Debating a Salafi
-
Is there any chance of a live prime time TV debate between Edip and Yusuf Estes? !
Oh my goodness...I would pay to see that. Really.
-
Salaam
It is amazing to see such praises for the distant caliph of false prophet Rashad Khalifa, the best that can be said about his personality "an intelligent person, with arrogance and jealousy"
What did he said new? what did he added? same bunch of people who are against Hadith and against Praise for prophet were clapping for him here.for arrogance read and watch his debates and for jealousy you can read material against Harun Yahya.
Debate with ayman on 19 is interesting read too.and
Maha wrote about Zakir Naik
It also involves carefully avoiding debate with any serious debaters that oppose him, like Sam Shamoun or Ali Sina.Ali Sina rotfl
You might not agree with Zakir Naik but calling Ali Sina a serious debater is itself non seriousness
and sam Shamoun? what about him...have you seen the debate between his good friend Dr.WilliAM cAMPBELL AND zAKIR? What else can he add
PRAISE BE TO MUHAMMAD THE RASUL AND SERVANT OF ALLAH THE ALMIGHTY
-
lol...His conclusion (I didn't see that video) sounds very illogical
Wikipedia claims he is one of the advisers of the Salafi doctrine.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakir_NaikIf you carefully listen to his bad english, you will realize that he is indeed a salafi financed by salafies in Saudi Arabia . But his standard answer is that he is just a "muslim" and that there are no "sects" in islam.. He says that for 3 reasons
- It sounds good
- It makes mainstream Sunnis and sufis to listen to him and make non-Muslims think that he is speaking on behalf of "authentic islam"
- Salafi is a negative term among non-salafis.
Pece
-
If you carefully listen to his bad english, you will realize that he is indeed a salafi financed by salafies in Saudi Arabia . But his standard answer is that he is just a "muslim" and that there are no "sects" in islam.. He says that for 3 reasons
- It sounds good
- It makes mainstream Sunnis and sufis to listen to him and make non-Muslims think that he is speaking on behalf of "authentic islam"
- Salafi is a negative term among non-salafis.
Pece
Aren't Salafis the ones who wear their pants above the ankle so that they don't drag the ground?
-
^Yeah, they're the hopeless bunch that think if you're a man, whatever is below your ankle is "in the hellfire" (so basically just the part that passes the ankles is in the fire...rotfl) and if you're a woman, it's vice versa. You can't show your ankles, otherwise...I dunno, your ankles will be in the fire. Who knows - don't remember reading an exact punishment for that, but they could always make up and try justifying one. After all, it deals with women.
Lol @ Zakir's fatwa on pig meat. It's so hilarious I dedicated 5 minutes of my time lol'ing to it, and more lol @ Estes being picked to talk since he appears as a "cozy grandpa". So true. This guy's hopeless as one said. You know someone is with a beard that unkempt and long, and saying Muhammad's name 20 times every 5 minutes while saying Noah's, Abraham's, Isaac's, and Joseph's name...0 times. Whatever happened to viewing the prophets and messengers as equal.
Raaajah, Khalifa hasn't been mentioned once in the topic. Also no one comes close to praising this guy as the mainstream Muslims basically say things that pretty much deify Muhammad. You'll also notice Khalifa never claimed to bring anything new. He did a good job getting Muslims with a brain to only accept Quran (although much of his Quranic interpretation seemed traditional). Other than the 19 thing which was mainly trying to get the Muslim to further think the Quran was the only divine thing in Islam (not that all the arguments against the sunnah/hadith weren't enough), that's it.
I agree with all replies to my posts since my last visit.
-Edit- On an unrelated note I watched The Stoning of Soraya M. the other night (. It's so messed up (the practice of stoning) and I cried in areas. The main bad guy (the husband, who falsely accused his wife of adultery just so he doesn't have to spend on her anymore) in the film I'd soccer-kick in the balls. They literally declared simply talking nicely to and hand-touching a man who wasn't the husband as punishable by this pagan shit (if you're concerned of spoilers, the trailer would've revealed that much). Here's the box art
http//s017.radikal.ru/i413/1206/3e/214c4fbbf886.jpg
It's torrent-able so if anyone wants to see how like dogs Sunni/Shiite Muslims in the Middle East can be, you can see it. There are even torrents of it in HD.
-
Meteora...I bet he didn't even have the required witnesses, did he? When I pointed that out to my husband in the Qur'an, he suddenly stopped spouting off about stoning for adultery. Maybe he thought men could just walk in there and not have to take any responsibility...nope...a man has to take an oath that he is not lying.
244 And those who accuse the independent females, then they do not
bring forth four witnesses, you shall lash them with eighty lashes,
and do not accept their testimony ever; and those are the wicked.246 And those who accuse their spouses, but they have no witnesses
except for themselves, then the testimony of one of them is to be
equivalent to that of four witnesses if it is sworn by God that he is
being truthful.247 And the fifth shall be the curse of God upon him if he is of the
liars.248 And the punishment will be averted from her if she bears witness
four times by God that he is of the liars.
249 And the fifth shall be the curse of God upon her if he is speaking
the truth.Peace,
Amina
-
Meteora
Raaajah, Khalifa hasn't been mentioned once in the topic. Also no one comes close to praising this guy as the mainstream Muslims basically say things that pretty much deify Muhammad. You'll also notice Khalifa never claimed to bring anything new. He did a good job getting Muslims with a brain to only accept Quran (although much of his Quranic interpretation seemed traditional). Other than the 19 thing which was mainly trying to get the Muslim to further think the Quran was the only divine thing in Islam (not that all the arguments against the sunnah/hadith weren't enough), that's it.
You contradict your own statement,
He introduced system of 19 by deleting Ayats of Quran, if that was not new than hail to you!
He did a good job by starting deleting Quranic Ayats to fit his 19 theory.Praise be to Muhammad Rasul and Servant of Allah!
Lol @ Zakir's fatwa on pig meat. It's so hilarious I dedicated 5 minutes of my time lol'ing to it,
May be you can come up with a better reasons for not eating PIG if Yes I would like to hear or may be you chose the easy way by upright denying such a thing in Quran as some of the modern day self proclaimed scholars of internet. What ever it may be here is what I said is
You might not agree with Zakir Naik but calling Ali Sina a serious debater is itself non seriousness
-
-Edit- On an unrelated note I watched The Stoning of Soraya M. the other night (. It's so messed up (the practice of stoning) and I cried in areas. The main bad guy (the husband, who falsely accused his wife of adultery just so he doesn't have to spend on her anymore) in the film I'd soccer-kick in the balls. They literally declared simply talking nicely to and hand-touching a man who wasn't the husband as punishable by this pagan shit (if you're concerned of spoilers, the trailer would've revealed that much). Here's the box art
http//s017.radikal.ru/i413/1206/3e/214c4fbbf886.jpg
It's torrent-able so if anyone wants to see how like dogs Sunni/Shiite Muslims in the Middle East can be, you can see it. There are even torrents of it in HD.
I've seen this movie, it's a perfect example how people abuse shariah law and personalize it to suit their wicked desires. I think this is the only movie I've ever seen that made me cry. I'd like to show it to all people who believe that punishment for adultery in Islam is stoning to death and later ask them if they truly believe such horror is OK in God's s.w.t. eyes.
-
Hopeless Sunni's, Shiites and Salafi's/Wahabi's will tell you so. They're the exception though. I'm betting that even a small percent of them, after actually watching the movie will somewhat deny it. Then all you need is their godly scholar to chat them up again and bam, back to blind-following the religion 100%. It's rare that an adherent to religions like these ever put their mind and reason first. We're not like that - we have free minds, and hence the site name.
I'll reply to the other posts later. Gotta go.
-
Meteora
You contradict your own statement,
He introduced system of 19 by deleting Ayats of Quran, if that was not new than hail to you!
He did a good job by starting deleting Quranic Ayats to fit his 19 theory.Praise be to Muhammad Rasul and Servant of Allah!
May be you can come up with a better reasons for not eating PIG if Yes I would like to hear or may be you chose the easy way by upright denying such a thing in Quran as some of the modern day self proclaimed scholars of internet. What ever it may be here is what I said is
Were those (2) ayats not there, it would make no difference concerning what we believe and how we carry out our lives. What was in it can be pretty much found elsewhere throughout the Quran. Why is it that people make a big deal out of two tiny verses among more than 6,000 others, when they should be more focused on denouncing the countless hadiths that actually ridicule Mohamed and debase Islam like no other religion, and you're praising Mohamed now? hypno
Also I was laughing at his fatwa 'cause it sounded funny, not because it was entirely wrong, but he'd say the whole of pig is forbidden, when I'm pretty sure the Qur'an says just the meat of it is. For example thinking non-kosher marshmellows are forbidden is silly.
-
Were those (2) ayats not there, it would make no difference concerning what we believe and how we carry out our lives. What was in it can be pretty much found elsewhere throughout the Quran. Why is it that people make a big deal out of two tiny verses among more than 6,000 others,
hypno
-
No. Yousef Estes Just like zakir naik don't debate serious debaters like Edip. That would make them loose "customers" .
I firmly believe that... Not because I am smarter than them nor because I more fluent than them. Because by God's blessing I have discovered the message of monotheism... It is a powerful message. A liberating, unifying, enlightening, humbling, empowering and nourishing both the minds and hearts...
I would be glad to meet any of these two Sunni scholars... These names have been suggested numerous times by people... But, they have not responded to my invitation, so far. What about starting an Internet campaign, petition to invite us for such a debate? I think it might be very useful for the masses to hear the both sides at the same time and place.
Peace,
Edip -
Exactly,
it would be a whole new thing, to have an islam-Islam debate, especially with folks like Zakir Naik and Yusuf Estes. It would be much more controversial, potent and thought-provoking, than the usual, "easy bait" discussions that Zakir Naik usually engages in. I've not seen so much from him, but I've seen him debate some old christian guy, Campbell, and that other guy, Shankar, and I admit Naik really came across as very logical and solid compared to them. But that's possibly very much due to his memorization of verse numbers and style of speaking. It seems he wins people over just by showing how many verse numbers he knows by heart. Yusuf Estes has continued his priesthood in his new religion. Same thing, new label. Flashy package, same old contents. His unique selling point is his coming from Christianity, being won over to Islam, and also speaking "clean" English. Such people have a very high status in e.g. the countries of the Sub-Continent.A debate between Yuksel and Naik/Estes, would really take things to a higher level. It would suddenly get serious. The common debates like that of Naik vs Campbell, are not really debates. They are just cosy, self-indulgent, feel-good shows that the Muslim commoner watches to feel good about their own Religion. It's just about point-picking in favor of their own team. And the opponent is not really a threat to start with, so there's no risk. This is why Estes or Naik have not responded to invitations to debate with Yuksel. It would be too difficult, serious and risky for them. And it's not what their TV-stations or audience/customers want anyway. The commoner wants a rigged fight, a night at the opera, with a predetermined and harmless outcome, so they can leave the TV afterwards having a nice cup of tea, with no increase in pulse or blood pressure, feeling happy about how great and supreme their Religion is.... continuing their waking sleep.
Peace
-
Were those (2) ayats not there, it would make no difference concerning what we believe and how we carry out our lives. What was in it can be pretty much found elsewhere throughout the Quran. Why is it that people make a big deal out of two tiny verses among more than 6,000 others, when they should be more focused on denouncing the countless hadiths that actually ridicule Mohamed and debase Islam like no other religion, and you're praising Mohamed now?
Further engaging with a person who thinks that deleting anything for personal agenda or whatsoever reason from Quran is a no big deal is just WASTAGE of time. To yours is Yours!
However if you claim you are not a Muslim and do not believe in the Quran then you can be answered as non believer.Praise be to Muhammad Rasul and Servant of Allah!
-
I firmly believe that... Not because I am smarter than them nor because I more fluent than them. Because by God's blessing I have discovered the message of monotheism... It is a powerful message. A liberating, unifying, enlightening, humbling, empowering and nourishing both the minds and hearts...
Waiting for the time when like your mentor RK you will announce prophet hood, the acceleration you have chosen shows you will surpass you mentor and may announce for yourself some thing superieor than your mentor.
may Allah guide us to true path