Cartoon and Short film Competition (2012)
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Peace Raaajah.
First let me tell you that I do not support " some silly cartoon" nor do I agree with your argument against Edip.
Quote The better and Quranic way would have been to convince without hurting others sentiments
I do not know which Qoran you have been reading, but the Qoran i know, the one authored by GOD is blunt and to the point about -Idol worshippers, Hypocrites and Disbelievers- God has made it absolutely clear that they are the lowest of the low.
The biggest fools are those who created the " religion of traditional Islam" enslaving and burdening their own people with medieval rules and traditions that kept them backward and in misery. They are a laughing stock compared to the rest of the world.
As far as God is concerned , they get what they deserve in this life, and HE is waiting for them with a greater punishment on the day of judgement unless they repent.
peace.
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I do not know which Qoran you have been reading, but the Qoran i know, the one authored by GOD is blunt and to the point about -Idol worshippers, Hypocrites and Disbelievers- God has made it absolutely clear that they are the lowest of the low.
I think dear you have not read the post carefully; He is trying to invoke Muslims against Muslims and I am talking about those misguided people and not about disbelievers or so, What Quran says about them I do not agree with your point of view but that is not the issue at hand. He is trying to further create misconception between Muslims, and Quran does not allow this period.
I
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They're planing on making more cartoons here...
French Weekly To Publish Caricatures Of Prophet Muhammad
http//www.rferl.org/content/french-weekly-to-publish-muhammad-caricatures/24712594.html -
I don't care about pictures of Muhammad but what you are suggesting is wrong. Majority of Muslims believe that any depiction of our beloved Prophet is an insult and no matter what your intentions are they will take it as such. You are violating their beliefs and in return they will respond with violence, in best case you would be called an enemy of Islam and I don't think any Muslim would love to have that nickname.
Someone here said we should only fear Allah s.w.t. not people, which is correct, but if I remember correctly Allah does not love wrongdoers and what you are calling for is wrong on many levels.
Peace peace
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and no matter what your intentions are they will take it as such. You are violating their beliefs and in return they will respond with violence, in best case you would be called an enemy of Islam and I don't think any Muslim would love to have that nickname.
''I am only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand''
Its not the cartoonist problem that some crazy muslims go violent.
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''I am only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand''
Its not the cartoonist problem that some crazy muslims go violent.
Cartoonist's only aim is to provoke Muslims to violence, they don't make cartoons/movies because they like Muhammad so very much. They managed to twist already twisted hadith just to insult Muslims and many Muslims fail to see that and fail to protest against that in civilized manner. Instead of enraging them with more cartoons, reasonable Muslim community should condemn violence and "provoke" Muslims to answer with peace.
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Cartoonist's only aim is to provoke Muslims to violence, they don't make cartoons/movies because they like Muhammad so very much. They managed to twist already twisted hadith just to insult Muslims and many Muslims fail to see that and fail to protest against that in civilized manner. Instead of enraging them with more cartoons, reasonable Muslim community should condemn violence and "provoke" Muslims to answer with peace.
Well said Shila
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Cartoonist's only aim is to provoke Muslims to violence, they don't make cartoons/movies because they like Muhammad so very much. They managed to twist already twisted hadith just to insult Muslims and many Muslims fail to see that and fail to protest against that in civilized manner. Instead of enraging them with more cartoons, reasonable Muslim community should condemn violence and "provoke" Muslims to answer with peace.
No. The muslims could just ignore the cartoonist and then there wont be any problems. Do you want to limit freedom of expression because some idiots would respond with violence?
Muslims dont have ANY right to respond with violence of any cartoon, whatsoever. They are behaving like a spoiled child who doesnt get what he wants.
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No. The muslims could just ignore the cartoonist and then there wont be any problems. Do you want to limit freedom of expression because some idiots would respond with violence?
Muslims dont have ANY right to respond with violence of any cartoon, whatsoever. They are behaving like a spoiled child who doesnt get what he wants.
True.
The 'crowd' and 'mob' has never shown great wisdom, thought or intelligence throughout history. They've always been controlled by emotion and chaotic dynamic patterns.
And also, Edip is NOT having intentions of instigating violence. He is not out there to insult the prophet (who is anyway dead and cannot be insulted). He is asking for POSITIVE cartoons, not ridiculing ones. That's hell of a difference. The difference lies in the intent. Edip's intention is good. I believe he aims to
- Lessen the level of taboo that surrounds the cartoons, and thereby, over time, disarm the sheepish, insane and emotional tendencies to misdirected and unjustified violence.
- By taking the edge off the cartoon taboo... he is taking away power from those who indeed use cartoons in a ridiculing way.
- Indirectly expose the madness of hadith and show the world that there is more to islam and quran than what people think. That is, to give people a chance to find out about real islam.
There will always be resistance to change. Always. It stems from fear. But change is life and life is change. No change means death. One can never advance and develop by resisting change. When you move forward to grow, you will have to move through your current states. It cannot be avoided. Avoiding cartoons will just mean that we accept the current situation, and accept that it should not change. Truth and the exposure of falsehood will not be realized through fear and avoidance of change.
Edip's work is commendable, no matter the details of his understanding. In my opinion there should be more people having a spirit like that of Edip's. He's doing a wonderful job in promoting the truth and exposing old, stagnant and mad things in religion.
Cheers
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True.
The 'crowd' and 'mob' has never shown great wisdom, thought or intelligence throughout history. They've always been controlled by emotion and chaotic dynamic patterns.
And also, Edip is NOT having intentions of instigating violence. He is not out there to insult the prophet (who is anyway dead and cannot be insulted). He is asking for POSITIVE cartoons, not ridiculing ones. That's hell of a difference. The difference lies in the intent. Edip's intention is good. I believe he aims to
- Lessen the level of taboo that surrounds the cartoons, and thereby, over time, disarm the sheepish, insane and emotional tendencies to misdirected and unjustified violence.
- By taking the edge off the cartoon taboo... he is taking away power from those who indeed use cartoons in a ridiculing way.
- Indirectly expose the madness of hadith and show the world that there is more to islam and quran than what people think. That is, to give people a chance to find out about real islam.
There will always be resistance to change. Always. It stems from fear. But change is life and life is change. No change means death. One can never advance and develop by resisting change. When you move forward to grow, you will have to move through your current states. It cannot be avoided. Avoiding cartoons will just mean that we accept the current situation, and accept that it should not change. Truth and the exposure of falsehood will not be realized through fear and avoidance of change.
Edip's work is commendable, no matter the details of his understanding. In my opinion there should be more people having a spirit like that of Edip's. He's doing a wonderful job in promoting the truth and exposing old, stagnant and mad things in religion.
Cheers
I agree with you.. and definately Edip deserves full respect for his works.. may god bless him.
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No. The muslims could just ignore the cartoonist and then there wont be any problems. Do you want to limit freedom of expression because some idiots would respond with violence?
Muslims dont have ANY right to respond with violence of any cartoon, whatsoever. They are behaving like a spoiled child who doesnt get what he wants.
Do you have a problem with comprehending my words? If so, please do tell, I'm willing to draw it for you.
By ignoring cartoonists you mean we should start making our own caricatures or movies? Do you understand what "ignoring" means? What you call "freedom of expression" is nothing but abuse of the very same privilege. I don't support any kind of violence, and what is suggested here, in the OP of the thread, is a match that can light a huge fire (of violence) and this time it would be "Muslims against Muslims".
Peace and God bless.
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True.
The 'crowd' and 'mob' has never shown great wisdom, thought or intelligence throughout history. They've always been controlled by emotion and chaotic dynamic patterns.
And also, Edip is NOT having intentions of instigating violence. He is not out there to insult the prophet (who is anyway dead and cannot be insulted). He is asking for POSITIVE cartoons, not ridiculing ones. That's hell of a difference. The difference lies in the intent. Edip's intention is good. I believe he aims to
- Lessen the level of taboo that surrounds the cartoons, and thereby, over time, disarm the sheepish, insane and emotional tendencies to misdirected and unjustified violence.
- By taking the edge off the cartoon taboo... he is taking away power from those who indeed use cartoons in a ridiculing way.
- Indirectly expose the madness of hadith and show the world that there is more to islam and quran than what people think. That is, to give people a chance to find out about real islam.
There will always be resistance to change. Always. It stems from fear. But change is life and life is change. No change means death. One can never advance and develop by resisting change. When you move forward to grow, you will have to move through your current states. It cannot be avoided. Avoiding cartoons will just mean that we accept the current situation, and accept that it should not change. Truth and the exposure of falsehood will not be realized through fear and avoidance of change.
Edip's work is commendable, no matter the details of his understanding. In my opinion there should be more people having a spirit like that of Edip's. He's doing a wonderful job in promoting the truth and exposing old, stagnant and mad things in religion.
Cheers
I'm not questioning Edip's intents, I already said that, but not one of those extremists in the "crowd" will think about what message he wanted to send. They believe any drawing of Muhammad is a crime against Islam and in their head they are the ones to punish the person who dared to blaspheme or anyone else who is in any way connected to the "blasphemer". We have seen what happened in the past when nonMuslims "insulted" Islam, I don't want to know what would happen if a Muslim do the same.
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Cartoonist's only aim is to provoke Muslims to violence, they don't make cartoons/movies because they like Muhammad so very much. They managed to twist already twisted hadith just to insult Muslims and many Muslims fail to see that and fail to protest against that in civilized manner. Instead of enraging them with more cartoons, reasonable Muslim community should condemn violence and "provoke" Muslims to answer with peace.
I'm not questioning Edip's intents, I already said that, but not one of those extremists in the "crowd" will think about what message he wanted to send. They believe any drawing of Muhammad is a crime against Islam and in their head they are the ones to punish the person who dared to blaspheme or anyone else who is in any way connected to the "blasphemer". We have seen what happened in the past when nonMuslims "insulted" Islam, I don't want to know what would happen if a Muslim do the same.
You're right.
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But this time we deal with another type of cartoonist. This time it is not intended as ridicule. I guess this is the first time ever. I'm sure it will not ONLY have negative consequences.
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The problem is two-fold, and it has become like the chicken and the egg... which comes first? Islamophobes spread misleading hate-propaganda, but they use all the madness that is for a fact in the hadith books in theory, and also used in practice by extremists. Both sides blame the other for both starting and furthering the fight. No-one will give in. It's a dead-lock.
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Muslim community is already condemning violence... in media.
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What happens if we keep yielding to and accepting everything? Then we should also accept stoning and the like. Like Edip pointed at... why should I accept that someone uses violence on me because of my beliefs? How would it be if I torched every mosque that has Muhammad's name right next to Allah's name hanging on the wall... perhaps it is a crime in my mind to keep partners with Allah. Violence should not be accepted. But keeping quiet is a way of accepting it. Having said this, I fully agree with you on the issue at hand. I agree with the problem and the inherent difficulty in deciding what to do in order to not make things worse. But things will not become better all by themselves. People don't have the right to use violence. I think that the stage Islam is in today, Christianity was in a couple of hundred years back... but things became more civilized.... but not from yielding to it, but by questioning things. Positive cartoons are a type of questioning... and it is not violent.
Anyhow, I understand what you are saying, and I agree to the problem you highlight.
Peace. -
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True.
The 'crowd' and 'mob' has never shown great wisdom, thought or intelligence throughout history. They've always been controlled by emotion and chaotic dynamic patterns.
And also, Edip is NOT having intentions of instigating violence. He is not out there to insult the prophet (who is anyway dead and cannot be insulted). He is asking for POSITIVE cartoons, not ridiculing ones. That's hell of a difference. The difference lies in the intent. Edip's intention is good. I believe he aims to
- Lessen the level of taboo that surrounds the cartoons, and thereby, over time, disarm the sheepish, insane and emotional tendencies to misdirected and unjustified violence.
- By taking the edge off the cartoon taboo... he is taking away power from those who indeed use cartoons in a ridiculing way.
- Indirectly expose the madness of hadith and show the world that there is more to islam and quran than what people think. That is, to give people a chance to find out about real islam.
There will always be resistance to change. Always. It stems from fear. But change is life and life is change. No change means death. One can never advance and develop by resisting change. When you move forward to grow, you will have to move through your current states. It cannot be avoided. Avoiding cartoons will just mean that we accept the current situation, and accept that it should not change. Truth and the exposure of falsehood will not be realized through fear and avoidance of change.
Edip's work is commendable, no matter the details of his understanding. In my opinion there should be more people having a spirit like that of Edip's. He's doing a wonderful job in promoting the truth and exposing old, stagnant and mad things in religion.
Cheers
Dear Zulf
You have perfectly summarized my intention, better than I could express it. Thank you.. Can you please send me the above message via email and let me know whether you mind if I qoute a portion of it all or of it? Whether should I use your real name or full name... I want to add this to the end of the article...
Peace,
Edip -
Zulf
And also, Edip is NOT having intentions of instigating violence. He is not out there to insult the prophet (who is anyway dead and cannot be insulted). He is asking for POSITIVE cartoons, not ridiculing ones. That's hell of a difference. The difference lies in the intent. Edip's intention is good.If your father and grand father could be insulted so can be Prophet, only the body vanishes and the mutation takes place. I think you have not read his following statement otherwise you would had not so unjustly defended his intentions.
while the right box should depict the negative images of Muhammad derived from descriptive or prescriptive hearsay statements narrated in Hadith and Sunna sources.
One who is drawing negative image even a child knows is from the stories and not from Quran because Quran doesnot carries such details, then to further highlight and pursue the Muslims for what Jews, Missionaries and others are doing, is it a GOOD intention? to divide further the Muslims and make them further angry are these good intentions?
Edip's intention is bad!
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Zulf
If your father and grand father could be insulted so can be Prophet, only the body vanishes and the mutation takes place. I think you have not read his following statement otherwise you would had not so unjustly defended his intentions.Dear Raaajah,
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What do you mean "if my father and grand father could be insulted"?
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If dead people can hear and perceive what's going on in this world, who says that they, after leaving this world, would still be at this relatively low level of getting emotional and hurt? Wouldn't they be beyond that? Wouldn't they be at a more advanced and higher spiritual level? Or are we projecting our own emotions on them?
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Yeah, I didn't pay much attention to that line which you highlighted, but it still goes with the agenda I proposed, namely telling the truth of where-from the sick things in traditional Islam (Sunnism etc) come.
One who is drawing negative image even a child knows is from the stories and not from Quran because Quran doesnot carries such details, then to further highlight and pursue the Muslims for what Jews, Missionaries and others are doing, is it a GOOD intention? to divide further the Muslims and make them further angry are these good intentions?
Edip's intention is bad!
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Nope and no. That's not the ground reality as per my own experienceForget about children; even adults don't know that such stories that the negative images are based on, are from hadith and not the quran. The point to be highlighted is that hadith and quran is not two parts of that which should be called islam in arabic. I know myself that common moderate people many times cannot tell what is from hadith, what is considered sunna and what is written in the quran. They just follow random things they hear from other people, often out of more or less fear. There is a very low quranic literacy, unfortunately. Traditional Muslims don't know these things, and they mix'em all up. And then the islamophobes are equally, or more, clueless and only pick up the nasty stuff, whether correct or false. The islamophobes are served juicy stuff on a silver plate, and then the decent Muslims get a bad image. How can this be allowed to continue? Is this fair? No it's not.
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We have to see clearly what's going on here. Are we to sugar-coat and give excuses for what traditional Islam is promoting, or are we to promote what the quran is saying? You cannot do both! The negetive half of the cartoon would only serve the purpose to expose the FALSE things that people attribute to Allah (along side the positive cartoon). The point is to show the difference, which is the reality. How can this be bad? Should we be more protective of what people falsely invent in the name of Allah, or should we be promoting the truth as given by Allah? This is what it is all about. Is Allah's message more important or is the fairy tales of the "Ummah" and the self proclaimed Islamic priests more important?
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If it is so important to not make people angry... then the whole concept of Quran-alone should be scrapped and not discussed, because Quran-Alone is making Muslims much more angry than the tenets of Christianity and Hinduism. It's not a point of systems of belief. It's all about that people feel that their own identity is questioned and attacked. Is Quran-alone worse than Christianity and Hinduism?... Quran-alone is based on the quran for god's sake! If Quran-alone isn't worse than Christianity and Hinduism, then why does it enrage Muslims so much more than Christianity and Hinduism do? Just think about it.
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Edip, trying to do his best in communicating the message of the quran.. cannot be considered having bad intentions. How could it? He's not advocating the persecution of anyone, or ridiculing, or punishment. He just wants to set the record straight. Then anyone can follow whatever they want. No compulsion. Again, should we pamper and suck up to those who follow that which Allah has not sanctioned, or should we tell about how things really are? Oil and water.
Peace!
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Dear Raaajah,
- What do you mean "if my father and grand father could be insulted"?
I know it is hard to understand for the people who have closed their eyes and ears well let us just see
Zulf Your father was a Bastard! a womanizer and pedophile. What will be your reaction to this statement
In the movie they several times call the Prophet that and I do not agree, I am angry I really am angry along with billions of Muslims, because even if some one says that to my own grand father even though his body is not here. I am still angry because that is an allegation which he cannot defend I am the one who will defend it by Pen, by protest. when some one calls the Prophet Bastard he very well knows that he can bring no harm to the prophet he is just propmting the Muslims for violence.
Similarly Edip is doing that by starting cartoonist campaign.
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I know it is hard to understand for the people who have closed their eyes and ears well let us just see
Zulf Your father was a Bastard! do you agree?
First of all, there is an important difference between idiots insulting someone else or their relatives, and insulting to God.
God himself does not want idiots to defend (more accurately, pretend to defend) God against other idiots in the mud.. God wants intelligent people to leave the presence of lowly people. That is it. None can harm God nor can harm dead people.
But, when an idiot insults another living human being, it is another story. It is up to the insulted human being to ignore the idiot or file law suit against the above-mentioned idiot, if he is harmed financially or personally as the direct consequence of such an insult.
My recommendation to Zulf is this Please ignore idiots of all colors and religions, and let them drawn in the filth coming from their mouth.
Peace,
Edip -
We have to see clearly what's going on here. Are we to sugar-coat and give excuses for what traditional Islam is promoting, or are we to promote what the quran is saying? You cannot do both! The negetive half of the cartoon would only serve the purpose to expose the FALSE things that people attribute to Allah (along side the positive cartoon). The point is to show the difference, which is the reality. How can this be bad? Should we be more protective of what people falsely invent in the name of Allah, or should we be promoting the truth as given by Allah? This is what it is all about. Is Allah's message more important or is the fairy tales of the "Ummah" and the self proclaimed Islamic priests more important?
Now let us take your point # 5
The purpose of negative half you have mentioned can be achieved only through
MOCKING prophet through cartoons the way Edip wants, try to understand there are many better better ways. This person is asking for Negative images of Prophet, the same images which have taken lives of more than 100 people till now and billions of collateral damage. To EDIP to care about any one's sentiments is of no worth as I have quoted him,
Allah's message is more important off course but not the way EDIP wants it by mocking Prophet peace be upon him in the name of Quran alone and taking advantage of "INNOCENCE OF MUSLIMS"