Polygamy - Time to settle the issue
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Peace Amina,
I know what you mean. I started guitar lessons back home, and now I have yet to find a new guitar teacher out here. My guitar is sitting lonely in a corner.
fftopic
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lol, its amusing how GODsubmitter pops up outta nowhere, it seems he's with us, keeping track of the thread, but doesn't want to participate in it. Am I right GODsubmitter?
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lol, its amusing how GODsubmitter pops up outta nowhere, it seems he's with us, keeping track of the thread, but doesn't want to participate in it. Am I right GODsubmitter?
I am here to learn about the Qur'an and issues connected with the Qur'an.
I do not participate if I cannot contribute with valuable information.
I also cease to follow the thread if it goes off topic. -
I am here to learn about the Qur'an and issues connected with the Qur'an.
I do not participate if I cannot contribute with valuable information.
I also cease to follow the thread if it goes off topic.Good
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Peace sister Maha,
Peace bro. You suggest the same thing, so whats the problem?
No, a man married to multiple women is not same as many men married to same multiple women.
You are right. I havent shown you that yet, I apologize for that. So let me show you the verse
Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and your foster mothers who suckled you, and your sisters from suckling, and the mothers of your women, and your step-daughters who are in your lodgings from your women with whom you have already consummated the marriage; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and those who are in wedlock with your sons who are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
How is the above verse evidence that many women are allowed to marry many men?
423 prohibited on/over you your mothers w-bnat-km and your girls/daughters and your sisters and your father?s sisters and your mothers sisters w-bnat and girls/daughters the brother w-bnat and girls/daughters the sister and mothers the ones who nursed you and your sisters from the nursing and mothers nisakum/your feminine/women and your step daughters the ones who in your guardianship from nisakum/your feminine/women the ones who entered in them so if not you were entered in them so not blame on/over you and wives your sons the ones who from your loins and that you gathered between the two sisters only what hence passed indeed The God is Forgiving Merciful
On the contrary IF prohibited ? between the two sisters? THEN permitted are non-sisters!
So you mean that quran is a book for tribal societies? Well then we cannot really use it anymore in our modern western gender-equal society anymore, right?
P.s Can you show me where the quran says that it was delivered in the 6th century?
No, not what I wrote.
It does not say in Qur?an nor did I write; approximate time known by language history (coins, inscriptions).
http//ancientcoinsforeducation.org/gallery2/v/Coins+of+Pre-Islamic+Eastern+Cultures/10+Sasanian+Khusru+II.jpg.htmlHis pairs is lawful for him. What has this to do with the nisa discussion?
Another translating could be No NISA are lawful to you after this, nor that you change them for pairs, even though you may be attracted by their goodness, except what is maintained by your oath. And God is Watcher over all things.
In other words, you cannot exchange NISA with Azwaj.
In context, explain pairs and likewise how other than females/nisa can menstruate and give birth?
Let me give you the verses where NISA cannot mean women
314 Beautified for people {An-Nas} is the love of that which they desire ? of women {An-Nisa?} and sons, heaped-up sums of gold and silver, fine branded horses, and cattle and tilled land. That is the enjoyment of worldly life, but Allah has with Him the best return
Nisa here cannot mean women because Homosexuality would then be justified
Cross-reference for consistency and best meaning ?
sons (plural)
3355 not blame onto them in their fathers and not their sons and not their brothers and not sons their brothers and not sons their sisters and not their feminine/women and not what possess their right hands and be mindful The God indeed The God is on/over each thing witness
249 and when We saved you from family Pharaoh afflicting you horrible the punishment slaughtering your sons and letting live nisakum/your feminine/women and in those a trial from your Lord great
wal-bnyn/and the masculine/males
314 ornament/beautified to al-nas/the humankind love
the desires from the feminine/women and the masculine/males
and the heaps the stored up from the gold and the silver
and the horses the branded
and the cattle
and the tilled landthose provision the life the world
and The God with Him best the place of return6100 and they make to God partners the jinn and He created them and they attribute to Him bnyn/masculine/males w-bnat/and girls/daughters without knowledge Glory be to Him and Exalted He of what they attribute
37151 that not indeed they from their lie they say
37152 walada/born/begot The God and indeed they surely liars
37153 has He chosen al-bnat/the girls/daughters on/over al-bnyn/the masculine/malesI will come up with other verses soon as well..
OK and please first answer above questions posted to you especially on menses and child birth.
Peace
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Noon
No, a man married to multiple women is not same as many men married to same multiple women.
Please explain why its not the same.
How is the above verse evidence that many women are allowed to marry many men?
Let me repeat it Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and your foster mothers who suckled you, and your sisters from suckling, and the mothers of your women, and your step-daughters who are in your lodgings from your women with whom you have already consummated the marriage; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and those who are in wedlock with your sons who are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Use your brain please. You are not allowed to marry the wife of your biological son, which means that if he wasnt your biological son you could marry her. So the wife ends up having two husbands.
On the contrary IF prohibited ? between the two sisters? THEN permitted are non-sisters!
Same thing goes from the verse above. IF prohibited between your biological sons THEN permitted are non-biological sons wife!
No, not what I wrote.
It does not say in Qur?an nor did I write; approximate time known by language history (coins, inscriptions).
What have these coins to do with anything? And you basically say that a modern woman like me who doesnt live in a tribal village, should not follow the quran since its not written for me?
In context, explain pairs and likewise how other than females/nisa can menstruate and give birth?
give me the verses and please answer my question. is being lesbian allowed?
sons (plural)
3355 not blame onto them in their fathers and not their sons and not their brothers and not sons their brothers and not sons their sisters and not their feminine/women and not what possess their right hands and be mindful The God indeed The God is on/over each thing witness
249 and when We saved you from family Pharaoh afflicting you horrible the punishment slaughtering your sons and letting live nisakum/your feminine/women and in those a trial from your Lord great
wal-bnyn/and the masculine/males
314 ornament/beautified to al-nas/the humankind love
the desires from the feminine/women and the masculine/males
and the heaps the stored up from the gold and the silver
and the horses the branded
and the cattle
and the tilled landthose provision the life the world
and The God with Him best the place of return6100 and they make to God partners the jinn and He created them and they attribute to Him bnyn/masculine/males w-bnat/and girls/daughters without knowledge Glory be to Him and Exalted He of what they attribute
37151 that not indeed they from their lie they say
37152 walada/born/begot The God and indeed they surely liars
37153 has He chosen al-bnat/the girls/daughters on/over al-bnyn/the masculine/malesI didnt understood the point of the cross references. Please just tell me in short, how I desire women.
Peace
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For Noon WalQalami
Salamun Alaykum Noon, keep in my mind my reply to you in Reply #209 http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604568.msg313973#msg313973 I'm expecting a reply from you for that.
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fftopic
Hmmm...just because we are not quoting from the Qur'an or having a deep discussion using every Arabic term doesn't mean we are getting off topic...did I not just use a personal situation to refer to the topic we are discussing? I think I did.
But fine...I will leave the thread alone so that you can participate.
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Peace Fallen Angel,
Thank you for your reply in post 224. I take your point about the husband having to ask permission. However, even if a woman has the opportunity to be consulted, I fear her heart will have been broken by the sheer knowledge that her husband would like an additional wife. Remember, that this new marriage is not just about protecting the adult orphan women, marriage implies they are going to be intimate with each other. So, whereas personally I would be impressed if my husband wanted to support an unfortunate woman financially, I would not be happy with the intimacy part of the support.
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Hmmm...just because we are not quoting from the Qur'an or having a deep discussion using every Arabic term doesn't mean we are getting off topic...did I not just use a personal situation to refer to the topic we are discussing? I think I did.
But fine...I will leave the thread alone so that you can participate.
Peace Amina,
Your participation is welcome and we love reading your posts. Don't worry about what anyone says.
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Peace Maha,
Please explain why its not the same.
Not same or A != B
A. Man married to multiple women
B. Woman married to multiple menUse your brain please. You are not allowed to marry the wife of your biological son, which means that if he wasnt your biological son you could marry her. So the wife ends up having two husbands.
Same thing goes from the verse above. IF prohibited between your biological sons THEN permitted are non-biological sons wife!
- Needs to divorce first; see example in 3337
- 423 waalailu your sons the ones who from your loins
the above pertains to their sons? former wives Ha-Lam-Lam = To untie/undo/open (a knot) - Already married women are prohibited 424 w-al-mnat (already explained by Fallen Angel)
What have these coins to do with anything? And you basically say that a modern woman like me who doesnt live in a tribal village, should not follow the quran since its not written for me?
You asked about the revelation timeline how it can be determined; therefore, coins, inscriptions, etc.
No. I did not write or infer anything about your modernity. Those are ideas that popped in your head.give me the verses and please answer my question. is being lesbian allowed?
Sure for you and Shirley ? explain how al-nisa can be other than (insert meaning) feminine/women?
2222 and they ask you about the menstruation say it ailment so abandon the feminine/women in the menstruation
411.... so if are feminine/women above two (feminine) so to them (feminine) two thirds what left
422 and not marry whom married your fathers from the feminine/women
651 O you the prophet when you divorce the feminine/women so divorce them to their waiting period and count the count
654 and the ones (feminine) who despaired from the menstruation from nisakum/your feminine/women if you doubt so their waiting period three cycles and the ones (feminine) not menstruated and those the pregnant their term that they put aside their loads (i.e. give birth) and from fears The God He makes for him from His directive easier
I didnt understood the point of the cross references. Please just tell me in short, how I desire women.
I'm sure that not all people have a fetish for fine horses, cattle, and farms.
Try insert your meaning for al-nisa then post the verse see how it comes out?
Read verse carefully pay attention to each word especially "from" (i.e. subset). -
Noon
Not same or A != B
A. Man married to multiple women
B. Woman married to multiple menIts excately the same. Whats the difference?
- Needs to divorce first; see example in 3337
- 423 waalailu your sons the ones who from your loins
the above pertains to their sons? former wives Ha-Lam-Lam = To untie/undo/open (a knot) - Already married women are prohibited 424 w-al-mnat (already explained by Fallen Angel)
Women with multiple husbands also do get divorced.
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The verse is in present tense. So its not your sons former wives, but your sons wives.
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Muh7senaat does not mean ''married'' and I have explained that earlier as well. Neither does it mean married in free minds quran translation.
No. I did not write or infer anything about your modernity. Those are ideas that popped in your head.
You contradict yourself. First you said quran is a tribal book because it was sent down in a 6 century tribal village. Then I asked you if quran is useless for non-tribal societies which you now say no to. Thats a contradiction. If quran is promoting tribalism, then it per logic cannot be used in non-tribal societies.
2222 and they ask you about the menstruation say it ailment so abandon the feminine/women in the menstruation
Since you dont have the guts answer my question about if being lesbian is allowed or not, let me tell you, that 'menstruation' isnt to be found in the arabic text.
411.... so if are feminine/women above two (feminine) so to them (feminine) two thirds what left
And NISA here can only mean women because? confused
I'm sure that not all people have a fetish for fine horses, cattle, and farms.
Try insert your meaning for al-nisa then post the verse see how it comes out?
Read verse carefully pay attention to each word especially "from" (i.e. subset).''Women'' doesnt come out well as well. What have fine horses, cattle and farms to do with anything?
Peace
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Peace Fallen Angel,
Thank you for your reply in post 224. I take your point about the husband having to ask permission. However, even if a woman has the opportunity to be consulted, I fear her heart will have been broken by the sheer knowledge that her husband would like an additional wife. Remember, that this new marriage is not just about protecting the adult orphan women, marriage implies they are going to be intimate with each other. So, whereas personally I would be impressed if my husband wanted to support an unfortunate woman financially, I would not be happy with the intimacy part of the support.
Peace Dawn,
You're welcome, and I'm glad you got the answer.
I'm not married so I'm not really sure, but I think that husbands and wives are supposed to know each other quite well right? So the husband should already know what type of a wife he has, whether she'll be heartbroken or whether she'd approve it. So if the husband feels that his wife's heart will be broken, then he shouldn't be thinking about marrying another woman in the first place. Secondly, I admit that the wife would feel extremely bad even if he asks her permission and accepts her refusal, however, shouldn't she then look at the bright side that at least he asked her instead of surprising her out of nowhere by bringing in other women as wives right?
But wait, there's something more important that I just noticed that needs to be cleared up, you said 'Orphan women', that is the term in 4127. In 43 which I am viewing as permitting polygamy, only 'Orphans' has been used. Let me repost the literal translation to clear any misconception up
And if you (Masculine) fear that you would not be able to do justice between the orphans, so marry women who have agreed with you, in twos/two and threes/three and fours/four. Consequently if you fear you cannot be equitable, so one
It aren't 'the women' who need justice or help, nor is it the 'orphaned women'. But it is the 'Orphans' in general who need justice, which would be given to them by marrying women. Based on that, I deduce it must be emotional justice, and it may also refer to marrying the mother, however, it is not exactly specified as the word used is 'Women', not 'Mothers of orphans'. How does it do justice has been discussed in the much earlier pages.
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however, it is not exactly specified as the word used is 'Women', not 'Mothers of orphans'.
Qur'aan does not use the word "widow". Married women are always referred by the name of their husbands even after their death. She remains wife of that deceased man for reference until she marries another man. The discourse in 43 is about treatment of orphans. "The Women" here means only the wives of deceased men who left "orphans" behind, and thereby, they are none but "the mothers of orphans". The prepositional Phrase ? ? relates to elided circumstantial clause that makes the point conspicous and restrictive to such mothers