How does abstaining make me a better muslim, and why?
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I have some questions which have some bearing on this discussion of ramadhan and abstinence
By abstaining/observing sawm, how am I made a better muslim?
What does abstainging/sawm really mean?
I have found that during periods where I have not had sex my mind is clearer, you could say focussed. When I do study the quran I find it easier for things to 'slot in' to the right place in my mind's eye. The mental picture forms faster and clearer. This is entirely subjective and hasnt been objectively and 'scientifically' tested - might be an idea to conduct a short study about this!
Also, I have experienced periods this year when my partner went abroad, so I had days where I didn't speak to her. This did not in any way make me more focussed, nor did I receive any clarification at these times - probably because I was thinking more about her (yes, I missed her).
It would be an idea to look at the surrounding signs mentioning abstinence (im learning as I type this - so bear with me)
2183-187 feels like a complete cell of information.
My notes on this
*Abstinence decreed for me as it was for people before (before scripture?)
*Abstain for a few number of days.
*Don't do it if you're ill or travelling (mentioned twice, 2184 and 185) therefore probably cant 'observe' days when ill or travelling.
*You can 'make up' the days later or feed the needy - not necessary but good if done voluntarily.
*Fasting is better than doing good voluntarily.
*Not clear on 2185. States that quran sent down as guide, its clarification and criterion in early autumn. This state of 'sending down' can be observed (for all humanity - as quran for all). Therefore abstain if you can observe this 'sending down' or 'downloading'.
*Must be easy to do, not hard to 'complete the count'.
*God will be guiding directly, so glorify and thank him.
*God is answering calls of those who call to him - i.e. we can have a 'two-way' dialogue if you will, with God.
*Can have sex with our women during the night. (why only women, why not spouses? - is this abstaining observable only by men?? - link to 581-5?) However, 3335 speaks of the 'fasting men, and the fasting women' - so both can fast.
*WHAT is meant that by the term 'garment' when referring to spouses?
*God says that we 'used to betray' our soul, used to - referring to past tense. Past as in a time before I observe abstinence? Or past as in before scripture?
*SEEK what God has written for us, 'eat and drink' from this knowledge until dawn.
*abstain until night, and dont approach 'them' (who is this them, are we referring to the women again?) while we are devoted in the temples (mental state of masjid?)In wrap up - Revelations are clarified if we follow these instructions in 2183-187. Therefore the process of abstinence leads to clarification of revelations in order to make people righteous.
Now abstinence is mentioned again in 2196, however I do not fully understand the concept of 'pilgrimage' so I am having difficulty in integrating abstinence, apart from a number of days is given, possibly as a reference to the 'count' mentioned in 2185. This count mentioned in 2196 is for those whose 'family is not present at the restricted temple'. However, we are then told to be aware of God and know how severe his retribution is - possibly if we transgress His boundaries (2187). I think the fasting looks like something to do if a condition of pilgrimage is not fulfilled, just like in 589 (condition is different).
The abstinence in 1926 is not I believe referring to Mary's decision to stop talking to mankind on that day, rather not talking is a result of this abstention.
581-5, reads like an instruction for men, regarding women (see notes above). Abstinence is observed if a condition is not fulfilled, again something which can be replaced with feeding needy/poor people if 'he cannot'. The two consecutive months are also referred to in 492 - again as a repentance.
The above sounds garbled, I intend to rewrite it into something that reads better, but it should show you my line of reasoning - better to show it this way, that way it can be examined properly and assessed accordingly.
Tell me what you think - please help, as I am currently very concerned about my understanding of the abstinence process.
Thanks.
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peace be upon you zenje
With all due respect, I hadn't exhausted the idea of abstaining from food and drink, indeed abstinence from sex and one's spouse as mentioned in other posts here was not the conclusion but the starting point to re-evaluate my thinking at the time. I was attempting to find 'alternatives' to my traditional thinking if you will, attempting to think out of the box. The key to my post is that it simply asks more questions, hopefully ones that lead in the right direction. It feels as if most of what I have been brought up to believe is sourced in corrupted translations, so why not attempt to understand the concepts and guidance a fresh?
You quoted me as if I intentionally abstained from sex in order to derive a 'benefit' from it. There was no such process involved, it was just a very personal observation which I chose to share to see if anyone else had a similar experience.
In response to your close, I have been researching the 'benefits' of abstaining from food and drink, I am still to reduce the information down into simple facts, which I hope I may present here, that is if anyone is interested.
My main issue at the moment is that I do not understand Arabic, so I am tied to interpreting translated works. Inevitably errors in understanding will creep in, hence my plea for more input.
d
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Salaam darcus,
It feels as if most of what I have been brought up to believe is sourced in corrupted translations, so why not attempt to understand the concepts and guidance a fresh?
Tread carefully on that path, sometimes we tend to discount "everything" while using that understanding. Believe me, I understand that more than than your average joe, i.e. removing bias and starting afresh... but with what I've seen here in the past few months is 'losing balance' and going to the other extreme... to the point where we lose sense of everything. I won't go into details, but again - tread carefully.You quoted me as if I intentionally abstained from sex in order to derive a 'benefit' from it.
Well, I apologize if I made it seem so... but you did mention a benefit and the whole thread is a question as to 'why' we do what we do. Since sawm, according to me, includes (but not exclusive to) abstention of food, I didn't understand why you concentrated on "everything else" except the food/drink.I do appreciate your observations, infact I might add, they're quite intelligent. It's just that, sometimes I feel we try and look so deep into words and calculations, that we miss the basic picture that's all around us. Reminds me of this zen 'hadith' about a fish looking for water. Or in another instance, a investigative reporter who was accepting an award for journalism... took an onion (as an analogy)to represent a story that a reporter would investigate. So each time you look further into it, you'd be removing a layer of the onion, one layer after another, that by the end of it, you'd have nothing at all.
Sorry to have drifted away there, but I hope you got my meaning. Maybe I shouldn't ha even written this stuff on this thread and just to clarify, I don't mean to undermine your efforts or discourage you, in any shape of form. I also hope that others will help with further input.
Peace be with you.
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Peace be upon you Zenje,
Reminds me of this zen 'hadith' about a fish looking for water
Can we hear it?
Brother Darcus has just cause because the idea that "eat and drink" is not literally has validly come up. Further, you are able to think more clearly when you restrict yourself from sex for a time.
I always wondered why sports athletes , especially boxers, were told not to have sex before a big game/fight.
We have to connect these "disciplies" to some type of reason. 2187 is talking about sex with your spouse, then "eat and drink" comes in out of no where. Further, it is telling us to eat and drink, not telling us not to. Eat and drink elsewhere refers to the consumption of spiritual food(wisdom). So one can rightly state that it is possible that we are to "eat and drink" at night as nightimne is best for spiritual understanding, but durin the day abstain from sex and possibly talking to energize you and keep you in the "recieving" mode, unlike talking with is "giving" mode.
These are just thoughts, but they are valid. I do recognize your warning, but we cannot scare away credible thoughts.
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Salaam bro,
We have to connect these "disciplies" to some type of reason. 2187 is talking about sex with your spouse, then "eat and drink" comes in out of no where.
See I don't feel that it comes on out of nowhere. I think it's all connected. A form of discipline. On the other hand, the reading is full of verses like that, where at one point it's saying something, on the next verse, something totally different.
I like the points you gave about athletes, etc... please do not feel that I'm trying to scare away credible thoughts. It's just that sometimes, I have had the experience where when we look for a 'reason' as to why we fast or anything for that matter, as long as it's not clearly stated, then, while the reason may be a good one... it would be (IMO) a mistake to think that THAT is the reason we fast, etc. Because the day you find a glitch in that reason, the whole doctrine crumbles. Not sure if I'm clear, wish I could come up with an example, but I'm supposed to be working right now! twisted
In regard to the fish story... when/if I find it, I'll post it @ the book thread.
Peace!
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Peace be upon you Zenje,
See I don't feel that it comes on out of nowhere. I think it's all connected. A form of discipline.
Very well could be. I have been studying meditation lately. It is said that one should not have the feeling of "fullness" when they meditate. I think it has to do with the Chi/Kundalini/Ra/ (Ruh) that flows thought the body.
I think we will get the answer soon. D
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Peace be upon you Zenje,
Isn't it interesting how it all seems to be 'connected'?
Yes, very much so, and that is what manifests faith, when we see how everything is connected. D
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Peace Darcus,
You have made a list very much like mines o
Like me, you have more questions than answers. Making the list for me was clarifying. I have been thinking in reference to "your woman" that the commitment of armed struggle is not enjoined on woman. I don't see a reciprocal command for woman i.e., do not approach them, the men.
Also that those who cannot participate in this "hajj" or don't have family members participating are obligated to abstain the fixed total of 10 days.
I also think that there are different levels of hajj as in the 9 sura the "greatest hajj" is mentioned using a comparative which leaves room for a great and greater hajj. This greatest hajj is warfare.
Please continue to post your thoughts. Thanks
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Peace be upon you,
This greatest hajj is warfare.
I too see the logic in lesser and greater "hajj", I am not sure that the greatest hajj is warfare however, it has been my position that the greatest hajj is like the Geneva Convention, a world gathering.
The lower hajj would be day to day discussion with mankind.
I would think that the physical battle would be the LOWEST hajj, in fact, I would even list that under JIDAL, not HAJJ.
Please share any further verses you might have that would correct my thinking.