Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. General Issues / Questions
  4. The creation of the heavens and the Earth

The creation of the heavens and the Earth

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
114 Posts 18 Posters 3.3k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • S Offline
    S Offline
    sushi1992
    wrote on last edited by
    #67

    Peace sushi1992,

    The psyhics of time is hinted in the Quran.

    All matters are controlled by Him from the heaven to the earth. To Him, the day is equivalent to one thousand of your years.

    Shakir To Him ascend the angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years.

    We could also substistute ascend or travel or rise in place of climb. The point is that this distance
    that is being described appears to be angels moving to a destination. Movement across and thru
    the known universe for us takes a vast amount of time, comparatively 50,000 years from some other
    perspective can be a day or even shorter.

    God is Omnipresent.

    To GOD belongs the east and the west; wherever you go there will be the presence of GOD. GOD is Omnipresent, Omniscient.

    It cannot be said that God is affected by time. That is still a hypothesis.

    To GOD belongs the future of the heavens and the earth. As far as He is concerned, the end of the world (the Hour) is a blink of an eye away, or even closer. GOD is Omnipotent.

    The one who possessed knowledge from the book said, "I can bring it to you in the blink of your eye." When he saw it settled in front of him, he said, "This is a blessing from my Lord, whereby He tests me, to show whether I am appreciative or unappreciative. Whoever is appreciative is appreciative for his own good, and if one turns unappreciative, then my Lord is in no need for him, Most Honorable."

    Our commands are done within the blink of an eye.

    Peace O0

    Peace hawkninetynine ),

    I understand what you are saying, but I don't think I understand the destination of the angels. If God is omnipresent, why does it take that many years to ascend to Him? Or is it referring to a different destination of some sort? Or God is omnipresent but it takes many years to ascend to God.. But then I feel I'm contradicting myself (... Please be humble to take your time to explain maybe once again if you could,

    Much appreciated ), if anyone else wishes to point out what I'm missing I would really appreciate it ).

    May God guide me to the truth and a better understanding of life ).

    peace

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • S Offline
      S Offline
      StopS
      wrote on last edited by
      #68

      Peace Stop S,

      Yes, time is no longer believed to be constant. You may be confusing time with the speed of light which is constant.

      Light can be slowed down.
      Let's look at an extreme if you travel at the speed of light, would time around you appear to stop? Yes. Would clocks still tick? No. Time seems variable and seems to stop around you.
      Would your body cells stop ageing? No, time for you and your continuum does not stop. Are you thinking of time dilation? So you need to define your frame of reference.

      No technical definitions are needed. Casual references are enough to conclude that the variances of day are dependant on circumstances.

      Peace O0

      Why didn't you finish the argument?

      1. No technical definitions are needed.
      2. Casual references are enough to conclude that the variances of day are dependant on circumstances.
      3. Because it is not a work of reference or science text book.

      What you get are indications or hints, which mean a long time, a long distance, a great height, a lot of power, etc

      What is comical is your claim that "It cannot be said that God is affected by time" and continue using time references belongs the future, end of the world (the Hour), blink of an eye, creation is measured in Earth days, the hereafter, eternally, etc

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • H Offline
        H Offline
        hawk99
        wrote on last edited by
        #69

        Peace hawkninetynine ,
        I understand what you are saying, but I don't think I understand the destination of the angels. If God is omnipresent, why does it take that many years to ascend to Him? Or is it referring to a different destination of some sort? Or God is omnipresent but it takes many years to ascend to God.. But then I feel I'm contradicting myself (... Please be humble to take your time to explain maybe once again if you could,
        Much appreciated , if anyone else wishes to point out what I'm missing I would really appreciate it .
        May God guide me to the truth and a better understanding of life .
        peace

        Peace sushi1992,

        Like you I can only speculate since God did not find it necessary to give details.
        Omnipresence appears to be the tripping point, so omnipresence needs further
        investigation.

        To GOD belongs the east and the west; wherever you go there will be the presence of GOD. GOD is Omnipresent, Omniscient.

        The best that I can come up with at the moment is this

        When Moses came at our appointed time, and his Lord spoke with him, he said, "My Lord, let me look and see You." He said, "You cannot see Me. Look at that mountain; if it stays in its place, then you can see Me." Then, his Lord manifested Himself to the mountain, and this caused it to crumble. Moses fell unconscious. When he came to, he said, "Be You glorified. I repent to You, and I am the most convinced believer."

        Obviously God talked to moses here on earth without a physical presence.

        The actual "physical" presence of God cannot be withstood by our world.
        On the other hand, verse is also true, so the means of God being
        omnipresent must be carried out by what he created.

        The distance traveled or ascended is relative.

        may I borrow your saying?

        May God guide me to the truth and a better understanding of life

        Peace O0

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • H Offline
          H Offline
          hawk99
          wrote on last edited by
          #70

          Why didn't you finish the argument?

          1. No technical definitions are needed.
          2. Casual references are enough to conclude that the variances of day are dependant on circumstances.
          3. Because it is not a work of reference or science text book.

          very good

          What you get are indications or hints, which mean a long time, a long distance, a great height, a lot of power, etc

          Please my friend do not speak for me I have enough trouble doing that myself.
          What ayats and indicate to me is that time is relative.

          What is comical is your claim that "It cannot be said that God is affected by time" and continue using time references belongs the future, end of the world (the Hour), blink of an eye, creation is measured in Earth days, the hereafter, eternally, etc

          Glad to humor you, my understanding and your understanding of God differ So do not be surprised
          that our attributes of God do not coincide.

          Peace O0

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • S Offline
            S Offline
            StopS
            wrote on last edited by
            #71

            Please my friend do not speak for me I have enough trouble doing that myself.
            What ayats and indicate to me is that time is relative.

            I would never do that. "What you get" is like saying the Koran says...
            What happens if you read 2219, 443, 590, 1667? Is alcohol also relative?

            Glad to humor you, my understanding and your understanding of God differ So do not be surprised that our attributes of God do not coincide.

            Peace O0

            Even if our understanding regarding a god differ, you need to decide whether time plays a role or not. You are contradicting yourself.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • H Offline
              H Offline
              hawk99
              wrote on last edited by
              #72

              I would never do that. "What you get" is like saying the Koran says...
              What happens if you read 2219, 443, 590, 1667? Is alcohol also relative?

              Alcohol relative? I know about alcoholic relatives but no I don't recall alcohol being part
              of the theory of relativity.

              Even if our understanding regarding a god differ, you need to decide whether time plays a role or not. You are contradicting yourself.

              Disagree

              I do not need to satisfy the unsatisfiable. I don't want to keep repeating myself.
              We have different understandings regarding God, and I have no problem with that.

              Peace O0

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • S Offline
                S Offline
                sushi1992
                wrote on last edited by
                #73

                Peace sushi1992,

                Like you I can only speculate since God did not find it necessary to give details.
                Omnipresence appears to be the tripping point, so omnipresence needs further
                investigation.

                To GOD belongs the east and the west; wherever you go there will be the presence of GOD. GOD is Omnipresent, Omniscient.

                The best that I can come up with at the moment is this

                When Moses came at our appointed time, and his Lord spoke with him, he said, "My Lord, let me look and see You." He said, "You cannot see Me. Look at that mountain; if it stays in its place, then you can see Me." Then, his Lord manifested Himself to the mountain, and this caused it to crumble. Moses fell unconscious. When he came to, he said, "Be You glorified. I repent to You, and I am the most convinced believer."

                Obviously God talked to moses here on earth without a physical presence.

                The actual "physical" presence of God cannot be withstood by our world.
                On the other hand, verse is also true, so the means of God being
                omnipresent must be carried out by what he created.

                The distance traveled or ascended is relative.

                may I borrow your saying?

                May God guide me to the truth and a better understanding of life

                Peace O0

                Peace hawkninetynine ,

                Please use my saying its a very good one in mo opinion . And regarding the omnipresence, I believe God is omnipresent everywhere however in terms of what is meant by these verses, it will require more study...

                Peace peace

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • S Offline
                  S Offline
                  StopS
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #74

                  I believe God is omnipresent everywhere

                  If you believe god to be omnipresent, why or how is there a throne, a house or a being closer? Is god in hell?

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • I Offline
                    I Offline
                    inquisitivetrini
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #75

                    Peace StopS,

                    Why or how is there a throne?

                    2255 God, there is no god except He, the Living, the Sustainer. No slumber or sleep overtakes Him; to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who will intercede with Him except with His permission? He knows their present and their future, and they do not have any of His knowledge except for what He wishes. His Throne encompasses all of the heavens and the earth and it is easy for Him to preserve them. He is the Most High, the Great.

                    How is there a house?

                    There is no physical house www.free-minds.org/whats-name

                    The institution of hearing and obeying the forbidden includes a communication medium ("bayt&quot where people can safely and in tranquility hear what is forbidden so that they can obey it. That communication vehicle may be a physical place where people gather safely to hear what is forbidden and (hopefully) obeying it. However, the main objective is not the physical place in itself. The physical place is only a means for hearing (i.e. communicating) what is forbidden to people.

                    The house/"al-bayt"

                    The "masjid" and the "bayt" are not the same thing. As a result of giving the concepts of "al-masjid al-haram" and "al-bayt" proper names not authorized by The God, those concepts have been used interchangeably by sectarians and if you ask them, they will not know the difference between those two distinct concepts. The "bayt" (house) is the way that people hear what is forbidden. The house of the forbidden can be considered the communication vehicle of the institution of hearing and obeying the forbidden. As such, it can be anywhere where people gather to safely hear and obey what is forbidden, and is not restricted to a certain physical location...

                    How is there a being closer?

                    5016 And We have created man and We know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than his jugular vein.

                    If God is closer to you than your jugular vein, where are YOU?

                    Is god in hell?

                    Where is Hell? Is Hell actually physical? Did His throne extend to Hell as well?

                    Peace. yay

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • H Offline
                      H Offline
                      hawk99
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #76

                      Peace,

                      To GOD belongs the east and the west; wherever you go there will be the presence of GOD. GOD is Omnipresent, Omniscient.

                      omnipresent

                      Definition

                      om?ni?pres?entADJECTIVE

                      1. always present everywhere continuously and simultaneously present throughout the whole of creation

                      2. found everywhere present or seemingly present all the time or everywhere

                      Thesaurus

                      ADJECTIVE

                      Synonyms ubiquitous, all-pervading, universal, ever-present, pervasive, all over

                      ADJECTIVE

                      Antonyms absent

                      O0

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • S Offline
                        S Offline
                        StopS
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #77

                        His Throne encompasses all of the heavens and the earth

                        Yes, thank you, but it still is a physical restriction, especially when it is located within our own space/time continuum.

                        There is no physical house www.free-minds.org/whats-name

                        Thank you, now it makes more sense. After reading it I don't understand at all why some call the Kaaba the house of Allah or some mosque the same.

                        If God is closer to you than your jugular vein, where are YOU?

                        Compared to omnipresent that is still far away. The point is that there is no far or close when considering omnipresence.

                        Where is Hell? Is Hell actually physical? Did His throne extend to Hell as well?

                        I thought and was hoping that you could tell me. ???

                        If you are right and "His Throne encompasses all of the heavens and the earth" then the answer is no, because hell is not explicitly mentioned. But then that would exclude omnipresence. Is this a matter of personal choice?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • S Offline
                          S Offline
                          StopS
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #78

                          Peace,

                          To GOD belongs the east and the west; wherever you go there will be the presence of GOD. GOD is Omnipresent, Omniscient.

                          omnipresent

                          Definition

                          om?ni?pres?entADJECTIVE

                          1. always present everywhere continuously and simultaneously present throughout the whole of creation

                          2. found everywhere present or seemingly present all the time or everywhere

                          Thesaurus

                          ADJECTIVE

                          Synonyms ubiquitous, all-pervading, universal, ever-present, pervasive, all over

                          ADJECTIVE

                          Antonyms absent

                          O0

                          I have no idea whether I should have the same conversation with 2 different people??
                          If, as you say, omnipresence is a fact, then how can a human be closer or further away?
                          If Allah is everywhere or ubiquitous, is he also in hell?

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • G Offline
                            G Offline
                            good_logic
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #79

                            Peace StopS.

                            Qoran says Hell does not exist yet?

                            It will be created when judgement comes. At the end of this" Life".

                            Peace.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • S Offline
                              S Offline
                              sushi1992
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #80

                              Peace guys,

                              I think the way i see this is that if God truly is omnipresent, then God has to be EVERYWHERE. Now I'm in 2 minds if hell is a physical place or an allegory, but I believe that as humans, since we are not a fan of abstract items and need physical descriptions (metaphors, similies, personification etc) to actually get a good picture of things, I feel God does this for our own benefit. The "throne" is nothing physical, and as someone else stated on here, it represents sovereignty. With "kaaba", obviously I do not believe the actual literal meaning of "My House" but any place where God is served without any idols or partners comes under this description of being the house. Anyway... before I side track, God is everywhere, and in my opinion if God created the heavens, Earth, hell, Jupiter or wherever, then God is (will be, for those who believe hell hasn't been made yet.. however I am not in agreement with this but not entirely studied it deeply yet either) present, however lets also remember that God is self-sufficient and is entirely unaffected by such things as pain etc etc. In regards also to the fact that God is closer to you than your jugular vein, I read a good article once

                              http//free-minds.org/god-who-dwells-our-hearts

                              In my opinion, the fact that God tells us that it is closer to us than our jugular vein is merely implying and demonstrating just how near God is to us. In fact God is so "near" that there is no GAP that God leaves. When I was a kid i used to think stuff like "ooo the air I breathe contains God"... I was young... but if God is everywhere, then God is present in the smallest of smallest of particles, Quarks, whatever wherever however. I hope i'm not confusing people with my view. Up until April I never thought TOO deeply into these kind of things.

                              Peace peace

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • S Offline
                                S Offline
                                StopS
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #81

                                Peace StopS.

                                Qoran says Hell does not exist yet?

                                It will be created when judgement comes. At the end of this" Life".

                                Peace.

                                Ah, then this is my mistake. I thought hell was where satan lived and it thus existed.

                                I also saw 224 "guard yourselves against the fire prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is of men and stones" meaning it is already prepared.

                                What in your opinion does "At the end of this" Life"." mean? All life? End of the Universe?
                                Do you think this experiment is considered a success or a failure, if only 20% of the human race follows the rules?
                                If judgment day is over and the Universe has disappeared, do you think there will be another Universe with a planet with people like us who are supposed to worship the same creator? Will everything be repeated?

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • G Offline
                                  G Offline
                                  good_logic
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #82

                                  Peace StopS.

                                  Satan is not in Hell yet, according to Qoran. Hell (the 8th universe ) will be created when your evidence arrives. The Lord Himself, with the Angels. All your questions will be answered.That is if you have not managed to answer some of them by then.

                                  224 If you cannot do this - and you can never do this - then beware of the Hellfire, whose fuel is people and rocks; it awaits the disbelievers.

                                  224 Says it awaits them. ie after judgement.

                                  Peace.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • H Offline
                                    H Offline
                                    hawk99
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #83

                                    If, as you say, omnipresence is a fact, then how can a human be closer or further away?

                                    Peace Stop S,

                                    To GOD belongs the east and the west; wherever you go there will be the presence of GOD. GOD is Omnipresent, Omniscient.

                                    The question is not rather God is omnipresent because the Quran says it is, so therefore it is so.
                                    The problem being only limited human understanding.

                                    I was just thinking that a definition would be helpful in defining God according to Islam.
                                    Do I need to define Omnipresence again? Please use your intelligence.

                                    O0

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • S Offline
                                      S Offline
                                      StopS
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #84

                                      Peace StopS.

                                      Satan is not in Hell yet, according to Qoran. Hell (the 8th universe ) will be created when your evidence arrives. The Lord Himself, with the Angels. All your questions will be answered.That is if you have not managed to answer some of them by then.

                                      224 If you cannot do this - and you can never do this - then beware of the Hellfire, whose fuel is people and rocks; it awaits the disbelievers.

                                      224 Says it awaits them. ie after judgement.

                                      Peace.

                                      This is my problem I don't see the after judgment, just the "it awaits", which means it is already existent.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • S Offline
                                        S Offline
                                        StopS
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #85

                                        Peace Stop S,

                                        To GOD belongs the east and the west; wherever you go there will be the presence of GOD. GOD is Omnipresent, Omniscient.

                                        The question is not rather God is omnipresent because the Quran says it is, so therefore it is so.
                                        The problem being only limited human understanding.

                                        I was just thinking that a definition would be helpful in defining God according to Islam.
                                        Do I need to define Omnipresence again? Please use your intelligence.

                                        O0

                                        You hit the problem on the head if I use my intelligence, omnipresent, it means everywhere. If omnipresent is everywhere, how can anything or anyone be closer or further away from everywhere?
                                        If I live in the West, lets say Sydney. I move further West, let's say Perth. Am I closer or further away? I move further West to Durban. Am I further away or closer? It makes no difference, does it?

                                        So then how can I be closer if I ascend a mountain? Can you explain that, please?

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • S Offline
                                          S Offline
                                          sushi1992
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #86

                                          This is my problem I don't see the after judgment, just the "it awaits", which means it is already existent.

                                          Agreed. Also StopS did you check my reply on the end of the last page?

                                          peace

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users