Debating a Salafi

[Ayisha]

you want to see the size of the book on water to wash with!

Anyway, just watching this and done the first hour so far. The salafi guys body language is fun to watch but he's just claimed he had no idea what Edip was talking about as it was all rubbish, made perfect sense to me! salafi man doesn't seem to have a clue what he's talking about and less clue what's in Quran!! rotfl

[Ayisha]

Finished watching brickwall brickwall Edip definitely won that one but they do not 'see' it at all......they can't distinguish the prophet Muhammed and Bukhari at all, they just can't get it and I've had the same argument with many hadithist, they have a blockage brickwall

[unknownuser]

Finished watching brickwall brickwall Edip definitely won that one but they do not 'see' it at all......they can't distinguish the prophet Muhammed and Bukhari at all, they just can't get it and I've had the same argument with many hadithist, they have a blockage brickwall

Ayisha,

You are so on point!! Just this morning I thought about that...I don't have any doubt in the word of the Prophet...I doubt the sources who claim that he said it. )

Peace,

Amina

[mmkhan]

Finished watching brickwall brickwall Edip definitely won that one but they do not 'see' it at all......they can't distinguish the prophet Muhammed and Bukhari at all, they just can't get it and I've had the same argument with many hadithist, they have a blockage brickwall

Salaam Ayisha,

Red part Not only blockage still more and the reason for it is in 1745-46

1745
1745 And when you recite the Qur'an, We put between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter a concealed partition.

1746
1746 And We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn back in aversion.

May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

[unknownuser]

Salaam Ayisha,

Red part Not only blockage still more and the reason for it is in 1745-46

1745
1745 And when you recite the Qur'an, We put between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter a concealed partition.

1746
1746 And We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn back in aversion.

May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

bravo

[Ayisha]

Salaam Ayisha,

Red part Not only blockage still more and the reason for it is in 1745-46

1745
1745 And when you recite the Qur'an, We put between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter a concealed partition.

1746
1746 And We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn back in aversion.

May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

Yes, I have had much experience of this phenomenon in hadithists, it's like you might as well be telling them to follow the devil if you quote Quran at them and they react like I am some sort of satanic messenger! hypno

The blockage though is that they cannot understand that I'm not dissing the prophet as they can't get past that the hadith are NOT from him. They assume I'm saying you need nothing but Quran because I DON'T want to follow the messenger, they can't understand that I AM. They prefer to think God's messenger a pedophile, a murderer, a torturer who forced a new law onto us that we can be whipped and burnt for if we don't follow......such as the burning them in their homes for not hurrying to prayer.......and so many have never even heard that hadith. They can't see that if they want to follow the prophet's sunnah its in Quran anyway. brickwall

[mmkhan]

Yes, I have had much experience of this phenomenon in hadithists, it's like you might as well be telling them to follow the devil if you quote Quran at them and they react like I am some sort of satanic messenger! hypno

The blockage though is that they cannot understand that I'm not dissing the prophet as they can't get past that the hadith are NOT from him. They assume I'm saying you need nothing but Quran because I DON'T want to follow the messenger, they can't understand that I AM. They prefer to think God's messenger a pedophile, a murderer, a torturer who forced a new law onto us that we can be whipped and burnt for if we don't follow......such as the burning them in their homes for not hurrying to prayer.......and so many have never even heard that hadith. They can't see that if they want to follow the prophet's sunnah its in Quran anyway. brickwall

Salaam,

So right! As per my experience, Mohammed is everything for them far more than Allah. When I quoted them aayaats, they say, no, we cannot accept it because hadith say otherwise. & It was so scary for me and it was nothing for them.

And I totally agree with you with that satanic messenger thing.

May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

[Ayisha]

Apparently now I should guard my iman as I am following an unbeliever...........or maybe the warning was to others against listening to me the unbeliever.... rotfl

brickwall brickwall

[Shirin]

It is sad how almost all of you are fast to mock others and their belief. I don't have to remind you that those people you mock are the people who believe that there is no God, but God. What you do here is so unQuranic. &

[Ayisha]

It is sad how almost all of you are fast to mock others and their belief. I don't have to remind you that those people you mock are the people who believe that there is no God, but God. What you do here is so unQuranic. &

You are right, I stand corrected peace

[mmkhan]

It is sad how almost all of you are fast to mock others and their belief. I don't have to remind you that those people you mock are the people who believe that there is no God, but God. What you do here is so unQuranic. &

Salaam Shila,

Please correct the highlighted part above.

From
"the people who believe that there is no God, but God"

To
"the people who say that there is no God, but God"

We are not doing anything unQuranic inshaAllah. We are sharing our experience that we had. As per my experience many believe as

"the people who believe that there is no God, but Mohammed but say that there is no God, but God".

Believe me, this is my personal experiences I have faced many times. They never even have respect for Allah compare to Mohammed.

May Allah protect us from all kind of shirks and guide us to His only single path pr
mmKhan

[Shirin]

Salaam Shila,

Please correct the highlighted part above.

From
"the people who believe that there is no God, but God"

To
"the people who say that there is no God, but God"

We are not doing anything unQuranic inshaAllah. We are sharing our experience that we had. As per my experience many believe as

"the people who believe that there is no God, but Mohammed but say that there is no God, but God".

Believe me, this is my personal experiences I have faced many times. They never even have respect for Allah compare to Mohammed.

May Allah protect us from all kind of shirks and guide us to His only single path pr
mmKhan

Salaams Khan,

I beg to differ. You have no knowledge of whether people just say those words or they really feel it. That knowledge is with Allah s.w.t. since he is the only one who can look into person's heart. On the other hand, I understand what you are saying since I, myself, am familiar and, at times, annoyed with hardcore hadithists who are, to put it nicely, pretty stubborn in their belief concerning hadith but that is not a reason to mock them.

[mmkhan]

Salaams Khan,

I beg to differ. You have no knowledge of whether people just say those words or they really feel it. That knowledge is with Allah s.w.t. since he is the only one who can look into person's heart. On the other hand, I understand what you are saying since I, myself, am familiar and, at times, annoyed with hardcore hadithists who are, to put it nicely, pretty stubborn in their belief concerning hadith but that is not a reason to mock them.

Salaams Shila,

That is OK if you differ and you are right that only Allah knows what is in their hearts and He said that in AlQuraan.

28
28 And of the people are they who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.

29
29 They deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive not.

210
210 In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they used to lie.

211
211 And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."

212
212 Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive not.

You can go on reading the following aayaats till 220 and try comparing these aayaats with those who call themselves Muslims.

541
541 O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. Avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah ? never will you possess for him a thing against Allah. Those are the ones for whom Allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.

As I said before, I shared my personal experiences, I used to be a salafi and I used to give them dars, so, I know much about them. I faced them many times.

May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

[Shirin]

Salaams Shila,

That is OK if you differ and you are right that only Allah knows what is in their hearts and He said that in AlQuraan.

28
28 And of the people are they who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.

29
29 They deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive not.

210
210 In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they used to lie.

211
211 And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."

212
212 Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive not.

You can go on reading the following aayaats till 220 and try comparing these aayaats with those who call themselves Muslims.

541
541 O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. Avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah ? never will you possess for him a thing against Allah. Those are the ones for whom Allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.

As I said before, I shared my personal experiences, I used to be a salafi and I used to give them dars, so, I know much about them. I faced them many times.

Salaams Khan,

thanks for the verses D though I don't really think they talk about salafis, my understanding is that they speak about hypocrite people, who say they believe in God just to gain some earthly benefits or something like that.
Almost all of us followed/believed hadith for some period of time, by the will of God we stopped so, perhaps, God just wants to test us with people we once were. It's not OK to be arrogant after you were blessed.

May Allah protect us and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

x2 pr

This is the part of your posts I like the most, and instead of mocking salafis, you can pray like this for them too. It's a noble thing to do.

[mmkhan]

Salaams Khan,

thanks for the verses D though I don't really think they talk about salafis, my understanding is that they speak about hypocrite people, who say they believe in God just to gain some earthly benefits or something like that.
Almost all of us followed/believed hadith for some period of time, by the will of God we stopped so, perhaps, God just wants to test us with people we once were. It's not OK to be arrogant after you were blessed.

Salaams Shila,

Agreed! It is not specifically talking about Salafis and also it is not specifically talking about hypocrites though. But who soever falls in the said category are being referred by Allah. Be it a Salafi, Sufi, Sunni, Shia, Me, You or anyone else.

A small correct I am not being arrogant after Allah blessed me but I am showing their arrogance.

Let me tell you an incident. Once me and my friends discussing 6145 and they all stuck on hadith saying that Mohammed already said, whole pig is haraam, I was like hypno. I said this is Allah who is saying only flesh of pig is haraam not whole pig, they never care, they said when we already saw in hadith that whole pig is haraam, we don't wanna listen anything because that hadith explains this aayat that we cannot understand directly. Finally, me and one of my friend, taken the aayat as guidance and they all took hadith instead.

After a year or so, same thing happened with another person, he listened to many many aayaats, I was showing him for almost 3 hours and he agreed to all of them , surprisingly when we came to 6145 again on that pig thing. He rejects and said I have to study, I cannot say anything and he left. After few years when we met again, I asked him why you are preaching hadith in mosques when we already saw many aayaats on this and you also agreed to that. He replied, I was agreeing but when you said only flesh of pig is haraam, then I realized that you are misguided.
I said, what about other aayaats that you have seen for yourself. He said, no, I understood that you are misguiding me.

There are many many examples with me. Anyways...

x2 pr

This is the part of your posts I like the most, and instead of mocking salafis, you can pray like this for them too. It's a noble thing to do.

x2? ;D

OK then x3 pr

Thanks for your kind words. Do you really think that only praying for them gonna work? hmm What if I say, O God, make me the strongest man in this world and sit at home without doing any exercise? hmm

May Allah bless you and increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

[Maha]

Shila

thanks for the verses though I don't really think they talk about salafis, my understanding is that they speak about hypocrite people, who say they believe in God just to gain some earthly benefits or something like that

And Salafi arent hypocrite how?

This is the part of your posts I like the most, and instead of mocking salafis, you can pray like this for them too. It's a noble thing to do

so saying your opinion about salafis is mocking according to you? So we shall basically just shut up and stop having any opinions about them according to you?

Are you playing the police of freeminds since you feel a need of correcting and condemning each and everyone here?

[Ayisha]

be fair, I totally understand what Shila is saying and she is right........to a point.

example
"authu billahi min shaitan ilraheem .... as i said before, even you show them the truth, them hearts will be closed, and them ears will be closed, Allah guide her really or she gonna be lost in hell. and Allah protect us from commiting the same sin."

That is a post by someone in a group, this is about ME after being kicked out of the group for quoting Quran and they think I am the sinner for not accepting hadith, we do the same here though. Each are convinced they are right.

Maha, I LOVE your avatar pic bravo

[Meteora]

I read all posts since my last, and I'm sure that, with zero arrogance

Allah accepts we oppose, and ridicule people who believe Allah commanded we genitally mutilate boys and/or girls.

Allah accepts we oppose, and ridicule people who believe Allah commanded killing a person who leaves Islam, especially the ever-so-corrupted mainstream version.

Allah accepts we oppose, and ridicule people who believe Allah commanded we stone people to death if they have sex outside marriage.

Allah accepts that we oppose, and ridicule people who believe Allah commanded we're to believe Muhammad practiced and endorsed the jaw-dropping nonsense you'll find in just Bukhari and/or Muslim.

Allah accepts we oppose, and ridicule people who believe Allah's dress code for women is basically a very loose sack with a slit for the eyes, or simply the face showing, free of make-up or brow trims (I wonder then, what was the point of Allah saying to lower our gaze from the opposite sex to begin with?).

I could go on though it's pointless. Every sane, moral person here who stands for justice knows it is the truth, especially when they investigate Quran and free themselves of the shackles of hopeless mainstream Islam. Ayisha and mmkhan weren't being conceited, just acting out of their sense of justice and, more or less, common sense.

I don't see how it's not their punishment; I don't see how Allah doesn't have them already humiliated in this world; they already self-humiliate themselves more than we can.

[Meteora]

I think the following warrants its own post

well done edip! We are proud of you

Keep in mind that in particular sunnism is all about controling people and their mind, and when the sunnis loose that control, it threatens their whole ideology and that is why the salafi guy became so annoyed and angry although he tried his best not to show off his anger in order to avoid being labeled 'uncivilized' but basically he was a very typical stubborn hadither. Just watch how he after a while began to make personal attacks, as well as changing the subject in order to avoid the actual point.
If you notice it, you will see that these hadithers usually dont get angry while debating with non-muslims, but they become very angry and annoyed when debating former muslims or quran aloners because we are ''insiders'' who know their religion to depth as well as their weakness and secrets. Due to these obvious reasons, hadithers cannot fool us as they can fool non-muslims with their usual excuses.

but hey you could see that salafi holy guys legs rotfl is that a sign of holiness

Its only when you debate secular sunnis/shiites or sunnis/shiites who dont take their religion so serious, that you can expect some kind of agreement and understanding. I have spoken to some secular sunnis who agreed with me regarding hadith, but that didnt made them take any action since they already didnt gave religion any serious importance.

But good work Edip bravo

Excellent observation. Some years back I began to think the same. As I was reading the part bolded, Yusuf Estes came to mind. I used to listen to his nonsensical lectures online, then I listened to a "khutba" he gave at a local mosque around where I live. All his lectures to non-Muslims, were generally free of hate, arrogance, not as stupid, and somewhat made you want to listen. The khutba he gave opposing Quran-aloners was lolworthy. His thesis basically was that Quran-aloners are "shayaateens" (devils) since they just believe in Allah like the Devil does, and are not actually "practicing" the religion, just as the Devil doesn't either. To actually believe in Allah AND do that which Allah wants, you have to follow the Quran and the Sunnah. Lol.

No really, you can't hate me for laughing there considering what the Sunnah actually commands you to do.

[Ayisha]

I read all posts since my last, and I'm sure that, with zero arrogance

Allah accepts we oppose, and ridicule people who believe Allah commanded we genitally mutilate boys and/or girls.

Allah accepts we oppose, and ridicule people who believe Allah commanded killing a person who leaves Islam, especially the ever-so-corrupted mainstream version.

Allah accepts we oppose, and ridicule people who believe Allah commanded we stone people to death if they have sex outside marriage.

Allah accepts that we oppose, and ridicule people who believe Allah commanded we're to believe Muhammad practiced and endorsed the jaw-dropping nonsense you'll find in just Bukhari and/or Muslim.

Allah accepts we oppose, and ridicule people who believe Allah's dress code for women is basically a very loose sack with a slit for the eyes, or simply the face showing, free of make-up or brow trims (I wonder then, what was the point of Allah saying to lower our gaze from the opposite sex to begin with?).

I could go on though it's pointless. Every sane, moral person here who stands for justice knows it is the truth, especially when they investigate Quran and free themselves of the shackles of hopeless mainstream Islam. Ayisha and mmkhan weren't being conceited, just acting out of their sense of justice and, more or less, common sense.

I don't see how it's not their punishment; I don't see how Allah doesn't have them already humiliated in this world; they already self-humiliate themselves more than we can.

oppose yes, ridicule no.

23.110 "But ye treated them with ridicule, so much so that (ridicule of) them made you forget My Message while ye were laughing at them!