Right hand possesses in Quran
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Sectarian? I don't know, he is a scratched vinyl record. You point things out and he says "diictionaries...", no matter what argument you put forward, the invariable answer is "dictionnaries..." I doubt that he even follows any dictionnary, because he restrict automatically the meaning of malaka however many aceptions the dictionnaries may give. No, he is playign us dumb thinking that he is winning some contest or something. Obviously he is not winning anything, but he is wasting his time. He doesn't want to know, too bad for him. His ignorance and bigotry is his business, and "dictionnaries..." the key to success. Oh yes, hayyalalfalah! hayyalalfalah! come to the dictionnaries...! come to the dictionnaries...!
Ya salaam!
Salaam
Yes and you want me to discard all dictionaries and accept random bunch of idiots on some internet forum who are still not clear that how to interpret "right hand possess".
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I think you detect that MMA is a complicated subject where Quranist can differ and you want to use that issue as a way to show that the Quranist persuasion is wrong. If I can prove they are wrong about this issue or they have no answer than that means they are not right about their Islam. I think this is the way you think. There are many issues you can discuss but you seem to like this issue now that you found that MMA is complicated and the verses in the Quran are not explicit. You stopped defending Sunni Islam and started attacking the Quranist way which tells me that you are not able to defend Sunni Islam. I noticed you are dwelling on linguism rather than explaining to us why slavery should be made permissible and why should prisoners be enslaved and be forced to have sex?
I think its going to be hard to defend this. Even the Sunni clerics avoid this. You probably find it convenient to try to find fault in the MMA translation of some Quranist detecting that the Quran is not explicit about it.
I am not at all saying that IF YOU DONT HAVE EXPLANATION THAN YOU MUST ACCEPT MINE. But at least when you say "rameez you are wrong" then please say this with some evidence, instead of IMOs
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Listen buddy, I am an Arabic speaker. You knows next to nothing about Arabic. So I don't need your dictionaries but i have given references from free mind dictionary. Dude, learn some Arabic then we can talk .. Otherwise Good luck with raping sex slaves in the name of Allah and Mohammed
The dictionary authors are too and they learn grammars etc. Just speaking is not sufficient, I am speaking urdu for more than 23 years of my life but it doesn't mean I understand all its grammatical and lexical stuff .
Learning arabic is not a point here, point is to prove that "ma malakat aymanuhum"="what maintained by oaths"
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2 and 3 are certainly beyond the scope of the sentence. Similarly the sentence has nothing to do with possess since possess is for inanimate objects not humans in the sense of property. In relation to men and women it only denoties authority, administrative power to direct their affair and be responsible since authority and responsible are inseperable.
See an example
they are asking for appointing a commandar----ruler who has the authority to dicatate and receive obedience.
One of the par excellence characterstics of Qur'aan is its succintness, that is to express with brevity and clarity, with no wasted words. For slaves, what was the need to use a complete verbal sentence when there is a single word slaves ?
Can you quote me your translation of the verse 2433 ?
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Can you quote me your translation of the verse 2433 ?
What about the point clarified in the quote?
Take note that those people should retain their selves continent and virtuous, who find not wedding opportunity, till such time that Allah the Exalted might make them Self-Sufficient out of His Bounty.
And abide by the following instruction regards those-Men and Women, being in circumstance that right hand of you have the authority for ordering and managing their affair-your House-Servants, who seek the proclamation of independence-freedom-self governance.
Thereby on their desiring, you the Guardians-House Masters, subject to having found in them sustainable ability-betterment, are hereby commanded to afford them the Written Proclamation of freedom-self governance.
And give them out of that wealth which Allah the Exalted has granted to you people.
Further, you people should not compel the House-Maids in submission to you people towards debauchery; since they had willingly decided-opted subjugation-became servant for security of chastity, with the diligent intention that you people might seek the apparent gains of worldly life.
Mind it, should someone forcefully compels them, thereby, it is a fact that for all that forcefully done in the state of their abhorrence, Allah the Exalted is the Forgiving, the Merciful*.
*Right hand
( ة
. .
He described that the basic perception infolded therein is of right hand which signifies power, force, authority. That the right hand connotes prosperity and blessedness. Further, that right hand connotes "oath". An obligation, a responsibility, an oath is normally and reflexively pledged by raising right hand, or striking right hand on the palm of another person. It is customary in many societies*. Interestingly power-authority and responsibility/obligation are inseparably associated, and an equal accountability of subject is attached. In English also, the word "hand" connotes "guardianship", "authority", "the power, responsibility, or care of somebody (usually used in the plural)"
Notwithstanding that same word refers to "the right hand" and connotes "the oaths", it will cause no ambiguity in the text since both are different in essence. "Oath" is abstract noun while "right hand" is a concrete noun. The abstract is that which exists only in our minds, that which we cannot know through our senses. It includes qualities, relationships, conditions, ideas, theories, and states of being, fields of inquiry and the like. Concrete words refer to things we can touch, see, hear, smell, and taste. "Oath" is either a statement of fact or a promise. A promise is a commitment by someone to do or not do something. Therefore, when is used as the Subject of a transitive Verb like , there is absolutely no reason that someone be confused to take it as "oaths" instead of "authority and responsibility to administer the affair of the object person".
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/4.%20Articles%20Ontology/3.%20Ma%20Malakat%20Aimanukum/3.%20Ma%20Malakat%20Aimanukum.htm
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What about the point clarified in the quote?
Take note that those people should retain their selves continent and virtuous, who find not wedding opportunity, till such time that Allah the Exalted might make them Self-Sufficient out of His Bounty.
And abide by the following instruction regards those-Men and Women, being in circumstance that right hand of you have the authority for ordering and managing their affair-your House-Servants, who seek the proclamation of independence-freedom-self governance.
Thereby on their desiring, you the Guardians-House Masters, subject to having found in them sustainable ability-betterment, are hereby commanded to afford them the Written Proclamation of freedom-self governance.
And give them out of that wealth which Allah the Exalted has granted to you people.
Further, you people should not compel the House-Maids in submission to you people towards debauchery; since they had willingly decided-opted subjugation-became servant for security of chastity, with the diligent intention that you people might seek the apparent gains of worldly life.
Mind it, should someone forcefully compels them, thereby, it is a fact that for all that forcefully done in the state of their abhorrence, Allah the Exalted is the Forgiving, the Merciful*.
*Right hand
( ة
. .
He described that the basic perception infolded therein is of right hand which signifies power, force, authority. That the right hand connotes prosperity and blessedness. Further, that right hand connotes "oath". An obligation, a responsibility, an oath is normally and reflexively pledged by raising right hand, or striking right hand on the palm of another person. It is customary in many societies*. Interestingly power-authority and responsibility/obligation are inseparably associated, and an equal accountability of subject is attached. In English also, the word "hand" connotes "guardianship", "authority", "the power, responsibility, or care of somebody (usually used in the plural)"
Notwithstanding that same word refers to "the right hand" and connotes "the oaths", it will cause no ambiguity in the text since both are different in essence. "Oath" is abstract noun while "right hand" is a concrete noun. The abstract is that which exists only in our minds, that which we cannot know through our senses. It includes qualities, relationships, conditions, ideas, theories, and states of being, fields of inquiry and the like. Concrete words refer to things we can touch, see, hear, smell, and taste. "Oath" is either a statement of fact or a promise. A promise is a commitment by someone to do or not do something. Therefore, when is used as the Subject of a transitive Verb like , there is absolutely no reason that someone be confused to take it as "oaths" instead of "authority and responsibility to administer the affair of the object person".
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/4.%20Articles%20Ontology/3.%20Ma%20Malakat%20Aimanukum/3.%20Ma%20Malakat%20Aimanukum.htm
isnt it possible to get straight and simple answer from quranists here ? I am simply asking for YOUR translation of 2433 .
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Further, you people should not compel the House-Maids in submission to you people towards debauchery; since they had willingly decided-opted subjugation-became servant for security of chastity, with the diligent intention that you people might seek the apparent gains of worldly life.
Where the verse says "house-maids" ?
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Yes and you want me to discard all dictionaries and accept random bunch of idiots on some internet forum who are still not clear that how to interpret "right hand possess".
Oh no, dear, you are wrong. I don't want you to do anything at all. The things you write are just funny enough like that, no need for improvement. Just carry on like that.
Salaam
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Oh no, dear, you are wrong. I don't want you to do anything at all. The things you write are just funny enough like that, no need for improvement. Just carry on like that.
Salaam
Lol. Its common on internet discussions when people run out of arguments they start saying stuff like you are saying.
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And you people arrange marriage of those amongst you who are in the state of Singles-unmarried.
And you people arrange marriage of the Righteous who are in the capacity of your Male-Servants-Serfs and Female house-servants/Bond Women-Serfs.
Notwithstanding, they are presently in state of dependency-poverty, should Allah the Exalted so desire, He the Exalted will make them self-sufficient by grants from His Bounty.
Remain aware that Allah the Exalted is beyond bounds-eternally above limits, eternally all-Knowing. -
379 not is to a human that gives him The God the book and the wisdom and the prophet-hood then he says to the mankind be (a person who is the legal property of another, unsubmissive, and forced to obey them against their will!!!) to me from besides The God
appropriate better translation...
379 not is to a human that gives him The God the book and the wisdom and the prophet-hood then he says to the mankind be devotees/servants to me from besides The God----NOON
better translation is also needed for this
If you can have , what is then so negative in it that he could not have it?
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The dictionary authors are too and they learn grammars etc. Just speaking is not sufficient, I am speaking urdu for more than 23 years of my life but it doesn't mean I understand all its grammatical and lexical stuff .
Learning arabic is not a point here, point is to prove that "ma malakat aymanuhum"="what maintained by oaths"
I already gave you references to free minds dictionary who prove that ma malakat aymanahum means what maintained by oaths.
I also speak urdu. And I dont need to study urdu or understand every grammatical and lexical stuff in order to know when a sentence is in past tense and present tense in urdu. I know already because I simply speak the language.
You are nothing more then a stubborn hadither, people here have given you tons of references but all you do is to stick to dictionaries which fit your rapists personality while you reject other evidences and other dictionaries which doesnt support your rapist ideas.
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This rameez is nuts. He argues that he can have sex with married women. And earlier he argued sex with kuffar. God has made something called AIDS for these people. Hopefully he isn
t married to an actual muslimah, but a repulsive hadither like himself, because shed likely contract it from him.It`s a good thing he comes in here and demonstrates how mindless the hadithers are.
We just had another one in here earlier, who deemed it "islam" and defended hadithism, deemed us to believe wrong, and be disbelievers, yet not soon after he entered, he started flirting and talking about marriage!
This guy too, just as soon as he gets into forum, the talk is reduced to revolving about the simplest desires."Satan follows his desire".
Peace
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better translation is also needed for this
If you can have , what is then so negative in it that he could not have it?
What you talking about you/he can have one, trying to legalize what?
Who is being addressed in context; the individual or all the believers?2431-32 and say to the believing (feminine) they should lower from their gaze and they should guard their chastity and not display their adornment only what apparent from it and let them draw their covering over their bosoms and not display their adornment only to their husbands or their fathers or fathers their husbands or their sons or their sons their husbands or their brothers or children their brothers or children their sisters or their women or what possess their right hands or the followers /walkers behind not those the desire from al-rijal/the men or the children the ones who not aware over private al-nisa/the women and not beat with their feet to know what they conceal from their adornment and turn to The God all O you the believers that you may prosper and marry ...?
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Like the better translation given by you against "supid translators" a translation was sought about the quoted part of the Ayah.
Why then are you so afraid to post your translation?
The word used in Qur?an for slave is clearly written ?
589 not will call you The God in the idle talk in your right hands and nonetheless will call you in what you contract the oath so its reparation feeding ten poor from average what you feed your family or clothing them or freeing a neck (i.e. slave) so from not find so a fast three days that reparation your right hands when you have sworn and guard your right hands like that clarifies The God to you His verses/signs that you may give thanks
Likewise the verses are clearly addressed to believers not slave owners ?
2430-33 say to the believers (masculine) lower from their vision and protect their private parts that purer for them indeed The God Aware in what they do and say to the believers (feminine) they should lower from their gaze and they should guard their chastity and not display their adornment only what apparent from it and let them draw their covering over their bosoms and not display their adornment only to their husbands or their fathers or fathers their husbands or their sons or their sons their husbands or their brothers or children their brothers or children their sisters or women theirs or what possess their right hands or the followers/walkers behind not those the desire from the men or the children the ones who not aware over private the women and not beat with their feet to know what they conceal from their adornment and turn to The God all O you the believers that you may prosper and marry the single/divorced/widowed from you and the righteous from devotees (masculine) yours and devotees (feminine) yours if they are poor enriches them The God from His bounty and The God Encompassing Knowing and let refrain the ones who not will they find marriage until enriches them The God from His bounty ?
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Reply 108 Noon
stupid inappropriate translation...
379 not is to a human that gives him The God the book and the wisdom and the prophet-hood then he says to the mankind be (a person who is the legal property of another, unsubmissive, and forced to obey them against their will!!!) to me from besides The God
appropriate better translation...
379 not is to a human that gives him The God the book and the wisdom and the prophet-hood then he says to the mankind be devotees/servants to me from besides The God
Quote of learned Noon
and marry the single/divorced/widowed from you and the righteous from devotees (masculine) yours and devotees (feminine) yours
At both places you are translating it "devotees".
- First you are saying that the Messenger of Allah cannot ask people to be his devotees.
- Then you say "your devotees" saying people have devotees.
Do you find some contradiction in your "appropriate" translations?
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Quote of learned Noon
At both places you are translating it "devotees".
- First you are saying that the Messenger of Allah cannot ask people to be his devotees.
- Then you say "your devotees" saying people have devotees.
Do you find some contradiction in your "appropriate" translations?
No contradiction, you cannot read or comprehend a thing; don't read context or who is being addressed, and you are mindlessly inserting slave same as the hearsay followers.
221 be devoted/serve your Lord ....
Do people possess The Lord? Are people unwilling slaves?
Owners of slaves and supporters of slavery are not believers nor can a believer be a slave to another person; death is better than oppression and those enslaved should try free themselves and the believers should always help them.