Debating a Salafi
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Meteora
You contradict your own statement,
He introduced system of 19 by deleting Ayats of Quran, if that was not new than hail to you!
He did a good job by starting deleting Quranic Ayats to fit his 19 theory.Praise be to Muhammad Rasul and Servant of Allah!
May be you can come up with a better reasons for not eating PIG if Yes I would like to hear or may be you chose the easy way by upright denying such a thing in Quran as some of the modern day self proclaimed scholars of internet. What ever it may be here is what I said is
Were those (2) ayats not there, it would make no difference concerning what we believe and how we carry out our lives. What was in it can be pretty much found elsewhere throughout the Quran. Why is it that people make a big deal out of two tiny verses among more than 6,000 others, when they should be more focused on denouncing the countless hadiths that actually ridicule Mohamed and debase Islam like no other religion, and you're praising Mohamed now? hypno
Also I was laughing at his fatwa 'cause it sounded funny, not because it was entirely wrong, but he'd say the whole of pig is forbidden, when I'm pretty sure the Qur'an says just the meat of it is. For example thinking non-kosher marshmellows are forbidden is silly.
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Were those (2) ayats not there, it would make no difference concerning what we believe and how we carry out our lives. What was in it can be pretty much found elsewhere throughout the Quran. Why is it that people make a big deal out of two tiny verses among more than 6,000 others,
hypno
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No. Yousef Estes Just like zakir naik don't debate serious debaters like Edip. That would make them loose "customers" .
I firmly believe that... Not because I am smarter than them nor because I more fluent than them. Because by God's blessing I have discovered the message of monotheism... It is a powerful message. A liberating, unifying, enlightening, humbling, empowering and nourishing both the minds and hearts...
I would be glad to meet any of these two Sunni scholars... These names have been suggested numerous times by people... But, they have not responded to my invitation, so far. What about starting an Internet campaign, petition to invite us for such a debate? I think it might be very useful for the masses to hear the both sides at the same time and place.
Peace,
Edip -
Exactly,
it would be a whole new thing, to have an islam-Islam debate, especially with folks like Zakir Naik and Yusuf Estes. It would be much more controversial, potent and thought-provoking, than the usual, "easy bait" discussions that Zakir Naik usually engages in. I've not seen so much from him, but I've seen him debate some old christian guy, Campbell, and that other guy, Shankar, and I admit Naik really came across as very logical and solid compared to them. But that's possibly very much due to his memorization of verse numbers and style of speaking. It seems he wins people over just by showing how many verse numbers he knows by heart. Yusuf Estes has continued his priesthood in his new religion. Same thing, new label. Flashy package, same old contents. His unique selling point is his coming from Christianity, being won over to Islam, and also speaking "clean" English. Such people have a very high status in e.g. the countries of the Sub-Continent.A debate between Yuksel and Naik/Estes, would really take things to a higher level. It would suddenly get serious. The common debates like that of Naik vs Campbell, are not really debates. They are just cosy, self-indulgent, feel-good shows that the Muslim commoner watches to feel good about their own Religion. It's just about point-picking in favor of their own team. And the opponent is not really a threat to start with, so there's no risk. This is why Estes or Naik have not responded to invitations to debate with Yuksel. It would be too difficult, serious and risky for them. And it's not what their TV-stations or audience/customers want anyway. The commoner wants a rigged fight, a night at the opera, with a predetermined and harmless outcome, so they can leave the TV afterwards having a nice cup of tea, with no increase in pulse or blood pressure, feeling happy about how great and supreme their Religion is.... continuing their waking sleep.
Peace
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Were those (2) ayats not there, it would make no difference concerning what we believe and how we carry out our lives. What was in it can be pretty much found elsewhere throughout the Quran. Why is it that people make a big deal out of two tiny verses among more than 6,000 others, when they should be more focused on denouncing the countless hadiths that actually ridicule Mohamed and debase Islam like no other religion, and you're praising Mohamed now?
Further engaging with a person who thinks that deleting anything for personal agenda or whatsoever reason from Quran is a no big deal is just WASTAGE of time. To yours is Yours!
However if you claim you are not a Muslim and do not believe in the Quran then you can be answered as non believer.Praise be to Muhammad Rasul and Servant of Allah!
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I firmly believe that... Not because I am smarter than them nor because I more fluent than them. Because by God's blessing I have discovered the message of monotheism... It is a powerful message. A liberating, unifying, enlightening, humbling, empowering and nourishing both the minds and hearts...
Waiting for the time when like your mentor RK you will announce prophet hood, the acceleration you have chosen shows you will surpass you mentor and may announce for yourself some thing superieor than your mentor.
may Allah guide us to true path
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I firmly believe that... Not because I am smarter than them nor because I more fluent than them. Because by God's blessing I have discovered the message of monotheism... It is a powerful message. A liberating, unifying, enlightening, humbling, empowering and nourishing both the minds and hearts...I would be glad to meet any of these two Sunni scholars... These names have been suggested numerous times by people... But, they have not responded to my invitation, so far. What about starting an Internet campaign, petition to invite us for such a debate? I think it might be very useful for the masses to hear the both sides at the same time and place.
Peace,
EdipEdip,
Salaam. Your post brought tears to my eyes...especially right now in the midst of the turmoil over a movie. I went for a walk yesterday (I still wear hijab and live in the U.S.) and I could tell that so many people were uncomfortable around me...they probably think I am out for blood right now. I want to scream so badly "They are not practicing the true Islam!! What they are doing is NOT okay!"
I wish people could see what we talk about here...how we shatter so many disbeliefs and false teachings here. I have learned so much in the month or two since joining.
Please keep debating the scholars and imams...the truth needs to be told!
Amina
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Further engaging with a person who thinks that deleting anything for personal agenda or whatsoever reason from Quran is a no big deal is just WASTAGE of time. To yours is Yours!
However if you claim you are not a Muslim and do not believe in the Quran then you can be answered as non believer.Praise be to Muhammad Rasul and Servant of Allah!
First, drop the hate, then go back and read.
I did not say it wasn't a big deal. I said, and I'll quote myself this time, "you're MAKING a big deal out of it WHILE not complaining about 3-4x the length of the Qur'an itself, of completely nonsensical bullshit deriding the prophet (that you praise the same way a pagan Muslim does) and distorting the truth like hell; this is not including the "tafsir" books attempting to define the Qur'an, not that the hadith/sunna doesn't already try to do that somewhat".
Of course it's a big deal, but regarding our actions, mindset, and our life in general, it does not (and would not) change anything (just in case you still aren't able to decipher this, this does NOT mean I don't believe in those 2 verses; I do. Look at a free-minder, and then look at an orthodox mainstream Muslim. Big, BIG difference. That was my point. If you missed that (and apparently you still do), that's your prerogative.
Also was wanting to say this, but why would someone "pay to see" a debate between Yuksel and Estes? Estes tries his best to follow an established semitic religion, which, judging by how that occurs (looks at Judaism and Christianity) is going to be false and pagan-like. I've also seen Estes (as I said in a post before in here) simply addressing the Quran-alone belief, not even debating anyone per se, and he got mad as hell. Estes would be utterly destroyed mainly since he never uses his brain with regards to religion while Yuksel's pretty much always on, just like our's (vast majority of us) are.
Here's one of my posts in this thread about Estes
Excellent observation. Some years back I began to think the same. As I was reading the part bolded, Yusuf Estes came to mind. I used to listen to his nonsensical lectures online, then I listened to a "khutba" he gave at a local mosque around where I live. All his lectures to non-Muslims, were generally free of hate, arrogance, not as stupid, and somewhat made you want to listen. The khutba he gave opposing Quran-aloners was lolworthy. His thesis basically was that Quran-aloners are "shayaateens" (devils) since they just believe in Allah like the Devil does, and are not actually "practicing" the religion, just as the Devil doesn't either. To actually believe in Allah AND do that which Allah wants, you have to follow the Quran and the Sunnah. Lol.
No really, you can't hate me for laughing there considering what the Sunnah actually commands you to do.
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Waiting for the time when like your mentor RK you will announce prophet hood, the acceleration you have chosen shows you will surpass you mentor and may announce for yourself some thing superieor than your mentor.
may Allah guide us to true path
When will yo? stop hating, insulting and ridiculing people you disagree with?
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I was lol'ing at that part earlier. Edip claiming prophethood later, wtf.
Am I the only one who found it strange RK was brought up? I think we should read the topic title. It's regarding Salafiism and how it's like to debate with one (horrendous). How RK and 19 has anything to do with that, please tell.
Then as I try to point out how not accepting two verses (that mention no rules, laws or regulations or any facts that can't already be found elsewhere in the Qur'an) is nowhere near as awful as believing in the Sunnah, I am an RK follower by default. Strange; I accept 9128 + 129 and am against the 19 issue.
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Nice debate Brother Edip!!!
Wish to see more debates like this with traditional Muslim scholars like this guy ( Zakir Naik) who is justifying the barbaric practices of traditional islam based on hadith and sunnah using ridiculous logic.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRl5c-xPVA0
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzc_jhaWxw0
Peace
Abdullah
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Not to mention stoning for adultery. Bukhari, "Muslim", Abu-Dawood and Al-Tabari, i.e. Persian haters of the prophet (and just Arabs in general) have scholars like Zakir and Estes by the balls. They're doing exactly what those Persians in the 9th century wanted them to do, all of this being against the true (non-fictional) prophet of Islam in every way.