Why do you reject hadiths
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If you are referring to shahada plus "Muhammad is the messenger of God", I personally don't see anything wrong with that, since it is also part of the Qur'an.
If you are referring to Salawats (sp?), I also don't think it is wrong for us to pray to God to exalt the Prophet Muhammad and Abraham, though I also add "and other prophets too".
Other non-Qur'anic recitation is what I think falls under glorifying God.
Peace
Ok I don't agree with praising prophets during a prayer which was supposed to be to god only...mentioning muhammed with god doesn't make sense to me. But going by that logic, I don't understand why you would have a problem with reciting torah in prayers as well.
Peace
Ps what is the point in asking god to exalt Mohammed during a prayer ? Would god exalt him more if I asked him to, or is it because he isn't exalted enough ?
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I just find it disturbing, one would come here and feel offended because others do not believe in stories and fables, then get defensive and annoyed. Then still calling themselves a Muslim, goes and questions the Holy Quran, the words of God.Which he knows to be true. Are you not scared Allah will question you on this? & But you have no fear in following what those who are far less than Allah tell you.
How can you compare the Qu'ran (protected and persisting unaltered truth throughout time) with hadith (unprotected, man-made fabrications alluded to being the words, actions and sometimes appalling behavior of a man of God)?
Agree with you, sister. Why it is so hard for them to understand this hint.
The Qur'an and hadiths can not blend in harmony. We can not mix the truth with falsehood.
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salaam Shirin and maha
Hehe, good for you. You believe in your own interpretation of Qur'an, I have my own. Your interpretation allows you to play with people, mine doesn't.
I am not "making fun".
Rejecting books of hadiths is only a first step.
The second step is to reject hadiths hidden between the lines of the quran under the form of tafassirs.There is two quran. The first one is the one that believers read over the lines.
The second one is the one that idolaters reads betwwean the lines inpired by god, where there is tafassirs.The two qurans are differents, with differentt meanings and leads to two totally differents religions.
For many years, i had a veil on my eyes. I never thought that there were two qurans.
Wasting time in false rites let muslims away from the first quran
Please, tell me who gain from your prostrating and your bowing ? Don't you see that you are making the same rituals as salafist and wahabites and other islamic sects gone astray ?
Have I to demonstrate the gain you obtain from reading and studying words of your GOD three times a day ?God ask believers to read the first quran. It is the process of total mind purification from all the humans inventions.
It is the "zakat process" reserved to people coming humbly to GOD, putting their faith in him.
And GOD will then explain you Quran. I don't know how he does that but, for sure, he will do it if the reader is sincere (however i can't imagine how he can do such a thing for people not knowing arabic, since i was not in this difficult case)Notice that Many times, zakat is traduced by purification even by scholars because it was impossible to put "charity"
Zakat process by first quran is totally rejected by idolaters of Hadiths. They never do it and never do the salat asked by god.I don't ask you to believe me. I just ask you to connect to God with the first quran and ask him purification.
Do you see a trap ?i have to absent for some days.
However, i recommand you three articles in this site ordered in pedagogic orderhttp//free-minds.org/how-study-quran
http//free-minds.org/true-testimony
http//free-minds.org/whats-nameThey helped me in my second step of hadith rejection
Peace
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salaam Shirin and maha
I am not "making fun".
Rejecting books of hadiths is only a first step.
The second step is to reject hadiths hidden between the lines of the quran under the form of tafassirs.There is two quran. The first one is the one that believers read over the lines.
The second one is the one that idolaters reads betwwean the lines inpired by god, where there is tafassirs.The two qurans are differents, with differentt meanings and leads to two totally differents religions.
For many years, i had a veil on my eyes. I never thought that there were two qurans.
Wasting time in false rites let muslims away from the first quran
Please, tell me who gain from your prostrating and your bowing ? Don't you see that you are making the same rituals as salafist and wahabites and other islamic sects gone astray ?
Have I to demonstrate the gain you obtain from reading and studying words of your GOD three times a day ?God ask believers to read the first quran. It is the process of total mind purification from all the humans inventions.
It is the "zakat process" reserved to people coming humbly to GOD, putting their faith in him.
And GOD will then explain you Quran. I don't know how he does that but, for sure, he will do it if the reader is sincere (however i can't imagine how he can do such a thing for people not knowing arabic, since i was not in this difficult case)Notice that Many times, zakat is traduced by purification even by scholars because it was impossible to put "charity"
Zakat process by first quran is totally rejected by idolaters of Hadiths. They never do it and never do the salat asked by god.I don't ask you to believe me. I just ask you to connect to God with the first quran and ask him purification.
Do you see a trap ?i have to absent for some days.
However, i recommand you three articles in this site ordered in pedagogic orderhttp//free-minds.org/how-study-quran
http//free-minds.org/true-testimony
http//free-minds.org/whats-nameThey helped me in my second step of hadith rejection
Peace
Your previous post just sounded like you was making fun of them. But thank you for your explanation, I agree with you. God can guide and misguide through the Quran depending on if the reader is a since believer or not.
Peace
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If you are referring to shahada plus "Muhammad is the messenger of God", I personally don't see anything wrong with that, since it is also part of the Qur'an.
If you are referring to Salawats (sp?), I also don't think it is wrong for us to pray to God to exalt the Prophet Muhammad and Abraham, though I also add "and other prophets too".
Other non-Qur'anic recitation is what I think falls under glorifying God.
Peace
Good point. What people do not understand YET, is that there will be those who will only take from the Quran and they will be those who don't mind taking anything that doe snot necessarily contradict the Quran. There still seems to be the attitude that one is right and the other is wrong. In time people more people will enter the Quranic Islam and these differences will be seen as various schools among the Quranist path. A person of a christian background might find it more comfortrable to go to Church and praise Jesus since the Quran praises Jesus also. But he won't believe in Jesus's divinity or the trinity, at least not in the way many Christians understand it. A person can be going to haj and praying with Muslims but won't believe its binding on everyone but that is teh way he favors worshiping God. A person of a Jewish background might still perform the rituals of Judaism but like a Muslim with hadith, he won't believe all aspects of the Talmud, only the ones that do not contradict the Quran. This will be a truly universalist faith.
The problem now is that some are not able to understand this and try to convinvce others that they are right and others are wrong. Its not whether Mecca is what the Quran is talking about or not but whether its binding. Many prophets did not perform haj there and some may have done it there. Prophets had many pilgrimages and places of worship. Rituals are a means to an end and not an end by themselves. The Quran tells us that every nation have been given rites and rituals, the important thing is why you do it and to whom.
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Ok I don't agree with praising prophets during a prayer which was supposed to be to god only...mentioning muhammed with god doesn't make sense to me. But going by that logic, I don't understand why you would have a problem with reciting torah in prayers as well.
Peace
Ps what is the point in asking god to exalt Mohammed during a prayer ? Would god exalt him more if I asked him to, or is it because he isn't exalted enough ?
With praying God to exalt the prophets, I'm still praying to God, not to the prophets.
Of course, prophets are exalted already, but what I'm praying for is that God save their, let's say, reputation in people's eyes and hearts. For example, many hadtih followers believe Muhammad said pretty silly things such as "woman are deficient in intelligence" or they believe he married a nine year old girl when he was 50+ etc. On the other hand, in Qur'an, we have that The Almighty said that in Muhammad we have excellent pattern, and I don't see the hadith mentioned above give an excellent example. Now, I am praying to Allah swt to "take off" those inappropriate epithets from Muhammad, in the eyes of people who believe in God and his messengers. You can also apply this silliness attributed to any other prophet described in hadith, Bible, Torah...
Hope you understand what I'm saying.
Peace.
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salaam Shirin and maha
I am not "making fun".
Rejecting books of hadiths is only a first step.
The second step is to reject hadiths hidden between the lines of the quran under the form of tafassirs.There is two quran. The first one is the one that believers read over the lines.
The second one is the one that idolaters reads betwwean the lines inpired by god, where there is tafassirs.The two qurans are differents, with differentt meanings and leads to two totally differents religions.
For many years, i had a veil on my eyes. I never thought that there were two qurans.
Wasting time in false rites let muslims away from the first quran
Please, tell me who gain from your prostrating and your bowing ? Don't you see that you are making the same rituals as salafist and wahabites and other islamic sects gone astray ?
Have I to demonstrate the gain you obtain from reading and studying words of your GOD three times a day ?God ask believers to read the first quran. It is the process of total mind purification from all the humans inventions.
It is the "zakat process" reserved to people coming humbly to GOD, putting their faith in him.
And GOD will then explain you Quran. I don't know how he does that but, for sure, he will do it if the reader is sincere (however i can't imagine how he can do such a thing for people not knowing arabic, since i was not in this difficult case)Notice that Many times, zakat is traduced by purification even by scholars because it was impossible to put "charity"
Zakat process by first quran is totally rejected by idolaters of Hadiths. They never do it and never do the salat asked by god.I don't ask you to believe me. I just ask you to connect to God with the first quran and ask him purification.
Do you see a trap ?i have to absent for some days.
However, i recommand you three articles in this site ordered in pedagogic orderhttp//free-minds.org/how-study-quran
http//free-minds.org/true-testimony
http//free-minds.org/whats-nameThey helped me in my second step of hadith rejection
Peace
Can I ask why you call yourself noshirk?
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Good point. What people do not understand YET, is that there will be those who will only take from the Quran and they will be those who don't mind taking anything that doe snot necessarily contradict the Quran. There still seems to be the attitude that one is right and the other is wrong. In time people more people will enter the Quranic Islam and these differences will be seen as various schools among the Quranist path. A person of a christian background might find it more comfortrable to go to Church and praise Jesus since the Quran praises Jesus also. But he won't believe in Jesus's divinity or the trinity, at least not in the way many Christians understand it. A person can be going to haj and praying with Muslims but won't believe its binding on everyone but that is teh way he favors worshiping God. A person of a Jewish background might still perform the rituals of Judaism but like a Muslim with hadith, he won't believe all aspects of the Talmud, only the ones that do not contradict the Quran. This will be a truly universalist faith.
The problem now is that some are not able to understand this and try to convinvce others that they are right and others are wrong. Its not whether Mecca is what the Quran is talking about or not but whether its binding. Many prophets did not perform haj there and some may have done it there. Prophets had many pilgrimages and places of worship. Rituals are a means to an end and not an end by themselves. The Quran tells us that every nation have been given rites and rituals, the important thing is why you do it and to whom.
Salaams,
As I mentioned above, I got used to "holier than thou" attitude form people. I'm not angry because of it, it just makes me sad. People who claim to be submitters to God's will should know that God is the only Judge and it is He who give guidance and above all it is He who is The Most Merciful.
I once heard a wise man said "people act like Jannah is narrow and small". People don't seem to understand that God created us different. If He willed, He would make us all the same and if the form of the prayer is more important than praying to God, He would have explain in detail how to do it. After I rejected hadith, I wasn't sure how to pray, I even started the thread here asking people how they do it. I received different replies form different people, so they didn't answer my question as I wish, e.i. they weren't united in their answers even though they all were Qur'an aloners. I realised what you said above, that among the Qur'an followers were different groups of understanding It. Which is OK if you ask me, but God knows who is "the most right" in their interpretation.
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With praying God to exalt the prophets, I'm still praying to God, not to the prophets.
Of course, prophets are exalted already, but what I'm praying for is that God save their, let's say, reputation in people's eyes and hearts. For example, many hadtih followers believe Muhammad said pretty silly things such as "woman are deficient in intelligence" or they believe he married a nine year old girl when he was 50+ etc. On the other hand, in Qur'an, we have that The Almighty said that in Muhammad we have excellent pattern, and I don't see the hadith mentioned above give an excellent example. Now, I am praying to Allah swt to "take off" those inappropriate epithets from Muhammad, in the eyes of people who believe in God and his messengers. You can also apply this silliness attributed to any other prophet described in hadith, Bible, Torah...
Hope you understand what I'm saying.
Peace.
Peace sister.
you have a point, but prayer is ment to glorify God, not to praise prophets you never met IMO.
You still didnt replied to why you, going by that logic, cannot pray the jewish way if you just include quranic verses as well.
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Peace sister.
you have a point, but prayer is ment to glorify God, not to praise prophets you never met IMO.
You still didnt replied to why you, going by that logic, cannot pray the jewish way if you just include quranic verses as well.
Peace
I am prying for all the believers as well.
Sorry about that, I had that answer in my mind, but I forgot to write it in my reply.
When I pray, I pray in Arabic, because it is the language of Qur'an. I don't know many Torah passages, but even if I did, I would look for Qur'anic equivalent and pray with it. I do like hearing Christians saying Halleluyah, but I'd go with Alhamdulillah since the both have the same/similar meaning, it's only I prefer Arabic.
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Peace
I am prying for all the believers as well.
Sorry about that, I had that answer in my mind, but I forgot to write it in my reply.
When I pray, I pray in Arabic, because it is the language of Qur'an. I don't know many Torah passages, but even if I did, I would look for Qur'anic equivalent and pray with it. I do like hearing Christians saying Halleluyah, but I'd go with Alhamdulillah since the both have the same/similar meaning, it's only I prefer Arabic.
I pray in Arabic also since this is what I am used to.
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Peace
I am prying for all the believers as well.
Sorry about that, I had that answer in my mind, but I forgot to write it in my reply. )
When I pray, I pray in Arabic, because it is the language of Qur'an. I don't know many Torah passages, but even if I did, I would look for Qur'anic equivalent and pray with it. I do like hearing Christians saying Halleluyah, but I'd go with Alhamdulillah since the both have the same/similar meaning, it's only I prefer Arabic.
One thing is to prefer arabic like you, which is a personal choice and perfectly fine, another thing is that God understands all languages and arabic isnt necessary in order to pray. One can pray in any language he wants.
i dont see any requirement or necessity of praying in arabic. You are reciting non-quranic passages as well, so why would it be a problem to recite non-arabic passages as the torah? If one wants to include torah in his prayer I dont see any problem in it as well
Peace
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Why do you guys reject hadiths and why do you think that Hadiths are false and fabrications but still followed by more than 90% of muslims for more than 1000 years ?
Why Allah allowed such a massive corruption in his last and final religion ?
Salaam,
This is because http//www.islamrevolution.org/hadithstheshameofislam.htm -
One thing is to prefer arabic like you, which is a personal choice and perfectly fine, another thing is that God understands all languages and arabic isnt necessary in order to pray. One can pray in any language he wants.
i dont see any requirement or necessity of praying in arabic. You are reciting non-quranic passages as well, so why would it be a problem to recite non-arabic passages as the torah? If one wants to include torah in his prayer I dont see any problem in it as well
Peace
Do what you think it's right, I already stated my opinion.
Salaams.
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And GOD will then explain you Quran. I don't know how he does that but, for sure, he will do it if the reader is sincere (however i can't imagine how he can do such a thing for people not knowing arabic, since i was not in this difficult case)
Well praise to God that he can do ALL things, because I have no understanding of Arabic. Just the 3 surah's I have taught myself. I do everything else in english. At the rate of my ability to learn Arabic I should be about 100 yrs old before I can read Quran. Spent 2 years on the Alphabet and still have issues recognizing letters.
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Why do you guys reject hadiths and why do you think that Hadiths are false and fabrications but still followed by more than 90% of muslims for more than 1000 years ?
Salaam, brother rameez.
Do you believe that most people who claim to be Muslims are really Muslims?
Everyone can say that "I am a Muslim".
I personally think that definitive answer to find out whether we are Muslims (who submit to Allah), or whether we are the believers, the right answer for it will only known for sure when we receive it from God (on the Day of Judgment).
Are you willing to really listen to the Qur'an carefully?
If you believe it is from God, then listen to its messages in earnest.
The more you compare Qur'an with hadith, I hope you will be able to feel that there are so many conflicting messages between them.
The hadiths mix between the looking good messages and the bad messages. And sometimes, the bad messages also hidden/cryptic. Saying that the words of hadith are Muhammad's words => seems to be a powerful weapon to invite other people easily believe it.
Have you ever read hadiths Qudsi? The hadith in the name of God, one type of hadith in which the prophet Muhammad's sayings leaning to God, or in other words, the prophet narrated the words of God.
But they are still said to be hadiths, and they are not part of the Qur'an. Isn't that very suspicious?
Indirectly, it is such a claim that there are still another words of God scattered outside the Qur'an.
Hadith Qudsi is the blasphemy against the Qur'an. Only evil people can made such a fraud using the prophet's name to write the 'words of God' created by their own.
In my opinion, to be safe from this kind of crime, Muslims have to start their own effort to get to know their own holy book (the Qur'an).
Do you believe the Qur'an because the scholars say that it is genuine, or do you believe the Qur'an because you are told that it was brought by Muhammad and collected by his companions?
It's a belief that could be going unsteady.
I strongly suggest that you believe in the Qur'an because you study/analyze the Qur'an itself. Study the Quran, and then decide by yourself whether you will believe in it or not. Your trust in the Qur'an should be something you decide for yourself and not because of the scholars say it came from Muhammad.
The scholars and preachers say this and that about Muhammad (the information they get from the hadiths).
But I feel the character of the last prophet mentioned in the Qur'an is very different from the character of the prophet that I read from the hadith.
Why Allah allowed such a massive corruption in his last and final religion ?
Doomsday has not arrived. The devil and his followers still have time.
God is testing us. God allowed satan to disrupt human until doomsday arrives. They will perform variety of ways to deceive us.
Be careful. I trust only God to lead and put me in a straight path.
May God help us to find the best way of life.
Peace.
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I just wanted to add this The more I think about hadith, the more I feel as if they limit God. Seriously. To say that one can only recite the Qu'ran in Arabic, and that if they don't have the Arabic Qu'ran then they don't have the real one. To say that womens prayers will not be accepted while they are menstruating, to say that if a person does not pray a certain way or if they leave out a certain area of a prayer their prayer is not accepted. All of these things are in hadith, not the Qu'ran, and they limit God.
God is the Creator, the Judge, the All-Knowing...is He not limited by our shortcomings.
This is another reason I began to reject hadiths. The thought that God was keeping tabs on whether I said "Bismillah" as I walked into my home with my right foot first...didn't make sense.
Peace,
Amina
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I just wanted to add this The more I think about hadith, the more I feel as if they limit God. Seriously. To say that one can only recite the Qu'ran in Arabic, and that if they don't have the Arabic Qu'ran then they don't have the real one. To say that womens prayers will not be accepted while they are menstruating, to say that if a person does not pray a certain way or if they leave out a certain area of a prayer their prayer is not accepted. All of these things are in hadith, not the Qu'ran, and they limit God.
God is the Creator, the Judge, the All-Knowing...is He not limited by our shortcomings.
This is another reason I began to reject hadiths. The thought that God was keeping tabs on whether I said "Bismillah" as I walked into my home with my right foot first...didn't make sense.
Peace,
Amina
and they also say that non-muslims (which includes quranists and other muslims they disagree with) prayers would not be accepted as well. Only their particular prayer according to their particular sectarian rules will be accepted. When I was sunni, the local mullah told me to cover my head carefully since if even one hair was visible my prayer wont be accepted.. that i have to make proper wudu otherwise my prayer wont be accepted... and so on.. so all my energy was exhausted on focusing on whether my whole head was covered or not, i repeated wudu several times in order to ensure that i had made the wudu proper and so on.. so the focus was more on the ritual then on the spiritual aspect of prayer...
the problems with sectarians are that rituals are seen as a goal in itself.
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the problems with sectarians are that rituals are seen as a goal in itself.
best statement that sums up pretty much everything about sectarians bravo
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Peace Maha and scaredmuslimah,
Your experiences cause me to think back to my sunni days.
The comraderie was good, but the craziness.........One time I missed dhuhr and asr prayer because of an appointment.
I was informed by a knowledgable brother that I had to make up the prayers.
4 sunnas before and 4 after the obligatory 4 ra'kats for aduhr and 4
before asr prayer for a total of 20 ra'kats. After about eight ra'kats I was getting tired.
After about 15 I wondered if I was gonna make it. I completed the twenty!
I remember laying on the floor afterwards thinking "this is crazy"
I better not ever miss three in a row.Peace O0