 , how it is used to support your argument ?
Brother Rameez,
Thanks! Difference between Rasool and AlRasool is already clarified in original post. Now to your second question...
It says
464
464 And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.Now please tell me what means obey and how do we do that now?
mmKhan
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Brother Rameez,
Thanks! Difference between Rasool and AlRasool is already clarified in original post. Now to your second question...
It says
464
464 And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.Now please tell me what means obey and how do we do that now?
mmKhan
The verse is very clear that it is talking about previous messengers who WERE obeyed by their people at THEIR OWN time.
Please explain what is your explanation of "rasool" vs "AlRasool"
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The verse is very clear that it is talking about previous messengers who WERE obeyed by their people at THEIR OWN time.
Please explain what is your explanation of "rasool" vs "AlRasool"
Thank you very much for your clear and clean answer brother. I totally agree with you.
Now, please check again my original post on this thread to see the difference between Rasool and AlRasool. At least you will come to know that all aayaats that is use today to prove hadith are misquoted because all refers to AlRasool, that means not referring to Mohammed as he is not AlRasool but just a Rasool.
If you have any more questions, please feel free to put them here.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
peace
mes?sen?ger (msn-jr) 2. A bearer of news.
I believe that Al Rasool was angel Gabriel (297 SAY "Whosoever is an enemy of Gabriel" - who, verily, by God's leave, has brought down upon thy heart this which confirms the truth of whatever there still remains , and is a guidance and a glad tiding for the believers), then Prophet Mohamed when he was in this world, but after leaving this world, The Qur'an became Al Rasool (the messenger/bearer of the message) .
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The evidence is Muhammad's saying in 332.
"Say Obey Allah and obey AlRasoo......"
If we using logic, why Muhammad not say like this "Obey Allah and Obey me".This means AlRasool not ponting Muhammad, but can be another Roosul like Noah, Abrahm etc.
By using word Al or Maha before Roosul, this means this Roosul isn't the ordinary one.This mean he is Roosul of the Roosuls.
So Al Roosul is possibly Abraham himself.Because Abraham is first Rasul who retrieve Islamic teaching and Muhammad was ordered to obey Ibrahim (6161).
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Rasul is undeterminate and al rasul is determinate, that is, who alrasul is depends on the antecedent to which the al, determinate article, goes back. It can be Muhammad, it can be any messenger that may be the antecedent in the previous text. "Al rasul" is not a name as oposed to rasul which would be another name, al rasul is the same name but determinate. Rasul is a messenger, any messenger, al rasul is the prophet to whom previously reference has been made. What I do not see at all is the need to divest categorically Muhammad of the possibility of being a grammatical antecedent, just like that, by definition.
On the other hand, the obey the messenger or obey a messenger comes to the same. The question of not being able anybody to obey any messeger, determinate or indeterminate and in fact anybody is that if the person who is supposed to give the orders is dead, there is no way that you can obey him or her. Out fo the question. Another thing is if he had left a will. You carry out the will if you are in charge of it. As far as I know we do not have an authentic will of any prophet, so no chance either of carrying out his will, specially after so many centuries.
But we can follow the teachings transmited by him which we consider authentic judging form its content.
Also, to wits, Ta3a, does not necessarily mean to obey. It may mean to obey if an order is given, but where no order is given there is no obey. May be follow or pay heed or take into acount but not obey. It is really a desease this obssession of "obey the messenger", even when there is not aven any order given, and without bother to look into the logic of the thing.
Obey, obey, obey, life is all obey, like if they sell in the malls and freat surfaces and all that. Obey two and get one free! ya salaam!
Salaam
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Salaam,
I believe that Al Rasool was angel Gabriel
then Prophet Mohamed when he was in this world, but after leaving this world
The Qur'an became Al Rasool
None of these points are supported by alQuraan, if so, please get back with direct references.
The evidence is Muhammad's saying in 332
By using word Al or Maha before Roosul, this means this Roosul isn't the ordinary one.This mean he is Roosul of the Roosuls.
So Al Roosul is possibly Abraham himself
Because Abraham is first Rasul
alQuraan supports none of these points, and they cannot be related with aayat.
Rasul is undeterminate and al rasul is determinate
al rasul is the prophet to whom previously reference has been made.
You carry out the will if you are in charge of it.
But we can follow the teachings transmited by him which we consider authentic judging form its content.
Ta3a, does not necessarily mean to obey. It may mean to obey if an order is given, but where no order is given there is no obey.
None of these points are supported by alQuraan.
There are many types of rasools mentioned in alQuraan, like RasoolAN, alRasool, RasoolAllah, each of them has different meaning. As we were talking about alRasool in this thread, please take a look at what "al" means by clicking hear to understand what alRasool is referring to.
Regarding Muhammad, you can take a look here.
Hope this may help inshaAllah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace with you all, sun
AL = available, now
doesn't it focus on Mohammed a.s, because he was available at that time?
We can't obey massenger now because he isn't here now but the people in that time had to.
On my point of view, the verses with AlRasoul are about Mohammed a.s. Or they are maybe about Gibril and Mohammed should obey Gibril. God Mercifully knows better. -
Peace with you all, sun
AL = available, now
doesn't it focus on Mohammed a.s, because he was available at that time?
We can't obey massenger now because he isn't here now but the people in that time had to.
On my point of view, the verses with AlRasoul are about Mohammed a.s. Or they are maybe about Gibril and Mohammed should obey Gibril. God Mercifully knows better.?AL? in Arabic language works exactly the same as ?THE? in English language. They both are DEFINITE ARTICLES. ?THE? comes before a previously specified noun as opposed to ?A? or ?AN? which generalize the noun coming after them, e.g. ?THE man? and ?A man/AN orange?.
?AL?, works just the same in Arabic language, e.g. ?ALkitaabu?, which means ?THE book?, vs. ?kitaabun?, which means ?A book?.
So, ?AL? and ?THE? are interchangeable in comprehension of the meaning.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace with you all, sun
AL = available, now
doesn't it focus on Mohammed a.s, because he was available at that time?
We can't obey massenger now because he isn't here now but the people in that time had to.
On my point of view, the verses with AlRasoul are about Mohammed a.s. Or they are maybe about Gibril and Mohammed should obey Gibril. God Mercifully knows better.Peace Birdy,
Red If there was any Muhammad, then alQuraan was given to him AT THAT TIME, but NOW, it is given to us, so there is no Muhammad. Unfortunately, when we look an aayat we add Muhammad by default in that aayat, why? When Allah wanted to say Ibrahim, Musa, Isa, Yousuf, Younus, Dawood, Sulaiman..... He said it clearly, but there is no address of Muhammad like
- Yaa Muhammad
- Muhammad, telll your people
- Muhammad said to ...
- Muhammad was given ...
- Obey Allah and Muhammad
You will never see such statements in alQuraan. It is very simple to understand aayaat of alQuraan in straight way as what is said in it, without adding Muhammad or anyone else. Allah talks to the reader of alQuraan, and we divert it to Muhammad, there we are finding it hard to understand aayaat of alQuraan.
Blue Why do you think Allah kept those aayaat in alQuraan now when He knows that messenger is not available now? And if it was referring to people at that time, then why it was not omitted from alQuraan for us? Surely, it is not to confuse us, right?
Green Allah never said, Muhammad is alRasool, in fact it is illogical to say in alQuraan as it has to remain for ever nor it says that alRasool is Jibrael. Without having any evidence from alQuraan, we will be saying lie on Allah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
?AL? in Arabic language works exactly the same as ?THE? in English language. They both are DEFINITE ARTICLES. ?THE? comes before a previously specified noun as opposed to ?A? or ?AN? which generalize the noun coming after them, e.g. ?THE man? and ?A man/AN orange?.
?AL?, works just the same in Arabic language, e.g. ?ALkitaabu?, which means ?THE book?, vs. ?kitaabun?, which means ?A book?.
So, ?AL? and ?THE? are interchangeable in comprehension of the meaning.
Peace,
KhalilPeace Khalil,
You have given an understanding of "AL" purely from so called Arabic grammar and unfortunately it has nothing to do with alQuraan. Please take a look at opening post.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
You have given an understanding of "AL" purely from so called Arabic grammar and unfortunately it has nothing to do with alQuraan. Please take a look at opening post...
The highlights above are from me.
The Qur?aan is in Arabic language; therefore it MUST follow all its grammatical rules. See 4612 below.
And before this, was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy And this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic language; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right.
Also see 122, 1337, 20113, 3928, 413, 427, and 433, confirming that Arabic is the language of The Qur?aan.
Peace,
Khalil