How to approach verse 4.59
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Some times ago I was on a danish sunni forum where my user profile has been deleted several times. And now somehow they have reopened it again confused I noted a message from one of the users there where he claimed he could expose something.
(I have translated it from Danish)
KORAN 4,59
Sahih International
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best and best in result.With this single verse I have exposed heretic quranist false sect and their murdad approach. Now since those in authority among you arent our scholars as you pagans claim, then it must mean the kuffar cops and kuffar governments in Denmark. Now as the murdads you guys are, can you explain how am I going to refer to Allah and the Messenger with the kuffars here? Since Allah and messenger both means ''quran'' according to you blasphemous murdads, then how can I take up the quran and tell the kuffar here ''LISTEN MY QURAN BOOK SAYS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE SHARIA NOT DEMOCRACY''??? And that is going to solve the disagreements between me and the kuffar???? you little islamophobic quranist sect, how can this verse solve any of your problems in kuffar nations? This is what happens when barbaric islamophobes aka quranist misinterpret the quran in order to please the kuffar all the quranist I know have late night parties everyday with music, alcohol and naked quranist women because oh yeah hijab now isnt compulsory anymore and oh yeah now alcohol is also halal and oh yeah music is also halal now and therefore quranist have haram parties astaghfirullah? Now Allah is my witness that I have tried make a murdad come back to Noor-Al-Islam and if you still wont then have the guts and tell me HOW THIS VERSE CAN SOLVE THE DISAGREEMENTS BETWEEN ME AND THE KUFFARS IF YOU ARE TRUTHFUL IN YOUR PAGAN INTERPRETATION.
Hamza.
There is no way I am going to reply to that insulting message. However, I would like to ask your opinions about this verse that how can we refer back to God and the messenger with those in authority among us?
Peace
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Peace,
I hope none invited him to live in a Non Believing society. He would have gone there by his own choice. He has to abide by the laws-words framed by the Rulers of that society Nation.
The verse is about affairs within a Believing State. Simple point is that if the rulers ask its subjects to follow a certain word-law and people have a dispute about it, thereat, it should be evaluated according to the dictates of Qur'aan. Allah the Exalted and the Messenger of Allah mentioned jointly means only Qur'aan since it is the Word of Allah and the Word of the Messenger since it was narrated by him word by word, syllable by syllable.
O you who declare to have accepted!
You people listen and wholeheartedly accept the Word of Allah the Exalted, and listen and accept the Word of the Messenger ;
and, accept the word of the people holding authority and administering the affairs.
Thereby, for reason if you people wrangle in some matter stated by men of authority-rulers then you should revert that to Allah the Exalted and the Messenger if you people truly believe in Allah the Exalted and the Last Day.
This is the best course, and in ultimate analysis-outcome it is most appropriate and balanced. -
Peace Maha.
Here is my view on this
I have no doubt that in the absence of the messenger ( ie dead) , Qoran is the messenger and the only source we should refer to. Let me explain4;59 Tells us if we dispute anything we should refer it to God and the messenger.
4;60 Clarifies that those who claim to believe in God s revelation ,then uphold the laws of their idols ( ie hadith/sunnah/other..) the devil is leading them astray.
461 Now here is the crunch verse" When they are told come to what God has revealed and to the messenger , you see the hypocrites shunning you completely."
"What God has revealed is Qoran" The messenger refers to Qoran Alone. We should refer to Qoran Alone. God calls those who refer to other than Qoran, Hypocrites!
Peace.
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Peace,
Doesn't refer to God mean Quran since we cannot refer to God in any other way?
If we say I refered my dispute to God, without using Quran, wouldn't that be
idolatrous? It appears that should be interpreted as followsParenthesis are mine
459] O you who believe, you shall obey GOD, and you shall obey the messenger,(do what the messenger tells you to do) and those in charge among you. (and those the prophet has appointed as leaders, do what they tell you to do) If you dispute in any matter, ( don't agree with those in charge) you shall refer it to GOD and the messenger, (Quran or ask the prophet) if you do believe in GOD and the Last Day. This is better for you, and provides you with the best solution.
Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray.
When they are told, "Come to what GOD has revealed, and to the messenger," you see the hypocrites shunning you completely.
How will it be when a disaster hits them, as a consequence of their own works? They will come to you then and swear by GOD "Our intentions were good and righteous!"
GOD is fully aware of their innermost intentions. You shall ignore them, enlighten them, and give them good advice that may save their souls.
We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed in accordance with GOD's will. Had they, when they wronged their souls, come to you and prayed to GOD for forgiveness, and the messenger prayed for their forgiveness, they would have found GOD Redeemer, Most Merciful.
Never indeed, by your Lord; they are not believers unless they come to you to judge in their disputes, then find no hesitation in their hearts whatsoever in accepting your judgment. They must submit a total submission.
It appears to me that Muhammad is the messenger of 459
Please correct me if I am mistaken
Peace O0
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Peace,
I hope none invited him to live in a Non Believing society. He would have gone there by his own choice. He has to abide by the laws-words framed by the Rulers of that society Nation.
The verse is about affairs within a Believing State. Simple point is that if the rulers ask its subjects to follow a certain word-law and people have a dispute about it, thereat, it should be evaluated according to the dictates of Qur'aan. Allah the Exalted and the Messenger of Allah mentioned jointly means only Qur'aan since it is the Word of Allah and the Word of the Messenger since it was narrated by him word by word, syllable by syllable.
O you who declare to have accepted!
You people listen and wholeheartedly accept the Word of Allah the Exalted, and listen and accept the Word of the Messenger ;
and, accept the word of the people holding authority and administering the affairs.
Thereby, for reason if you people wrangle in some matter stated by men of authority-rulers then you should revert that to Allah the Exalted and the Messenger if you people truly believe in Allah the Exalted and the Last Day.
This is the best course, and in ultimate analysis-outcome it is most appropriate and balanced.Thank you. However, the question is, what is a ''believing state'' ? Can a secular state be ''believing?''
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Peace Maha.
Here is my view on this
I have no doubt that in the absence of the messenger ( ie dead) , Qoran is the messenger and the only source we should refer to. Let me explain4;59 Tells us if we dispute anything we should refer it to God and the messenger.
4;60 Clarifies that those who claim to believe in God s revelation ,then uphold the laws of their idols ( ie hadith/sunnah/other..) the devil is leading them astray.
461 Now here is the crunch verse" When they are told come to what God has revealed and to the messenger , you see the hypocrites shunning you completely."
"What God has revealed is Qoran" The messenger refers to Qoran Alone. We should refer to Qoran Alone. God calls those who refer to other than Qoran, Hypocrites!
Peace.
Thank you so much group
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Peace,
Doesn't refer to God mean Quran since we cannot refer to God in any other way?
If we say I refered my dispute to God, without using Quran, wouldn't that be
idolatrous? It appears that should be interpreted as followsParenthesis are mine
459] O you who believe, you shall obey GOD, and you shall obey the messenger,(do what the messenger tells you to do) and those in charge among you. (and those the prophet has appointed as leaders, do what they tell you to do) If you dispute in any matter, ( don't agree with those in charge) you shall refer it to GOD and the messenger, (Quran or ask the prophet) if you do believe in GOD and the Last Day. This is better for you, and provides you with the best solution.
Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray.
When they are told, "Come to what GOD has revealed, and to the messenger," you see the hypocrites shunning you completely.
How will it be when a disaster hits them, as a consequence of their own works? They will come to you then and swear by GOD "Our intentions were good and righteous!"
GOD is fully aware of their innermost intentions. You shall ignore them, enlighten them, and give them good advice that may save their souls.
We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed in accordance with GOD's will. Had they, when they wronged their souls, come to you and prayed to GOD for forgiveness, and the messenger prayed for their forgiveness, they would have found GOD Redeemer, Most Merciful.
Never indeed, by your Lord; they are not believers unless they come to you to judge in their disputes, then find no hesitation in their hearts whatsoever in accepting your judgment. They must submit a total submission.
It appears to me that Muhammad is the messenger of 459
Please correct me if I am mistaken
Peace O0
why is it muhammad who is the messenger in 4,59?
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why is it muhammad who is the messenger in 4,59?
Peace Maha,
O you who believe, you shall obey GOD, and you shall obey the messenger, and those in charge among you. If you dispute in any matter, you shall refer it to GOD and the messenger, if you do believe in GOD and the Last Day. This is better for you, and provides you with the best solution.
Because there are two entities one is God and the other is the messenger, the messenger could not
be the Quran in this instance because then it would read obey God and obey Quran, a clear
redundancy. My understanding is this obey God by means of his revelation (Quran) and obey
Muhammad who is the messenger.We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed in accordance with GOD's will. Had they, when they wronged their souls, come to you and prayed to GOD for forgiveness, and the messenger prayed for their forgiveness, they would have found GOD Redeemer, Most Merciful.
Please note Can the Quran pray for our forgiveness?
Peace O0
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Peace Maha
Following the line of messengers regarding the last message to humankind from God
Angel Gabriel delivered the message from god to Muhammad. He is the first message bearer or messenger.
Then, Muhammad delivered the message to the people of his time. Muhammad becomes the message bearer or messenger.
Then, Muhammad dies and the message is left in the Holy Quran. Qura'n becames the message bearer or messanger.In my opinion messenger and message are the same thing. When people reject a message they reject the messenger, and by rejecting the messenger they reject the message. Destroying or Denying the messenger is a refusal to accept the sender requests.
In conclusion In obeying only the Qura'n you are obeying the prophet Muhammad, the angel Gabriel, and finally and most importantly, you are obeying the sender that is the All MIGHTY GOD. exalted be Him above what the hypocrites equal to Him.
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Peace everyone,
Because there are two entities one is God and the other is the messenger, the messenger could not
be the Quran in this instance because then it would read obey God and obey Quran, a clear
redundancy...In my humble opinion, I think that obey God and obey the messenger is still redundant anyway since the messenger only followed revelation.
When people reject a message they reject the messenger, and by rejecting the messenger they reject the message. Destroying or Denying the messenger is a refusal to accept the sender requests.
bravo
Peace! yay
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Peace everyone,
In my humble opinion, I think that obey God and obey the messenger is still redundant anyway since the messenger only followed revelation.
bravo
Peace! yayPeace inquisitivetrini,
To obey God and obey the messenger is a reenforcement to the audience to obey the
messenger of God. This is a reminder to those who harbor doubts, and also the way
of settling disputes among those that the messenger puts in charge. Therefore the
followers are reminded that obeying Muhammad is obeying God.Muhammad may be following revelation but some adherants may be hesitant, therefore
they were encouraged to obey the messenger hence obeying God.Peace Maha
Following the line of messengers regarding the last message to humankind from GodAngel Gabriel delivered the message from god to Muhammad. He is the first message bearer or messenger.
Then, Muhammad delivered the message to the people of his time. Muhammad becomes the message bearer or messenger.
Then, Muhammad dies and the message is left in the Holy Quran. Qura'n becames the message bearer or messanger.Agreed
Peace Maha
In my opinion messenger and message are the same thing. When people reject a message they reject the messenger, and by rejecting the messenger they reject the message. Destroying or Denying the messenger is a refusal to accept the sender requests.very good
This is the heart of the matter, some folks had to be reminded that Muhammad was speaking for God.
By the way wrkmmn no need to shout!
Peace O0