Slavery is Polytheism, the greatest sin against God and crime humanity
-
Salaam Edip,
I could not find the highlighted word above in 2432 or elsewhere in AlQuraan. If you are referring to IBaDi-kum as then you are translating it wrong. Because you cannot translate IBaDi-kum as slaves among you because then IBaDi-na has to be translated as slaves among us and also check 290 for IBaDi-Hi, that cannot be translated also as you have done above.
I think you made a mistake while typing unintentionally, please check and make necessary corrections.
Pointing it out does not mean that I support slavery, I am totally against slavery because AlQuraan does not support it.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanDear brother
The human language is not mathematics. So, please look at the references I have provided to support that particular point (5443; also see 724).
Since human languages could create ambiguity in meaning, the best way to eliminate such an ambiguity is to consider the immediate and then the entire context of the word/phrase/statement. Please be more attentive to the references I provide, and give me a little benefit of doubt, since I really studied the subject before I wrote those notes ))
Peace,
Edip -
Peace Edip.
Quote Slavery is prohibited by Qoran as one of the greatest sins
Are you sure all the verses you quoted as evidence are dealing with slavery? Some are dealing with" idolatry"like
Idolatry and slavery are two different things. Not that I do not agree with the statement, I just do not agree with all the verses you quoted.Also does not mention either slavery or idolatry.
Peace.
-
Dear brother
The human language is not mathematics. So, please look at the references I have provided to support that particular point (5443; also see 724).
Since human languages could create ambiguity in meaning, the best way to eliminate such an ambiguity is to consider the immediate and then the entire context of the word/phrase/statement. Please be more attentive to the references I provide, and give me a little benefit of doubt, since I really studied the subject before I wrote those notes ))
Peace,
EdipBut this all depends on how you define polytheism. Experience here has taught me that many don't have a clue what shirk is so they apply it on many things. This is something that i noticed about Quranist is that they use shirk in ways not supported by the reality of human history or Quranic verses.
-
Peace Bigmo.
GOD defines polytheism for you in Qoran
Shirk is believing anything other that GOD Alone can harm you or benefit you, as simple as that
" They serve/worship/... beside GOD what can neither harm them nor benefit them..."
Peace.
-
Peace Bigmo.
GOD defines polytheism for you in Qoran
Shirk is believing anything other that GOD Alone can harm you or benefit you, as simple as that
" They serve/worship/... beside GOD what can neither harm them nor benefit them..."
Peace.
So who is the "they" and describe me their beliefs. I notice I often get vague understanding of shirk when I ask that question to those who tend to accuse people of shirk. They never give you a theology but its something like "worshiping other than God" without telling us worshiping what. And what exactly is meant by "worshiping". These vague answers tells me that there has not been an investigation of what shirk is. They are assumptions made but no actual examples given.
From my understanding of shirk, shirk is the belief that God is not the sole creator or sustainer of existence and that many gods created and sustained the universe. Its the belief that no single deity can exist and that the divine world and the human world are intertwined. What this has to do with slavery is beyond me. Slavery is a form of oppression and tyrany as the Quran tells us about the Pharoah and Jospeh's brothers.
-
Peace Edip.
Quote Slavery is prohibited by Qoran as one of the greatest sins
Are you sure all the verses you quoted as evidence are dealing with slavery? Some are dealing with" idolatry"like
Idolatry and slavery are two different things. Not that I do not agree with the statement, I just do not agree with all the verses you quoted.Also does not mention either slavery or idolatry.
Peace.
Then you need to study the issue a bit.. I cannot spoon-feed everyone... If you are interested in the subject, it would take you less than 5 minutes to check several translations of the Quran about the (mis)translation of those verses... You have Super-secretary Google under your service, 24/7
Peace,
Edip -
The words are the main idols which enlsave most people.
Set yourself free from language, and the language will be your tool.
Otherwise it will only point your idols.
Peace,
R. -
Peace Edip.
I would not rely on anyone for spoon feeding or anything else. I rely only on my creator Alone. Also every thing we have/own belongs to/is from GOD anyway,even our time and knowledge.
I was pointing out that is about idolatry not slavery. Are you suggesting they are the same?
As you know there is only one unforgivable sin, it is idolatry , if one does not repent. You could argue that if one dies a disbeliever, then he/she is accountable for all sins. However, idolatry is the greatest of all sins, not slavery.
Also , all of us serve someone in life, technically we are all " slaves" to something or someone
Are they the ones who assign your Lord's mercy? We have assigned their shares in this life, raising some of them above others in ranks, in order to let them serve one another. The mercy from your Lord is far better than any material they may hoard.
I may read/show interest in all opinions, but I try and pick what " is best" with the help of my Lord..
May the Lord grant us more patience and help us to share our time and knowledge for His cause.
Peace.
-
Peace Bigmo.
"They" are the ones who believe anything else beside GOD Alone can harm them or benefit them.
Peace.
-
The words are the main idols which enlsave most people.
Set yourself free from language, and the language will be your tool.
Otherwise it will only point your idols.
Peace,
R.And the characters above are made of "words" and it is written according to the grammar and with the lexicon of a "language."
An example of pure "nonsense."
-
Peace Bigmo.
Some do not even know they are committing " Shirk". So it can be vague!
12106 The majority of those who believe in GOD, do not do so without committing idol worship.?(Believe other than GOD can harm them or benefit them/Follow others!).
Peace.
-
Peace Edip.
You are implying that Slavery = Idolatry ? ( The greatest sin against GOD!)
Please see reply 10.
Peace.
-
Peace Bigmo.
Some do not even know they are committing " Shirk". So it can be vague!
12106 The majority of those who believe in GOD, do not do so without committing idol worship.?(Believe other than GOD can harm them or benefit them/Follow others!).
Peace.
How can something that is worse than murder, rape, slavery, lying, cheating, betrayal and is something that is unforgiven be so vague and be done without people knowing they are doing it?
But now I know you don't know what shirk is that is why you downplay it.
Anyways, this is shirk
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7359195828637989025
You don't commit shirk, you believe in shirk. Its a theology not an act.
Good lecture. Please spread it around.
-
Peace Bigmo.
How am I downplaying shirk when I am saying it is the greatest sin?
It is you who is not understanding what I said.
I have quoted , do you understand what it means?
check this also http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/god-v-others/
Peace.
-
Peace Bigmo.
How am I downplaying shirk when I am saying it is the greatest sin?
It is you who is not understanding what I said.
I have quoted , do you understand what it means?
check this also http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/god-v-others/
Peace.
"Some do not even know they are committing " Shirk". So it can be vague!"
Shrik is not something someone can be involved in without knowing. It also is not something you just commit but its something you believe and accept. Its the theology behind the act that determines shirk and not just the act itself.
http//www.adf.org/articles/cosmology/discussing-pagan-theology.html
Norse creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_OBq865VjI&feature=related
Hinduism creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTy49JlgJZE
Ancient Egyptian creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNxZqINCyj4
Ancient Greek creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=75kDb2OqBWI&feature=related
The Incas creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayR4zAV43qk&feature=related
Germanic creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4-hnhqVPmw&feature=related
Shinto creation story.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=koxp_q46z0Q
Aboriginal creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3XoYZgvEH8
Some native American creation story
Even a casual glance at these shirk theologies we can see its not something people can be involved in without knowing what they are getting into. Its certainly the furthest thing from vagueness you can ever imagine. No follower of shirk can ever defend himself. Its a mockery of the divine and nothing else.
-
Peace Bigmo.
I disagree, some people practise " Shirk" but think they are guided.
Qoran confirms this.That is why" the majority who believe in God commit idol worship
Peace.
-
Peace Bigmo.
I disagree, some people practise " Shirk" but think they are guided.
Qoran confirms this.That is why" the majority who believe in God commit idol worship
Peace.
Gree with you.
but how do they ? do they say there is some one other then God almighty, or do they follow/ do according to other then commandments of God?
Try it ask a million Muslims, they will all deny anyone other then God Almighty and yet most will be doing certain things which are totally in opositon to the commandment of God, which to me is shirk.
As is slavery also.
peace -
"Some do not even know they are committing " Shirk". So it can be vague!"
Shrik is not something someone can be involved in without knowing. It also is not something you just commit but its something you believe and accept. Its the theology behind the act that determines shirk and not just the act itself.
http//www.adf.org/articles/cosmology/discussing-pagan-theology.html
Norse creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_OBq865VjI&feature=related
Hinduism creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTy49JlgJZE
Ancient Egyptian creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNxZqINCyj4
Ancient Greek creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=75kDb2OqBWI&feature=related
The Incas creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayR4zAV43qk&feature=related
Germanic creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4-hnhqVPmw&feature=related
Shinto creation story.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=koxp_q46z0Q
Aboriginal creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3XoYZgvEH8
Some native American creation story
Even a casual glance at these shirk theologies we can see its not something people can be involved in without knowing what they are getting into. Its certainly the furthest thing from vagueness you can ever imagine. No follower of shirk can ever defend himself. Its a mockery of the divine and nothing else.
Does it say it is the theolgy behind the action anywhere in the quran or is this your own opinion?
hmm
-
Does it say it is the theolgy behind the action anywhere in the quran or is this your own opinion?
hmm
This is a reality of what actually exists. This is the shirk that was praticed across mankind. There are many such verses of the Quran.
1742 - Say, "If there were any other gods beside Him, as they claim, they would have tried to overthrow the Possessor of the throne."
2122 - If there were in them (the Heavens and the Earth) other gods besides ALLAH, there would have been chaos. Glory be to ALLAH; the Lord with absolute authority. He is high above their claims.
2391 - ALLAH has never begotten a son. Nor was there any other god beside Him. Otherwise, each god would have declared independence with his creations, and they would have competed with each other for dominance. ALLAH be glorified; far above their claims.
1651 - ALLAH has proclaimed "Do not worship two gods; there is only one god. You shall reverence Me alone."
This notion that the pagans of Mecca used to believe in one God but simply praticed tawassul is a myth
I found this on the web
What is idolatry?
3125 - If you ask them, "Who created the Heavens and the Earth," they will say, "ALLAH." Say, "Praise be to ALLAH." Yet, most of them do not know.
Comment
Most people, though they agree that ALLAH created everything, still have doubts. That is why they disregard ALLAH's commands. This constitutes idolatry
http//www.godprovenas1.com/purpose/proofs_that_God_is_One.html
See this is the mistake. They understood that verse wrong. This is the same argument Muhamamd Ibn Abdul Wahhab, the founder of wahhabism, claimed. He claimed that the pagans of Mecca accepted God as the sole creator and sustainer but were mushriks because they practiced tawassul. This is not correct by a long shot.
The Arab Pagans believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah
The belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah was never denied by any of the previous nations, except few who denied the existence of Allah, like Fir?awn (Pharaoh), the atheists and communists of this age. The Arab Pagans amongst whom the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) was sent believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah. They believed in Allah to the extent that they declared Allah as the Supreme Lord. They acknowledged Him as the Creator of the Universe and considered Him to be the Sovereign and the Provider of sustenance, as is clear from the verses of Soorah al-Muminoon, Allah says ?Say (to the disbelievers) ?Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein? If you know!? They will say ?It is Allah? ? Say ?Who is the Lord of the seven Heavens and the Lord of the Great Throne?? They will say ?Allah? ? Say ?In whose Hands is the sovereignty of everything? And He protects all, while against whom there is no protector, if you know?? They will say ?(All this belongs) to Allah.?
However, the belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah did not make them Muslims, because they lacked Tawheed al-Uloohiyyah (Oneness of Allah?s Worship). Even though, the Arab Pagans believed that Allah was their Lord, they did not direct all forms of worship to Him alone. They believed that Angles and pious people had special status with Allah, and thus could intercede with Allah for them. They would say ?We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah.? Calling upon Allah for one?s needs is a great act of worship, and if it is directed towards other than Allah, it leads to Shirk in the worship. Allah revealed ?They worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say ?These are only our intercessors with Allah.?
Thus, Allah declared their act of seeking intercession with Allah as Shirk and termed them as Kafirun and Mushrikeen. He ordered His Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) to proclaim, ?I worship not that, which you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship, and I shall not worship that you are worshiping, nor will you worship that which I worship.? These verses of the Noble Qur?aan establish the importance of the Tawheed of worship along with the Tawheed of Lordship.
Essential Points From the above, we understand that the Arab Pagans, despite their ignorance and arrogance, completely understood the meaning of Ibaadah (worship). They believed that intercession is a form of worship, and did not deny that calling upon pious people amounted to worshiping them. They would call their idols, ?Aaliha?(pl. of Ilah lit. meaning, One, who is worshiped). This is in sharp contrast of the belief of the grave-worshipers of today, who make the engraved as intercessors with Allah, and yet do not consider it to be Shirk!!
http//www.ahya.org/tjonline/eng/02/1tawheed.html
This is simply incorrect. the pagans of Mecca did not believe in any kind of tawheed, they would not be pagans if they did.
This all started because of verses such as thisL
3125 - If you ask them, "Who created the Heavens and the Earth," they will say, "ALLAH." Say, "Praise be to ALLAH." Yet, most of them do not know
31.3 If indeed thou ask them who it is that created the heavens and the earth, they would be sure to say, "Allah". Say "See ye then? the things that ye invoke besides Allah,- can they, if Allah wills some Penalty for me, remove His Penalty?- Or if He wills some Grace for me, can they keep back his Grace?" Say "Sufficient is Allah for me! In Him trust those who put their trust
Than they claimed that this is proof that the pagans of Mecca believed in tawheed but were still mushriks because of other reasons. No pagan will believe in any kind of tawheed or else he wouldn't be a pagan by definition. That is why some people are labelling the term shirk on many things that has nothing to do with shirk.
Now watch this and you will see what these verses are saying
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YujY2pepGmo
He is claiming that hindusim is actually monoteism with a polytheistic naming and imagining of God. Just like the pagans of Mecca claimed that their paganism is a monotheistic religion but with a polytheistic intercessions. They would not abandon their gods for nobody.
Meanwhile this guy is stating exactly what the verses are saying.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEVRHwn2XKU&feature=related
He says
"Hindus all believe in one Supreme God who created the universe. He is all-pervasive. He created many Gods, highly advanced spiritual beings, to be His helpers."
Just like the verses are telling us.
In the end they would not change because that is how they were raised. Its all defensive argument and trying to distort what paganism and shirk is by trying to justify it. Even a casual glance at the pagans theology we know that no sane mind can accept it. So humans need a defense mechanism. The Quran will not accept that argument and said the real reason is they do not want to abandon what thier ancestors did even if their ancestor were silly.
To understand the verses of the Quran you need to understand who its refering to. By debating pagans as the prophet did you will understand what these verses are saying. That video says it all.
Now look at their actual aqeeda
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yWwFWpbRo
Need I need to say more?