Jumma prayer

Mikhail_Matin

Salam Good Logic,

Yes, Ive not been going to Jumma since the day I started questioning my Sunni Islam faith. I am now trying to follow what God want of me and not what men want of me. To cut the story short, I am now looked upon as somebody who is defiant of my own religion by my peers. There are no "God alone" mosque here for me to perform my Jumma prayer with people who have the same belief as me.

Salam tlihawa,

very interesting read...... but seems really hard to digest... all those verses are actually talking about trading and not worship or prayer?
I really appreciate your reply and will surely look into it much much deeper

NOMAD

Salaam

Depend if you see Salat as prayer or Divine Laws.

Salaam

tlihawa

Salam tlihawa,

very interesting read...... but seems really hard to digest... all those verses are actually talking about trading and not worship or prayer?
I really appreciate your reply and will surely look into it much much deeper

Salam Mikahil,
sorry for late response.
About your question, yes they are. As you can see on my previous explanation that Solla means commitment on something, regarding the context of the verses. In 629, the context is trading, and in 4101-103, the context is covenant of piece.

Here is another example

Peace Dawn,
Wudu, it?s all about hygiene. As you can see in Quran, there are so many verses talking about ablution both physically and mentally..
In verse 811, God has sent down the water from the sky to cleanse us, and He has explained how to do it in 56.

811 Sleep overcame you to give you tranquility from Him; and He sent down to you water from the sky to cleanse you with it and cause the affliction of the devil to leave you; and so that He may strengthen your hearts and set firm your feet.

56 O you who believe, if you rise to commit (on hygiene), then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.

Allah wants to cleanse the believer, both physically and mentally. And Verse 56 confirming physical ablution.
Some people think that ablution is precondition of Salaa. I think the ablution (physically and mentally) itself is Salaa (commitment on hygiene).

Now let's jump into alcohol thing.

443 O you who believe, do not make commitment while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying.

Most of commitment made according to the books dealing with other people, such as covenant, marriage, trading, etc. When you made commitment, you have to know for sure what you are saying. Too much alcohol makes you get drunk, and you cannot control your mind and you won't remember what you are saying.

It's very clear after saying unrealized commitment, you will get strife with other people

591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants (khamr) and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the commitment. Will you be deterred?

Peace

Peace..

good_logic

Peace tlihawa.

How can" BE ABOUT COMMITMENT TO HYGIENE".

Don t you think if it was about hygiene God would have asked you to wash under your arms and other areas that need it most?

It is about " obeying a specific instruction " from GOD as a trial to see who deviates from it. As you can clearly see in " traditional islam" ablution has changed to washing your mouth, ears and nose as well. ie more steps have been added.

Try again your "commitment " idea does not fit?

Peace.

Azz

I'm not sure if this is "correct" or not, following by Quran only is new to me. I currently...still attend jumah prayer and carry it out like everyone else (in the masjid I go to anyway) does it. Perhaps it's been beaten into my brain so hard lol, but I just feel that a group of muslims all praying in unison like this is a beautiful thing. Parts of what is currently treated as the standard jumah prayer may be seen as unobligatory or not even necessary but it's the method that's currently in popular use and at the very least it covers everything that's stated in the Quran.

redsulphur1229

Mikhail Matin, AA
Your reference to 629 is incorrect - there is no reference to "jummah" in that verse, rather, it refers to "jumuah" (gathering). Yaum ul jumuah only means "day of gathering". No particular day of the week is mentioned, especially since at that time, the day of the week now known as Jummah was then known as Aruba.

tlihawa

Peace tlihawa.

How can" BE ABOUT COMMITMENT TO HYGIENE".

Don t you think if it was about hygiene God would have asked you to wash under your arms and other areas that need it most?

It is about " obeying a specific instruction " from GOD as a trial to see who deviates from it. As you can clearly see in " traditional islam" ablution has changed to washing your mouth, ears and nose as well. ie more steps have been added.

Try again your "commitment " idea does not fit?

Peace.

Salam good logic,

yes you right, I have made some adjustment in my understanding as you can see below. It talks about purification. I do believe in commitment rather than a ritual cause so far I found it fit in all cases in Al Quran.

As far as I know that both mental and physical purification is required to understand the Guidance (Al Quran).

Here is my comment a few months ago regarding the physical purification

Salam Bender,
yup, you might right. I'm not good enough in arabic, but I can see logical fallacy in my conclusion. But let's make it right by linking these following verses

=Commitment (Salla) to recite Al Quran=

1778 Uphold commitment at the sunset till the darkness of the night, and quran at dawn and the Qur'an at dawn; the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed.

= Dal-Lam-Kaf = rubbing, squeezing, pressing, decline, sinking, become red, set, incline downwards from the meridian (sun). The whole phrase "duluk-as-shams" defined as "sunset" by Lane.

1779 And from the night you shall reflect upon it additionally for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you a station that is praiseworthy.

Here, the commitment is to recite Al Quran.

The time frame here is match with the following verse

11114 And uphold commitment at the two ends of the day and the near part of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.

So we have three part of the day. The dawn, the dusk, and the night, to recite Quraan.

=Purpose of Reading Quran=

2187 ...seek what God has written for you..

=Do and Don't=

Do
56 O you who believe, if you rise to commit (reciting quraan), then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles;

reason behind this

56 ....God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you <liyuahhirakum>..

caused by
5677 It is an honorable Qur'an.
5678 In a protected Book.
5679 None can grasp it except those purified <muaharna>

Dont's

Having sexual intercourse before recite Al Quran.

2196 ...If you are abstain from sexual intercourse <uh'sir'tum>, then it will be easier for the guidance <hadyi> ; and do not disturb your heads until you reach the guidance (to be focus).

if you do it then

56 ... and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe...

Same reason
56 ....God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you <liyuahhirakum>..

caused by
5677 It is an honorable Qur'an.
5678 In a protected Book.
5679 None can grasp it except those purified <muaharna>

So here we talk about the physical ablution to make it easier for the guidance. But I need your input to make it right, especially in arabic grammar in case I missed something or made logical fallacy. Thanks!

Peace..

And here is about the mental purification

Yup, it's up to opinions )

But you need to consider that both physical and mental purification do exist. And both of them required actions.
As you can see, that physical purification required ablution. And the mental purification required sadaqati.

9103 Take from their money a charity <sadaqatan> to purify them and develop them with it, and make commitment with them; your commitment is a tranquility for them; and God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.

You could not eliminate the involvement of the 'actions' (I prefer to use this word instead of rituals )). You cannot get purified mentally before giving sadaqati or charity, and the ablution for the physical purification.

Both of this actions will end up with reward from God, the guidance.

But please be aware that the mental purification mentioning the Sadaqati, not Infaq.

You might be aware that Infaq is different than Sadaqati from the point of the recipients and the source of funding.

=The source of funding=

2219 ..And they ask you how much they are to spend (yunfiqna) , say "The excess." It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.

9103 Take from their money a charity <sadaqatan> to purify them and develop them with it, and make commitment with them; your commitment is a tranquility for them; and God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.

After making the monthly budget, we shall know the excess amount of our money. This is what we called Infaq. It's a predictable expenses.

And the Sadaqatan is a little bit different, it used the word, "take", means that this expense could be not listed in our monthly budget. It could be unexpected costs, or in the other words, the money that we love.

You will got the context if you read the verses which talks about sadaqati.

=The Receipients=

960 Indeed, the charities <sadaqatul> are for the poor, and the needy, and those who work to collect them, and those whose hearts have been united, and to free the slaves, and those in debt, and in the cause of God, and the wayfarer. A duty from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

2215 They ask you what they should spend <yunfiqna> , say "What you spend out <anfaqtum> of goodness should go to your parents and the relatives and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer. And any good you do, God is fully aware of it."

So the recipients which are in common between sadaqati and infaq are only the needy and the wayfarer. So we must be wise enough to allocate our money between the recipients, to optimize the purpose of Infaq and Sadaqati.

peace..

PS I cannot open the link you gave me, probably bad internet connection on my side or their server down (
But thanks anyway Kaiokenred

Some of the my Quran translations maybe different than yours, but you can find my explanation in this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603590.msg293981#msg293981

Peace

good_logic

Peace tlihawa.

Thank you for your reply.

Is the process of going through the steps of " washing" before reciting not a ritual?

why " commit" or " purify " just at certain times? Are you supposed to stop " committing" and " purifying" in between? Is the" commitment and purification" not ongoing 24/7?

Are we not going through many " rituals" in our daily life when we -eat, meet friends, perform certain tasks...- We call them " habits/ duties...". Some" rituals " have become a way of our life without even realising it.

Obedience to many systems comes in all sorts of rituals, just look at all the different traditions?

So why should obedience to God not be demonstrate through some " ritual" ?

Just some thoughts?
Peace.

tlihawa

Peace tlihawa.

Thank you for your reply.

Is the process of going through the steps of " washing" before reciting not a ritual?

Yes it is. Don't get confused with the term rituals on some other actions. I do some rituals such as "washing", giving charity, slaughtered the livestock at hajj, but I did not do the Solla by bending and prostrating phisycally.

why " commit" or " purify " just at certain times? Are you supposed to stop " committing" and " purifying" in between? Is the" commitment and purification" not ongoing 24/7?

Purification is related to the guidance (5677-79). And to seek for the guidance, you must read the Quran. If you think you can read Quran in 24x7, please go ahead. But here is the best practices I found in Quran

7320 ...So read what is made easy of the Quran. He knows that there will be sick among you, and others that go forth in the land seeking from the bounty of God, and others who are fighting in the cause of God, so read what you can of it...

Are we not going through many " rituals" in our daily life when we -eat, meet friends, perform certain tasks...- We call them " habits/ duties...". Some" rituals " have become a way of our life without even realising it.

I agree. peace

Obedience to many systems comes in all sorts of rituals, just look at all the different traditions?

So why should obedience to God not be demonstrate through some " ritual" ?

Just some thoughts?
Peace.

I agree for some cases. I did livestock slaughtering on last hajj. But I didn't do Solla by bending and prostating physically . Once again, it is not about Ritual vs No-Ritual.
One must do their homework to see whether their current understanding of Solla, fit with the entire message in the Quran.
If you have done with your research, and you got the final conclusion that Solla is a ritual by bending and prostrating phisically, that is the truth for you.

Cause everyone has the right to have their own opinion

17 84 Say ?Everyone acts according to his own disposition But your Lord knows best who it is that is best guided on the Way.?

and I'm not in the position to judge your opinion.

Peace

Wakas

peace good logic, all,

Unfortunately a common misperception is that any "ritual" is bad, if it happens to be labelled a "ritual". Here is the dictionary definition of "ritual"

rit?u?al
noun

A religious or solemn ceremony consisting of a series of actions performed according to a prescribed order

the ancient rituals of Christian worship
the role of ritual in religion

A prescribed order of performing such a ceremony, esp. one characteristic of a particular religion or church
A series of actions or type of behavior regularly and invariably followed by someone

The word "ritual" is commonly associated with (1) and (2) above, however it can also mean (3) which is without religious connotation. This is important, because for example, brushing one's teeth every night before bed can be classed as a "ritual". Is such a ritual wrong? Are all rituals wrong, no matter the ritual?

To me, clearly not. For me, the key is whether this "ritual" has a benefit, ideally a tangible/empirical/practical/logical benefit.

Using the above, we can differentiate. For example, if a religious ritual is not based on reason/evidence and/or does not result in the stated benefit, then there is likely something wrong. In such a situation, one must ponder over such a "ritual" to determine if one has a correct understanding and/or application of it.

good_logic

Peace Wakas ;tlihawa; all

Are some" rituals" useless and a waste of time?

Quote from Wakas To me, clearly not. For me, the key is whether this "ritual" has a benefit, ideally a tangible/empirical/practical/logical benefit.

I agree. And to each their " rituals" as long as common sense, reason , knowledge and evidence from Qoran are being used.

Peace.

mirjamnur

peace good logic, all,

Unfortunately a common misperception is that any "ritual" is bad, if it happens to be labelled a "ritual". Here is the dictionary definition of "ritual"

The word "ritual" is commonly associated with (1) and (2) above, however it can also mean (3) which is without religious connotation. This is important, because for example, brushing one's teeth every night before bed can be classed as a "ritual". Is such a ritual wrong? Are all rituals wrong, no matter the ritual?

To me, clearly not. For me, the key is whether this "ritual" has a benefit, ideally a tangible/empirical/practical/logical benefit.
bravo

Using the above, we can differentiate. For example, if a religious ritual is not based on reason/evidence and/or does not result in the stated benefit, then there is likely something wrong. In such a situation, one must ponder over such a "ritual" to determine if one has a correct understanding and/or application of it.