Is Arabic a clear language?
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I am a native speaker of English and know the grammar inside out of French and German. I am pretty certain that had the Koran been written in those languages, based on grammar, there would be no confusion of interpretation of text.
Peace -- English grammar standards were non-existent until mid 1550 and Lane's Arabic Lexicon 1863.
I am speaking as someone, who only has access to the Koran through translation. How do I know that it will have been translated accurately. I don't mean in terms of shades of meaning. I mean in terms of fact. The verse about the orphans requires an accurate translation. It makes a whole big difference whether someone is marrying off the orphans or marrying them himself. As I said, I sometimes work in Saudi and I can guarantee you that the men here are not marrying four wives to protect them and their children.
They have to be of age before one can marry them; verse is pertaining to marrying grown women.
43 and if you fear that not you will be able to do justice in the orphans so marry what choice to you from al-nisa twos and three and four so if you fear that not you can do justice so one or what possess your right hands that lowest/minimum that not you oppress
46 and test the orphans until when reached the marriage so if you perceive from them rational so deliver to them their wealth and not eat/consume it wastefully and hastily lest/that they grow up and from is rich so should refrain and from is in need for so let eat/consume in fair manner so when you deliver to them their wealth so take witnesses on them and sufficient in The God Reckoner
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As I said, I sometimes work in Saudi and I can guarantee you that the men here are not marrying four wives to protect them and their children.
Peace,
Again, you are speaking from within a certain context. Saudi law is not going to dictate how polygamy plays out everywhere. It is especially not perceived in the same manner from a Quran only mindset.
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They have to be of age before one can marry them; verse is pertaining to marrying grown women.
43 and if you fear that not you will be able to do justice in the orphans so marry what choice to you from al-nisa twos and three and four so if you fear that not you can do justice so one or what possess your right hands that lowest/minimum that not you oppress
46 and test the orphans until when reached the marriage so if you perceive from them rational so deliver to them their wealth and not eat/consume it wastefully and hastily lest/that they grow up and from is rich so should refrain and from is in need for so let eat/consume in fair manner so when you deliver to them their wealth so take witnesses on them and sufficient in The God Reckoner
Also, Noon waalqalami has above made the point that I tried to convey in your earlier thread. Try to understand this within the context of widowed women with orphaned children. Quite obviously, the Saudi ulema has either not studied this verse properly or they have ignored the possibility of it serving a different purpose. You are seeing the repercussions of their biases playing out within their society.
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Salam
Majority think of Quran as an ordinary book that just read it and try to understand it but that?s not true. Not only for understanding the Quran language is irrelevant but also no matter how much one knows Arabic grammar and fluent in speaking or being native language Almighty God has set the condition to understand it and that?s sincerity and purity of the mind from all kind of idolatry that includes our ego too.
5675-I swear by the positions of the stars.
5676-This is an oath, if you only knew, that is awesome.
5677-This is an honorable Quran.
5678-In a protected book.
5679-None can grasp it except the sincere.
Peace
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5679-None can grasp it except the sincere.
Peace,
Very good point, Asana.
Dawn, try to read these verses with an open mind. Talk to God. Ask Him to give you signs. Ask Him to guide you in this matter. Don't let your experiences in Saudi Arabia put a veil over your eyes and heart. It may take some time to get your answer or He may answer you right away. Just have patience, reflect on these verses, and know that God will never lead you astray when you read to gain knowledge.
I've had to tell myself the same things. I only read translations but I know that He will guide me no matter what, because I am sincerely trying to gain the knowledge from Him.
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Peace Mazhar,
That is exactly my point. If it is so clear, why are there so many different interpretations of meanings?
Dawn
Salamun alaika,
Arabic words are as simple semantically and distinguishable from each other leading to perfect perception as one is not confused perceiving an apple different from banana.
Each word of Qur'aan is un-substituable; each is an embedded pearl at its place. Ridiculousness of different interpretation of meanings can be guauged from the definition of "word" in Arabic that it is coined for a SINGULAR meaning.
The present state of confusion for many about Qur'aan is result of efforts of hundreds of "scholars". This started from the days of its revelation.
Know it that those-members of ruling elite who knowingly refused to accept the Book, advised others;
"You people should not be attentive for listening this Qur'aan.
Instead, you devise and spread conjectures-palavers about it for roping away-limiting its efficacy.
The objective is that it might enable you people retain the dominating authority by rendering it nugatory"And please note that Qur'aan is perhaps the only Book in the world which is never translated by strictly adhering to the accepted principles of translating books in target languages. People did not feel shy even making "distinction" a synonym of "seclusion" while translating Qur'aan. If someone does it with an other book he is instantly declared an idiot.
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Peace All,
Thank you for all your replies. However, I must stress that I believe in the Koran 100% and believe it is the word of God. This does not stop me from thinking though that because of mistranslations half the world think that Muslims are allowed to beat their wives; that Muslim men are allowed to have four wives; that Muslim women have to cover their heads; that Muslims don't drink alcohol etc.
I understand the point all of you make that it is God that causes understanding of the Koran. But there are two types of understanding as far as I am concerned. There is the allegorical meaning, of which you all speak. But as God tells us, some things are clear. Such as charity. We all know we give to charity, we all know that we should live peaceful lives, we all know that we should value life. On the other hand, as someone pointed out, the Koran is dynamic and changes with time. For example we probably now all understand the challenge God was throwing to us when he dared any if us to attempt to write a single verse of the Koran. These are the things that are dynamic and make the book awesome. NOT when people choose not to translate it accurately to support their purpose. For example, I know that I should lengthen my skirt. Yet in some parts of the world, I am expected to wear a long skirt/dress. Whilst I am willing to acknowledge local custom, I refuse to accept someone telling me this is Islam, because it is NOT. Why? Because we have all been given the same text and therefore it means only one thing. NOT what someone's culture dictates, but what the Koran dictates.
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I agree there is a 100% accurate meaning (what I call the 'Quranic' meaning) but I don't believe I own it. I can only practice what I know to keep moving towards the 100%. So Dawn, if I were you, I would worry about the path more than the language. Arabic is simply a tool which you should use in tandem with your 'inner compass'. Don't worry about dictionaries, grammar or other lingustic knicknacks. Live the Quran as YOU see fit.
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Peace Abdulquran,
I take your point. However, the Koran does remind us to point out to others when they might be doing something not quite right. The verse evades me. For the most part, I do quietly get on with my life. However, when you regularly see people suffering gross injustices in the name of the Koran, then I don't believe we should just stand by and let the Wong continue.
This is exactly the reason why this site exists, to explore the fallacies built up around the inaccuracies created by ourselves in the Koran. It may be the Brit in me, but you just don't sit 'round and watch wrongs. You challenge them.
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Oh absolutely! We should struggle against the wrongs of this world. I believe that the underlying social philosophy of the Quran is about establishing justice in the sight of every system (7/29). Part of that struggle should be writing against hijacks of the Quran for authortarian purposes and oppression.