Qiblah...searched but found no answer
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Okay, so now that I read 2143-144 here is what I get
God made the previous qibla only to see who would be obedient and who would disobey, and now that we have been given the order to face the Sacred Mosque, we are no longer to face the previous qibla.
Am I understanding that correctly?
There is no such thing "previous Qiblata". Meccans had all along only one-whatever they did in the past, they always revered Ka'aba and it was always the centre of their attraction. Those of the Jews and Christians who accepted Qur'aan, reverted from their man made Qiblata of direction East and West to original Qiblata Ka'aba.
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Notice that understanding is not a prerequisite for obedience.
Understanding is a branch of wisdom,
While obedience is a branch of trustRight, but we need to be careful whom we trust. It takes discernment to trust the right sources. The messengers are not walking around us today, as far as I'm aware, so all we have is the quran, and inner guidance from Allah. The quran has to be understood correctly (as much as possible) to follow it properly. I don't think cutting a thief's hand displays much understanding or wisdom... but it many times shows blind trust in mullahs and s.c. scholars n elders.
You are right in what you say, but in practice it becomes a bit more tricky.
We would not be following conjecture if we obey Allah
This is true. But aren't there at the same time lots of people of think they follow Allah, but it is painfully obvious that they don't. I'm talking about e.g. people who are into suppression and oppression... but they still think they're obeying Allah and messenger. So they don't understand.
1736
I'm not sure that this verse includes God and his messenger, maybe you could expound.oh, 1736 is about what we accept and why... you know, about verifying stuff first. I thought it was suitable with regard to obedience, trust, wisdom and understanding. You're right, the verse is not about Allah and any of its messengers.
And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).
I agree that we need to trust Allah, especially when we are lost. The alternative would be to trust our minds, which often is a recipe for suffering. But I guess the point is something else. The real issue is WHY we decide to follow something by trust only, and HOW we came to the conclusion of doing this. If the answer to these things is that we do it because we trust that Allah will guide us further and better, then it is good. But to avoid understanding matters out of fear of questioning, or out of tradition, then it is not so good. I mean, the quran speaks about both trust and verification, without contradiction, so we have to understand what is required when.
Peace bro!
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There is no such thing "previous Qiblata". Meccans had all along only one-whatever they did in the past, they always revered Ka'aba and it was always the centre of their attraction. Those of the Jews and Christians who accepted Qur'aan, reverted from their man made Qiblata of direction East and West to original Qiblata Ka'aba.
sigh
Back to the drawing board...
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Salaam,
I don't understand why people relate "qiblata" with "salaat", is there any relation mentioned in AlQuraan between these two for us? Please do let me know, thanks.
http//s12.postimage.org/xdc6wq3u5/Facing_Kaaba.jpg
1- Is it really possible for everyone on earth to face so called Kaaba?
2- 2144 asking to face towards alMasjid alHaraam, what are they doing inside so called alMasjid alHaraam?Can someone please answer me this?
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan.
This has nothing to do with answering your question. As a matter of fact it is a thought provoking question
Imagine a group of people , a congregation performing salat together like the millions of " muslims" across the world do- sunnis, shiites,...-, Now if they do not all face the same way, there will be chaos?
Can you imagine if everyone faced any way they choose?
Peace.
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Salaam,
I don't understand why people relate "qiblata" with "salaat", is there any relation mentioned in AlQuraan between these two for us? Please do let me know, thanks.
http//s12.postimage.org/xdc6wq3u5/Facing_Kaaba.jpg
1- Is it really possible for everyone on earth to face so called Kaaba?
2- 2144 asking to face towards alMasjid alHaraam, what are they doing inside so called alMasjid alHaraam?Can someone please answer me this?
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanPlease don't forget two things First, most of us were "taught" to equate the two. Secondly, not everyone read/speaks Arabic.
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Salaam Amina,
Did I posted in Arabic? hmm If so, I am sorry.
mmKhan
No, I just mean that since some of us don't know Arabic, the different meanings or origins of words are hard to understand. But I thank you for posting the links, as they really help.
Peace!
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No, I just mean that since some of us don't know Arabic, the different meanings or origins of words are hard to understand. But I thank you for posting the links, as they really help.
Peace!
Peace Amina,
Thanks for reminding me that, I always try to keep in mind about people who don't know Arabic so try to make my post easy to understand for them. InshaAllah, I will keep this in mind always
Peace!
mmKhan -
Peace Amina,
Thanks for reminding me that, I always try to keep in mind about people who don't know Arabic so try to make my post easy to understand for them. InshaAllah, I will keep this in mind always )
Peace!
mmKhanThanks...I also like how you don't "give" us the answer...you make us go and look them up ourselves. There is a great lesson in that, because so many people just accept what they are told instead of actually reading or looking something up themselves. I know converts that are studying the Qur'an with alims (I think that means person of knowledge) and even though they are learning the Arabic language, they accept the translation that they are given. I would think that once someone learns the language they would be able to see that something is wrong.
Peace,
Amina
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Peace Zulf,
Right, but we need to be careful whom we trust. It takes discernment to trust the right sources. The messengers are not walking around us today, as far as I'm aware, so all we have is the quran, and inner guidance from Allah. The quran has to be understood correctly (as much as possible) to follow it properly. I don't think cutting a thief's hand displays much understanding or wisdom... but it many times shows blind trust in mullahs and s.c. scholars n elders.
You are right in what you say, but in practice it becomes a bit more tricky.
Peace bro!Yes discernment , the built in lie detector, must be enhanced thru study and reflection.
I believe that is why many of us have "landed" at free-minds.org because we do not trick so
easily by Allah's leave. You give a perfect example of discernment when you analogize about
cutting the thiefs hand. On this I agree with the RK translation of marking the hand because
the offender may have a farm and dependents and the removal of the hand would create
undue hardship. Our opinions are just that, rather its the opinion of you, me, mullahs,sheiks
or anybody else, all are information to help us make decisions.As per Quran we are not allowed to blame shaytayn for our lack of discernment
And the devil will say, after the judgment had been issued, "GOD has promised you the truthful promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you, and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have disbelieved in your idolizing me. The transgressors have incurred a painful retribution."
This is true. But aren't there at the same time lots of people of think they follow Allah, but it is painfully obvious that they don't. I'm talking about e.g. people who are into suppression and oppression... but they still think they're obeying Allah and messenger. So they don't understand.
Peace bro!I agree
I would like to touch on oppression, suppression, tyranny, and hipocracy that
are rampant in the islamic world todayMany leaders of the islamic world have no fear of judgement day due to ego, delusion
anger or greed, therefore they behave in a manner of unaccountability. The people must abandon
these leaders before it's too late.
"They are the ones whose works in this life are totally astray, but they think that they are doing good."
Those who do not believe in the Hereafter, we adorn their works in their eyes. Thus, they continue to blunder.
It is these who incur the worst retribution, and in the Hereafter, they will be the worst losers.Peace O0
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Peace Zulf,
Yes discernment , the built in lie detector, must be enhanced thru study and reflection.
I believe that is why many of us have "landed" at free-minds.org because we do not trick so
easily by Allah's leave. You give a perfect example of discernment when you analogize about
cutting the thiefs hand. On this I agree with the RK translation of marking the hand because
the offender may have a farm and dependents and the removal of the hand would create
undue hardship. Our opinions are just that, rather its the opinion of you, me, mullahs,sheiks
or anybody else, all are information to help us make decisions.As per Quran we are not allowed to blame shaytayn for our lack of discernment
And the devil will say, after the judgment had been issued, "GOD has promised you the truthful promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you, and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have disbelieved in your idolizing me. The transgressors have incurred a painful retribution." I agree
I would like to touch on oppression, suppression, tyranny, and hipocracy that
are rampant in the islamic world todayMany leaders of the islamic world have no fear of judgement day due to ego, delusion
anger or greed, therefore they behave in a manner of unaccountability. The people must abandon
these leaders before it's too late.
"They are the ones whose works in this life are totally astray, but they think that they are doing good."
Those who do not believe in the Hereafter, we adorn their works in their eyes. Thus, they continue to blunder.
It is these who incur the worst retribution, and in the Hereafter, they will be the worst losers.Peace O0
Peace,
That reminded me so much of Surah An-Nas...
1140 In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
1141 Say ?I seek refuge with the Lord of the people,?
1142 ?The King of the people,?
1143 ?The god of the people,?
1144 ?From the evil of the sneaking whisperer,?
1145 ?Who whispers into the chests of the people.?
1146 ?From the Jinn and the people.?Shaytan just whispers the suggestion to us...we then decide whether or not to put those suggestions into action.
May Allah guide us along the straight path.
Peace,
Amina
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Thanks...I also like how you don't "give" us the answer...you make us go and look them up ourselves. There is a great lesson in that, because so many people just accept what they are told instead of actually reading or looking something up themselves. I know converts that are studying the Qur'an with alims (I think that means person of knowledge) and even though they are learning the Arabic language, they accept the translation that they are given. I would think that once someone learns the language they would be able to see that something is wrong.
Peace,
Amina
Peace Amina,
Thank you for your nice and kind words.
Very true, many people who learn Arabic language don't use it to understand AlQuraan by themselves, they are so dependent on others that they are afraid to take their own decisions. In fact, they have been taught that way by so called a3lims.
May Allah bless you and may He increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
As per Quran we are not allowed to blame shaytayn for our lack of discernment
Yes, this is very important to remember, even on a mundane, every-day level. Human beings have a tendency to blame everything on other people, events etc. By blaming things outside yourself, you rob yourself of power. No matter what or who caused the issue, rightfully or wrongfully, one must take responsibility by taking charge of the now, and not give in or give up. One must take charge of one's own life here and now, even at the most basic level of taking charge of one's own mind! That's where it starts. By blaming, we resist reality, we hide and deny. This will only lead to stagnation and suffering.
Many leaders of the islamic world have no fear of judgement day due to ego, delusion
anger or greed, therefore they behave in a manner of unaccountability. The people must abandon
these leaders before it's too late.No fear of the judgement day, to me, means that i) they don't really believe in it, ii) they have misunderstood it. I think it is a huge mistake to see the judgement day (which I find is a misleading name for it) as a point in time where we will be judged according to what we have done. We should instead think of the judgement as something ONGOING that takes place every second. The record is being written RIGHT NOW. But the final consequences will be realized at a point in the future... but there will be no judgment in the sense of weighing evidence for and against. All evidence is in the record, which is completed and closed already at that time. Only the execution of the effect will happen then. The record will provoke the only possible effect (judgement) as per Allah's divine and natural system of reality and balances, in which mercy is included. Even mercy will be fairly given. So it is not wise to dismiss the judgement day as something in the future. It's happening right now. And those who cannot grasp that, will not take heed.... and they will keep playing their sinister games of ego and delusion.
Peace and cheers!
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Yes, this is very important to remember, even on a mundane, every-day level. Human beings have a tendency to blame everything on other people, events etc. By blaming things outside yourself, you rob yourself of power. No matter what or who caused the issue, rightfully or wrongfully, one must take responsibility by taking charge of the now, and not give in or give up. One must take charge of one's own life here and now, even at the most basic level of taking charge of one's own mind! That's where it starts. By blaming, we resist reality, we hide and deny. This will only lead to stagnation and suffering.
No fear of the judgement day, to me, means that i) they don't really believe in it, ii) they have misunderstood it. I think it is a huge mistake to see the judgement day (which I find is a misleading name for it) as a point in time where we will be judged according to what we have done. We should instead think of the judgement as something ONGOING that takes place every second. The record is being written RIGHT NOW. But the final consequences will be realized at a point in the future... but there will be no judgment in the sense of weighing evidence for and against. All evidence is in the record, which is completed and closed already at that time. Only the execution of the effect will happen then. The record will provoke the only possible effect (judgement) as per Allah's divine and natural system of reality and balances, in which mercy is included. Even mercy will be fairly given. So it is not wise to dismiss the judgement day as something in the future. It's happening right now. And those who cannot grasp that, will not take heed.... and they will keep playing their sinister games of ego and delusion.
Peace and cheers!
Peace Zulf
I like how you put that! Someone else explained to me as this We are currently taking the test, we will find out whether we passed or failed on judgement day.
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No fear of the judgement day, to me, means that i) they don't really believe in it, ii) they have misunderstood it. I think it is a huge mistake to see the judgement day (which I find is a misleading name for it) as a point in time where we will be judged according to what we have done. We should instead think of the judgement as something ONGOING that takes place every second. The record is being written RIGHT NOW. But the final consequences will be realized at a point in the future... but there will be no judgment in the sense of weighing evidence for and against. All evidence is in the record, which is completed and closed already at that time. Only the execution of the effect will happen then. The record will provoke the only possible effect (judgement) as per Allah's divine and natural system of reality and balances, in which mercy is included. Even mercy will be fairly given. So it is not wise to dismiss the judgement day as something in the future. It's happening right now. And those who cannot grasp that, will not take heed.... and they will keep playing their sinister games of ego and delusion.
Peace and cheers!
Peace Zulf,
Well said and a keeper for all those who read your explanation.Peace O0
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Peace,
I found another thread regarding facing the Qiblah during prayer but it didn't really answer my question. I read this ayat
2143 And thus we have made you a middle nation that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you. And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful.
...and remembered this one
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but
pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels,
and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love
to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer,
and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the
contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and
those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those
who are patient in the face of hardship and adversity and when
in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these
are the righteous.Am I to understand this to mean that we don't need to face the Qiblah to pray?
Peace,
Amina
"Am I to understand this to mean that we don't need to face the Qiblah to pray?"
You already answered your question when you said you searched but found no answer. Well verse 2.177 answered your question why you searched but found no answer. Because its not necessary for your salvation. Anything that is needed for you salvation you will find it in the Quran.
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Peace all,
Lane's lexicon is somewhat scanty from the letter qaaf onwards, and I couldn't even find "qiblah".
So here are the listed meanings of "qiblah" in Al-Munjid
- a direction
- the direction of the prays
- anything that is opposite something
- it is said "he has no qiblah and no dibrah in this affair", that is, "he does not know whence to approach it"
- "make your homes a qiblah", , "...opposite "
Az-Zabeedi adds the following definitions in Taaj Al-Arus
- the Ka'bah
- in the Quranic verse "make your homes a qiblah", it is meant "...masjids"
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Salaam,
I don't understand why people relate "qiblata" with "salaat", is there any relation mentioned in AlQuraan between these two for us? Please do let me know, thanks.
http//s12.postimage.org/xdc6wq3u5/Facing_Kaaba.jpg
1- Is it really possible for everyone on earth to face so called Kaaba?
2- 2144 asking to face towards alMasjid alHaraam, what are they doing inside so called alMasjid alHaraam?
Can someone please answer me this?
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanPeace mmkhan,
Yes it possible for everyone to "face" a single point.First the Illustration is incorrect because the individual is not "Facing" Mecca.
Let me reillustrate If person A is facing person B and person C stepped between
persons A and B, Person A would still be "facing" person B irregardless of Person C
standing between them.Does this make sense?
Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid; wherever you might be, you shall turn your faces (during Salat) towards it. Thus, the people will have no argument against you, except the transgressors among them. Do not fear them, and fear Me instead. I will then perfect My blessings upon you, that you may be guided.
Peace O0
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Peace all...
This thread is starting to remind me of a small part in a movie called Collision Course which starred Pat Morita and Jay Leno. Language barriers proved hilarious...like "You have to much mousse in your hair" immediately got a response from Pat as he thought of an actual "moose" in a person's hair. Good movie if you have never seen it.
The term "facing" seems to be expressed or comprehended differently in English versus Arabic. To me, facing means that the front of my body is in a certain direction. Right now as I am at my desk, I am facing northwest-ish. I am also face to face with my computer screen. To me, they mean the same thing.
When I looked it up, I came up with the same results that uq did. I tried Lane's Lexicon, but couldn't make out the characters to save my life (of course, I don't know Arabic).
So I think it is possible to be "facing" something although not directly in front of it.
Peace,
Amina