Why do you reject hadiths
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the problems with sectarians are that rituals are seen as a goal in itself.
best statement that sums up pretty much everything about sectarians bravo
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Peace Maha and scaredmuslimah,
Your experiences cause me to think back to my sunni days.
The comraderie was good, but the craziness.........One time I missed dhuhr and asr prayer because of an appointment.
I was informed by a knowledgable brother that I had to make up the prayers.
4 sunnas before and 4 after the obligatory 4 ra'kats for aduhr and 4
before asr prayer for a total of 20 ra'kats. After about eight ra'kats I was getting tired.
After about 15 I wondered if I was gonna make it. I completed the twenty!
I remember laying on the floor afterwards thinking "this is crazy"
I better not ever miss three in a row.Peace O0
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Peace hawkninetynine, all.
I have missed 30 years of prayers in my life.I got to know and be drawn to my creator later on in my life.
So according to your sunni friends , I have missed 365 x 5 x 30 prayers, which is 54750 prayers.
Now if every two prayers missed, I will have to make up 20 rakkats. I am 27375 x 20 rakkats behind.
That makes 547500 rakkats! I wonder how many credits missed?
Well if you do not hear from me, I will be very busy?
Peace.
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Maha, Hawketynine, and good logic
I thank God that we were brought out of that mess. It is so freeing to let go of all of the technicalities. yay
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Salam RameezYou are not my first Hadeether. You will not do that
There is no such verse. What is the problem ?
I had never seen or met God. I believe he exists. I can't witness of that. I can't even witness that there is only one GOD.
I find a book called Quran. I have read it. I recognized words of my God. I believe in it all. I can't witness that it is book of GOD
I Had never seen Muhammad. I can't witness he even existed. In the book i believed was from my GOD, it is told to me that he is the rassool to whom was given the book. So i blieved in That.You can consider All Quran as a Gossip. But it is only one Gossip of 600 pages and i believed in it. Show me one human able to produce a Gossip like that. I put my faith in only one source. Whats the problem ?
Your books of Hadiths are compilation of millions of gossips. Bukhari's book alone came from 600 000 gossips (as he said). You and your scholars admitted that that gossips can be lies produced by humans. You are spending time in a huge garbage of lies hoping to find another Quran there. Books of yours gossips can't even agree for what gossips are true gossips.Now that i explained what believer mean, i hope that you can also recognize words of your God without "certification" of people of "knowledge and authority".
If you can't do so, then you believe in GOD through other divinities. You would not be a believer of GOD but a believer in "people of knowledge and authority" you have choosen.I will count now lies in the sentence below
Lie 1 Hadiths are not Gossips and conjecture. What are they then ? How you get them if not by a gossip process of "authentification of Gossips" by people you heard "by Gossip" that they were truthfull .
Lie 2 People of knowledge. What is their knowledge ?. What did they discovered other than doctrines for dividing muslims? How do you measure their knowledge ?
Lie 3 and authority. Who gave them authority ?. They are not even agree between them. Please give us the names of the people you think are of authority end tell us why you think that they have more authority than the others. How can you choose the good ones if you admit that they have more authority than yourself and have spent more time than you in studying?
Lie 4have studied them extensively and have separated/pointed out fabrications. Well, i can deduce from that that we can find now an update for books of Bukhari and other Hadiths compilors where fabrications have been separated. Where can i find these authentificated books and who are the authentificators ?. You know than such books don't exists but you are believing that the work has been done.
Lie 5People have spent their lives in studying this thing. Please give me names. How can you know that they spent their live in such a study ? Please, give me one Hadith and one example of "scientist" who managed to proove that that a hadith was not fabrication. Show me one demonstration. Only one. The best one.
I sincerely hope that you will discover one day that you were lying to yourself and that yours partners will not be with you in the day of judgment.
I sincerely hope that one day, you will read words of God through words of God and not throught tafassirs and hearsays.
I sincerely hope that one day, you will discover that science and Hikma of your GOD is in his words and in his universe and not in other books.
I sincerely hope that you will not return on your heels after you have met, in this forum, believers in GOD and words of GOD who are humbly triyng to understand what GOD said and asking GOD for his purification. Hope you will not return on your heels as you came, with false books of God between your hands.Peace
I am still waiting for a proof that Quran was revealed to Messenger by Jibrael and it was given to Jibrael by Allah.
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Salaams,
I consider myself Qur'an-aloner, but I still pray the "oldfashion" way. While I don't consider hadith as a religious authority, I think salat is something that we didn't learn from hadith it's rather tradition which is passed down on us from Muhammad and the Muslims around him. If Bukhari collected hadith two centuries after death of the Prophet, does that mean that Muslims didn't know how to pray in that period?
I learned salat from my mom, my mom learned it form her mom, my grandma learned it from her mom and I'm sure that mother of my grandmother didn't have Sahih Bukhari collection available but still she managed to pray five times a day.
Of course, Qur'an tells us we should stand in prayer, bow and fall prostrate and recite Qur'an and glorify Allah s.w.t., that's exactly what I do praying the "oldfashion" way.Really, do you even know what hadiths are ? they are the same traditions that you are claiming to be passed down on us from Muhammad and Muslims around Him . First learn what hadiths are. Bukhari and others simply collected the same narrations or passed down chains that you are talking about.
Lol. First you said that Hadiths are conjecture and Satan has misguided more than 90% Muslims, but now you are following same Muslims , how you are sure that Satan has not poisoned the way of Salat ?
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For those who say "Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger" means to Follow the message so you are obeying Messenger and in turn Obeying Allah
461 And when it is said to them, "Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turning away from you in aversion.
Now explain why "Messenger" is separated from "what Allah has revealed".
All those who say that Satan has misguided more than 90% of Muslims and they are following conjecture, please prove that Satan HAS NOT distorted the original Quran and you are following the same verses that were revealed to the Messenger in its correct form.
And I can see how all the questions I asked with the Quranic verse are still unanswered ).
Someone said that they got "I am holiest than thou attitude" . I am not at all trying to give this attitude if someone gets this impression that I am implying that I AM more holy than you guys, its wrong , I am here just to learn and to understand your arguments and arguments can only be understood if we keep "arguing". After few days I will give you guys a surprise )
I have some more food of thought for you.
It says in the Quran to shorten the prayer when you travel. How long do you have to travel in order to be eligible to have this privilege? How short do you have to cut the prayer?
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Really, do you even know what hadiths are ? they are the same traditions that you are claiming to be passed down on us from Muhammad and Muslims around Him . First learn what hadiths are. Bukhari and others simply collected the same narrations or passed down chains that you are talking about.
Lol. First you said that Hadiths are conjecture and Satan has misguided more than 90% Muslims, but now you are following same Muslims , how you are sure that Satan has not poisoned the way of Salat ?
That might be correct in some part of the universe, but I will never, ever, ver, er, rrrr accept that the Prophet, mercy to mankind, the excellent pattern said that woman who wears perfume equals adulteress and many other nonsense. It just doesn't look like an excellent pattern. So, I dismiss it.
As for salat, well I thought about that too, but I realised that it couldn't be since all I do while praying, call it "sunni way", is glorifying God, which is exactly what God wants me to do.
See, your problem and problem of many other people here is arrogance, which leads all of you to conclusion "My way is the right way" and makes you blinded by your own faith. I don't really care if you're a hadith lover, as long as you believe that there is ONLY ONE GOD, and accept His messengers as a group of people with the same, universal message I will respect you. And I wish God would guide us all.
Salaams.
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That might be correct in some part of the universe, but I will never, ever, ver, er, rrrr accept that the Prophet, mercy to mankind, the excellent pattern said that woman who wears perfume equals adulteress and many other nonsense. It just doesn't look like an excellent pattern. So, I dismiss it.
As for salat, well I thought about that too, but I realised that it couldn't be since all I do while praying, call it "sunni way", is glorifying God, which is exactly what God wants me to do.
See, your problem and problem of many other people here is arrogance, which leads all of you to conclusion "My way is the right way" and makes you blinded by your own faith. I don't really care if you're a hadith lover, as long as you believe that there is ONLY ONE GOD, and accept His messengers as a group of people with the same, universal message I will respect you. And I wish God would guide us all.
Salaams.
Arrogance ?? can you please point out where i was arrogant ? I am just posting questions and seeking answers . Most of the time I get "arrogant" replies from you guys as "Hadithers are insance", "They are mindless", "Hadithers are satans"," they are satan followers".
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Peace rameez.
Why are you quoting verses from Qoran?
You do not believe it is from GOD, since you are asking for proof. This is hypocrisy?
Your have double standards. You do not accept the authority of GOD , you believe there is a bigger authority that "abrogates" some verses. Even though GOD clearly says there is no contradiction in Qoran.
Yet you are asking us to explain verses out of context. Verses that you do not understand and you are mistranslating.
You say you want to learn? So far you seem to be of the following1746] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Quran alone, they run away in aversion]
You have your beliefs and we have ours.
Peace.
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Arrogance ?? can you please point out where i was arrogant ? I am just posting questions and seeking answers . Most of the time I get "arrogant" replies from you guys as "Hadithers are insance", "They are mindless", "Hadithers are satans"," they are satan followers".
It's your "tone" I think and a manner in which you debate. Yes, you are posting questions, but you don't seem to read answers, or at least you are not thinking about them.
I don't recall calling you any such names, nor do I wish to call you like that. If I did, I apologise.
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Salaam ramirez sory for entering debate with few questions
Why would Allah(CReator) need books of hadiths from persian colectors hundreds years after Ra?ulLALah to explain Quran Wich is completed detailed and a Guide and An-Nur to Mankind?
WHY milions still pray SALAT if the Ulemma already get in mutual concensus that Salawat is divine LAWS?.... check journal Ahl-Hadith 1997 about this issue
Before I proceed further, I deem it of utmost importance to
refer to an article that was published in the Journal of Ahl-e-
Hadith, the issue of 19-25 November, 1997, under the title
?Aqamat-e-Salaat?. Please have a look.
?As-Salaat is a fundamental aspect of Islamic discipline and
the kind of social order the Quran is desirous of establishing,
it wishes to define that by the comprehensive term of
Aqamat as-Salaat.
The meanings of Salaat, according to its Root ( ) , are
to follow someone?s
Footsteps and move on. Therefore, in the light of authentic
Arabic lexicons, the interpreters have determined the
meaning of Quranic term ?Aqamat as-Salaat? as ?following
the divine laws steadfastly?. In other words, to abide by the
commands and laws revealed through divine guidance
(Wahi) and to continue acting upon the program prescribed
by Him, is called ?Aqamat as-Salaat?. According to Quran,
its enforcement or promulgation can only take effect under a
social system ? a system where individuals continue rising
up to the determined goals and ideals through honest pursuit
of Quran?s guidelines, without regard to their personal gains
or interests. Thus, Aqamat as-Salaat has been declared a
common goal and obligation and it is made clear that the
establishment of Salaat would not be possible without
Believers? acquisition of ?Tamakkan fil Ardh?, meaning,
without their coming into power as a free state, as
elaborated in the Chapter ?Al-Hajj?....Check www.aastana.com.
OK lets imagine that books of hadith are Correct, now wich Sunnah shouuld i follow? wich narrators are truth?have you met Muhamed, the big problem in Sunnism is that they pick first 10 surahs and make a semi religion of rituals and not a divine code of conduct..
The big diference between Quran and hadith, is that if i Read Quran i get strenght in faith day by day, if i read hadith i will feell a sense of fear and madness.and a lot of MAgic and harry potter hollywood effects...
SALAAM TO ALL peace
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OK lets imagine that books of hadith are Correct, now wich Sunnah shouuld i follow? wich narrators are truth?have you met Muhamed, the big problem in Sunnism is that they pick first 10 surahs and make a semi religion of rituals and not a divine code of conduct..
Salaam NoMad,
You remind me of an incident took place few years back. I went with my friend to a veeeerrryyy BIG scholar living about a kilometer from my house. When I saw his name on his flat entrance door, it took me so long to read his name and his degrees. It was covering from one end of the door to the other end of door. Like XYZ, mufti, a'lim, faazil, kamil, mukammal, a to z.
I was not knowing him, my friend took me to him asking lets talk to him about AlQuraan alone. We went to him, he took us downstairs, there was a room in parking area, full of books up to the ceiling covering all walls. In middle of all book shelves there was a table and three chairs, we sat and started to talk.
Scholar yes tell me what do you want.
mmKhan This is the first time I came to know about you so I decided to meet you and asking some questions.
Scholar Yes, yes, feel free to ask anything, all ahl-e-hadith ulema, sunni ulema, mehdavi ulema and shia ulema use to come to me to clear their doubts, so you can ask anything that you would like, you will get a satisfying answer.
mmKhan I am really confuse which hadith to follow, Mehdavi's got their own, Sunni's got their own, Shia's got their own and Ahl-e-hadith got their own hadith and all are different than each other, so what should I do?
Scholar Ha ha ha ... nice question. Hadith is for increasing your marks, you will get passing marks on the Day of Judgement if you study AlQuraan, but if you study hadith also along with it, your marks may increase and you can get up to 100/100 marks.
mmKhan Well, if so, then is it not enough to study AlQuraan and get passing marks, instead of getting into confusions more and more.
Scholar Yes, you can do that, but remember you will just get passing marks.
mmKhan I was thinking why don't we try study AlQuraan and try to find out all answers for our questions and how to perform rituals as Allah said AlKitaab is tibya-nalli-kulli-shai-in . What do you say, shall we try it together?
Scholar Ohhh! So, you came here to teach me, not to ask me anything. I understood you now.
mmKhan But at least we can take a try, isn't it?
Scholar Com'on get up and get out of my room, out! .
mmKhan We should not close doors of Hidayat on us. We should be always open for corrections.
Scholar I said, get lost .
This story may help people in some ways. That scholar was so proud of himself and of his knowledge that he don't even like to listen to others. nope
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Rameez is in a way TRUE
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Say, "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away - then indeed, Allah does not like the disbelievers.616
And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah"4363
And when Jesus brought clear proofs, he said, "I have come to you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that over which you differ, so fear Allah and obey me.2285
The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, , "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the destination."JESUS BRINGS WISDOM/ HADITH , OBEY HIM!!!
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Salaam
I am still waiting for a proof that Quran was revealed to Messenger by Jibrael and it was given to Jibrael by Allah.
i could respond see quran and if you believe in it you believe in that.
I told you that there is no proof and the question is question of belief.You are believeing in words that don't come from allah.
You are whorshipping Bukhari and Muslim and believing in their books and putting your faith in their beards.However, no matter. I knew since the beginning that you will not respond.
Peace