Arab author claims that 4:34 really means "BEAT THEM'
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Peace Ash Shuura, all
We cannot see the forest through the trees. If Verse 434 is addressing us to beat our wives then what would 2231 be asking us?
And if you have divorced the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then either you remain together equitably, or part ways equitably. And do not reconcile with them so you can harm them out of animosity; whoever does so is doing wickedness to his soul; and do not take God?s revelations lightly.And remember God?s blessings towards you, and what was sent down to you of the Scripture and the wisdom, He warns you with it. And be aware of God and know that God is Knowledgeable in all things. (2231)
Dictionary.com definitions
Equitably
- Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. See Synonyms at fair.
Animosity
- Bitter hostility or open enmity; active hatred.
- A hostile feeling or act. See Synonyms at enmity.
pz
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Salam all,
I was just yesterday sitting over this vers quite a long time thinking it over again and again. Now I open free-minds. and find this debate here... !
As far as I know the word "dharab" really means hit, beat. And in all translations I found the word was translated like this.
According to H. Wehr dharab is to beat hit, shoot, bombard, ......I found nothing like "seperate".
The free-minds. translations for dharab "seperated" would be in arabic "fassl", no?We also have to see the word "nushus". They are to beat when they commited "nushus". Now what is "nushus"?
According to H. Wehr it is Antipathie, refractoriness,rebelliosness, offend against marital duties (Sex), revolting, resistingAll this confuses me a lot. Are men said from God to beat their wifes? I can`t believe it.
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Salaamun alaikum,
Linguistics aside, can we look at CONTEXT? 4/35 is talking about terms of SEPERATION. Where did this seperation come from if adribuhunna in 4/34 didnt refer to it ?
Some Arab Christians have shown thier hatred in various chatrooms. I woudlnt accept any information from them.
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Peace,
Wakas, men also nushus are they beat? If you continue to review all the uses of this word and dharaba it will clear up a lot of things including "beat them" and the miracle of hitting a rock and hitting the sea. It requires some pondering for sure. We should remember that the God is teaching us how He uses these words, no guessing and no switching back and forwards between meanings.
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Dear All,
The english "separate" happens to be the perfect multiple meaning verb for the multiple meaning arabic verb "DaRaBa".
In the quran this verb is used as follows
Arabic usage "to explain/to site an example"
English separate -> disentangle -> make clear -> explainArabic usage "to travel"
English
separate -> go away -> depart -> travelArabic usage "to hit"
separate -> intersect -> join/cross -> touch -> hit.The word intersect can mean to divide or join depending on the context, very similiar to daraba.
Let the context determine what 434 means.
For example are you being told "what to hit" (head, back) and "what to hit with" (your shoe, hand).
Peace.
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peace All,
Nice comments brother Burhan.
This topic has been discussed in depth previously. Whoever is interested in this topic should read the previous stuff.
The possible meanings of Daad-Ra-Ba are extensive, and include 'separate' in the QD and Lane.
Wakas
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Salam all of you,
What is QD? and is Lane found online?
I looked up my fat (german) dictionary again and found "dh-r-b" with the preposition "`an" means "to turn away" .... OH; HERE IT IS...
I found it seperate. I was really wondering why it is mentioned in your books but not in mine....
oopsNow I`m wondering why all translations translate it with to beat,hit. I looked at seven (german) translations all of them translate with to beat, some add "a soft hit" or "without degrading her" ...
By the way this site mentioned above faithfreedom.org is really an ugly one!
Salam idea
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peace All,
Peace wakas,
Nice comments brother Burhan.
This topic has been discussed in depth previously. Whoever is interested in this topic should read the previous stuff.
see http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=877
The possible meanings of Daad-Ra-Ba are extensive, and include 'separate' in the QD and Lane.
Wakas
Could you copy what QD and Lane say proving daraba = separate ?
Thanks
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peace All,
What is QD? and is Lane found online?
QD = Dictionary of Quran
Lane is not found online (as far as I'm aware).
The following project aims to counteract lack of sources for most people.
Could you copy what QD and Lane say proving daraba = separate ?
I never said daraba = separate. This is one of its meanings and I believe brother Burhan did a nice job linking the concepts to this core.
= Daad-Ra-Ba
occurrences
http//www.irreduciblefifth.force9.co.uk/burhan/b.x.262.htm
QD
to heal, strike, propound as an example, put forth a parable, go, make a journey, travel, mix, avoid, take away, put a cover, shut, mention, state, propound, set forth, compare, liken, seek a way, march own, set, impose, prevent, fight, traffic with anyone's property for a share in the profit, leave for sake, take away thing (with 'an).
Depressed ground, hard ground in a plain, sandy valley, commissioner as he has to travel much.
Kind manner, lean, thin, similar, alike, the act of striking, a blow, going from place to place, vicissitude of life, affliction especially that which relates to one's person, as disease, death, degradation is common and general suffering.Lane
beat, struck, smote, hit, the making a thing fall upon another thing, discipline/train, to cast forth, threw or flung it, seal/stamp, veil/curtain/cover/barrier, to point or make a sign, prohibit/hinder/prevent/witheld/restrain, collision, corrupted/disordered/disturbance/unsettled/confused, turn away, avoid, shun, fashion/mould/adapt, mention or set forth (e.g. a parable/example), explain, make a way, multiplying, go/travel, went away, it was or became long, excite/incite/urge/instigate, contend, dispose/accommodate, retract/digression/transition, to silence, tremble/shiver, share/portion.
Location where something is struck, wool or goat's hair separated or plucked or beaten with a mallet, sword, tent-peg, mallet.Some examples from Concordance of Quran
Wakas
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Could you please provide any verses that tell men are more intelligent than women drfazl?
Peace FK,
There is no verse in the Qur'an that tells men are more intelligent than women. We can see this with its balanced tone...
The submitting men, the submitting women, the believing men, the believing women, the obedient men, the obedient women, the truthful men, the truthful women, the steadfast men, the steadfast women, the reverent men, the reverent women, the charitable men, the charitable women, the fasting men, the fasting women, the chaste men, the chaste women, and the men who commemorate GOD frequently, and the commemorating women; GOD has prepared for them forgiveness and a great recompense.
The believing men and women are allies of one another. They advocate righteousness and forbid evil, they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey GOD and His messenger. These will be showered by GOD's mercy. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
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Please don't forget the next verse 435, there is a reason Mr ArabChristian has ignored it.
And if you fear a split between them, then send a judge from his family and a judge from hers. If they want to reconcile, then God will bring them together. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.
Peace.
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Man Is A Degree Above Women
Man Equals Two Women" Man " is a shade above in degree in Wisdom over women. Use your Wisdom to Beat your wives' Ignorance.
Fear Allah!Could you please provide any verses that tell men are more intelligent than women drfazl?
002228
But men have a degree over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.002282
And get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.Please reach with your wisdom to the above verses and deliver your understanding. I want you to explain also this why Allah has not chosen messengers among women.
drfazl
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Peace be upon you,
I can't believe you hold the understanding that men are better than women in understanding, testimony and overall aspects. However, I'd be very interested in finding out what others have to say about this.
Since this thread is "hidden" here, I'll try and post a new one on the main cateogry and see the responses.
To answer your question, though I can't go into God's thinking, this is my assumption from what I've heard/read....
- The pharoh of Egypt had several wives (some were his own biological daughters) and in his narrow mind women were inferior to men. This was the reason that if studied ancient Egypt you'll see very few/no women as leaders. When Moses went to the Pharoh to give God's message, he ridiculded Moses and said who do you believe me or this loley one who can hardly speak. Thus, in his mind the fact that Moses had a speech impediment made Moses "inferior" to him. Imagine a woman walking up to the pharoh and saying what Moses did - he would've punished that woman severly.
However, I've got a question for you drfazl
I am not sure if you have any children. But lets assume you have a son and a daughter. Would you see your daughter being inferior to your son?
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Mustering Public Opinion
Against The Verseshttp//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2702
The following is based on the thread from the above linkI can't believe you hold the understanding that men are better than women
It is not me but Allah's Book says so. And yet you cannot believe. I have given the quotes from the Book, if you are interested in the verses of it. So far you have not cared to submit to the ayats but interested in only chatting outside of the Book of Allah. Your position is to muster public opinion over allah's dictum. Fine! I mistook you that you will discuss quran. Nothing of that sort I find with you. Here is a sample of what you said
To answer your question, though I can't go into God's thinking, this is my assumption from what I've heard/read....
You cannot ponder yourself in the Way God has asked you to recite and rehearse, but assume and follow the hearsays. I made a mistake in assuming you will speak of the BOOK. I am sorry.
- The pharoh of Egypt had several wives (some were his own biological daughters) and in his narrow mind women were inferior to men.
Nothing to do with Quran. This is Free Minds on Islam / comments on the Quran. Worse you talk about the men written history. It is mistake I took you seriously and started quoting the ayats which you threw behind your back.
However, I've got a question for you drfazl
I am not sure if you have any children. But lets assume you have a son and a daughter. Would you see your daughter being inferior to your son?Did I ever say women are inferior?
Men are a grade above women is what Allah says. It is not me. And I see that is true. Quran is held true over your sentimantal falsehoodson and daughter ... son is a grade above daughter
wife and husband ... male is a degree above
mother and father ... father is a shade above mother.Will you atleast now ponder over the ayats and comeback to -> Questions/Comments on the Quran, what this section of the forum is intended for ? Instead of non quranic chat FK?
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2702
Now answer the thread I am leading you to please.. If you do not wish to..I appreciate your position here
I think it'd be best if I don't further communicate with you because it doesn't seem to me you have the the capability to understand what I am trying to communicate here.
That is OK with me. It is your right to assume in your humble opinion I have no capability to understand your hearsays. But I have to remind once again this is Question / Comments on Quran forum. I think FK, you have the capability to understand. I apologise to Allah if I had posted anything wrong to whoever it may be of concern.
drfazl
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Peace wakas, all
Lane
beat, struck, smote, hit, the making a thing fall upon another thing, discipline/train, to cast forth, threw or flung it, seal/stamp, veil/curtain/cover/barrier, to point or make a sign, prohibit/hinder/prevent/witheld/restrain, collision, corrupted/disordered/disturbance/unsettled/confused, turn away, avoid, shun, fashion/mould/adapt, mention or set forth (e.g. a parable/example), explain, make a way, multiplying, go/travel, went away, it was or became long, excite/incite/urge/instigate, contend, dispose/accommodate, retract/digression/transition, to silence, tremble/shiver, share/portion.
Location where something is struck, wool or goat's hair separated or plucked or beaten with a mallet, sword, tent-peg, mallet."...and(thus) discipline/train them" also make sense to me....
though i would like to see how it was originaly cited in the dic., e.i. does this meaning requires any preposition to be used with d-r-b or d-r-b to be used in a particular stem or paradigm
best wishes, Zlatan
