Nature of Allah vs Nature of us
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We are told to not associate anything with Allah. By associating things with Allah, we'd per definition create false images of Allah, and thus move away from reality, into delusion... away from Allah, into misery.
Now, if we should not associate anything with Allah, because this creates false images of reality, then perhaps we should ALSO not associate "anything" with ourselves. Often we associate very fleeting things with ourselves. "Who are you?".. "I'm a doctor, I'm a driver, I'm a this-or-that-profession, I'm a teen, I'm middle aged, I'm retired, I'm an athlete, I'm crippled, I'm a successful entrepreneur, I'm a mother, I'm a christian, I'm a muslim..". We associate things temporary with ourselves that are not our REAL selves. We derive our identity from all sorts of things in our life, things that can change at any moment. So, perhaps we don't even understand ourselves. Wouldn't this also be very important in the pursuit of increased understanding, truth and reality. Perhaps we are having very twisted and false images about ourselves, which makes is difficult to grasp further reality. I've never heard to approach spoken of in religious contexts before.If anyone would like to share what they remember of what the quran says about OUR real identity, then I'd be grateful. It must be there, somewhere in the quran... perhaps overlooked or misunderstood...
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Peace
7172 When your Lord took from the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.
We are servants of God .
Peace
Abdullah
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We are body and soul, body has its needs (like eating, which is a handicap really )), and the soul has its own needs, too. Now, the real person is the soul, the real you is the soul, which is part of God, since God created man in His own image, which is, of course, invisible. Body serves as a vehicle for the soul during this life interim that is our chance to redeem ourselves.
Now, it is far much more important to nourish the soul with the five daily Contact prayers (Salat), with fasting, and reading and studying the Qur'an, but most people devote themselves to the vehicle, satisfying the needs of the body, which include food, shelter, job, money, position etc.
It is important to rearrange the priorities in this perspective.
Nourishing the soul and living through worship of God alone is far better.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5xfl7ovMNE&feature=relmfu
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H5RFGzbHwQ&feature=relmfuI find the title of the thread somewhat wrong. There is no nature of Allah, He is all, including the nature of anything, including him creating "the nature of us".
The title would be better if it would suggest the dichotomy between our identification with the body or our identification with the real us, the soul which is part of God.Shabat shalom.
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We are body and soul, body has its needs (like eating, which is a handicap really ), and the soul has its own needs, too. Now, the real person is the soul, the real you is the soul, which is part of God, since God created man in His own image, which is, of course, invisible. Body serves as a vehicle for the soul during this life interim that is our chance to redeem ourselves.
Now, it is far much more important to nourish the soul with the five daily Contact prayers (Salat), with fasting, and reading and studying the Qur'an, but most people devote themselves to the vehicle, satisfying the needs of the body, which include food, shelter, job, money, position etc.
It is important to rearrange the priorities in this perspective.
Nourishing the soul and living through worship of God alone is far better.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5xfl7ovMNE&feature=relmfu
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H5RFGzbHwQ&feature=relmfuI find the title of the thread somewhat wrong. There is no nature of Allah, He is all, including the nature of anything, including him creating "the nature of us".
The title would be better if it would suggest the dichotomy between our identification with the body or our identification with the real us, the soul which is part of God.Shabat shalom.
Thanks for feedback and thoughts.
I was going one step further, in not only seeing it as identification with the body vs the soul, but rather identification with illusion vs reality. To me, what you call body, I would include with that many other things of this world, like emotions, memories, professions, skills, opinions, affiliations, creed, likes-and-dislikes, physical attributes, experiences etc. These are often used to form ones identity, but they are no more real than the body. So what are we ACTUALLY behind all this? We often call it the soul. What is the soul? How do we get to know the soul? Can we feel it beyond our emotions? Fleeting things of this world would be the illusion, while the permanent us, the soul, would be part of reality, which is always whole... but unfortunately mostly buried behind and obscured by the controlled chaos of the mind.Peace
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Peace.
Many people assert that the "true" self, which is covered by the body and soul, is actually Allah (God) himself. This concept is relayed very heavily in ancient Egyptian (Khemetic) and Hindu religious ideologies and scriptures. The Qur'aan doesn't speak on this directly, but it implies it in certain places. For example, the Qur'aan explicitly states that to bow or prostrate to anyone or anything other than God is idolatry. Allah alone is recognized as the possessor of power. However, in the story of the creation of man, the angels are told to bow (or prostrate) before Adam. The importance of this is emphasized in the Qur'aan, to the extent that the one who refused to bow (e.g. Iblis) was actually cast out forever. In a sense, it was as if he'd refused to bow down to God himself, and he was subsequently punished for it!
Adam, who represents man, was depicted in the Qur'aan as God's vicegerent, representative or successor. Therefore, in a philosophical sense, he can be viewed as "God on Earth". The refusal to bow down before him was an example of idolatry, in the scriptural sense, since Iblis refused to recognize man's (God's) supremacy. In a basic sense, this can be interpreted as meaning that, due to the spirit of Allah inhabiting man, when man reaches a particular state of enlightenment and elevation, he becomes a living representation of God himself.
The concept of perfected man being a physical representation of Allah (God), and therefore a God on Earth, is also depicted in the Bible, to the extent that humans are called "Gods" by God himself (Psalms 826), who is characterized as the supreme one. It's also relayed in the symbology involving man being made in God's image. The Qur'aan also states that the angels, and forces of nature, are subservient to man, which is another example of why they (e.g. angels) were required to submit to him.
Is God a man? Perhaps. In the story of Abraham, he condemned the people of his city, asserting that they were idol worshippers. His justification of this was by his statements regarding their deities' lack of power they had eyes but couldn't see, ears but couldn't hear, mouths but couldn't speak, and arms but couldn't save. Man, meaning humanity, has these features, and he's capable of doing all of the said things. Why? Because he's the representative (and representation) of God. Just as the sun provides an example of the brightness and glory of God, so perfected man's strength, power, intelligence and characteristics give us a depiction ("shadow" of these qualities present in Allah to their highest degrees.
That's my perspective...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Thank you @Ahmad Bilal for your excellent post!
I agree mostly, and I think that our soul is a piece of God in us, but we are not gods no matter how enlightened a human being may become...
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Peace, GODsubmitter.
You said,
I think that our soul is a piece of God in us, but we are not gods no matter how enlightened a human being may become...
How exactly do you define the word "god"? The separation between the terms "God" and "god" (which are actually the same word; one is merely used in the proper sense) is the designation of one as being above another. For example, a "god" can generally be recognized as any person who possesses God's qualities on a limited scale. "God", on the other hand, is identified as the supreme one - the highest "god". Do you disagree?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Sorry @Bilal, I am not too good in philosophy or intellectual speculations.
I think God is running everything.
There is a piece of God in us.Peace
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Now, if we should not associate anything with Allah, because this creates false images of reality, then perhaps we should ALSO not associate "anything" with ourselves. Often we associate very fleeting things with ourselves. "Who are you?".. "I'm a doctor, I'm a driver, I'm a this-or-that-profession, I'm a teen, I'm middle aged, I'm retired, I'm an athlete, I'm crippled, I'm a successful entrepreneur, I'm a mother, I'm a christian, I'm a muslim..". We associate things temporary with ourselves that are not our REAL selves. We derive our identity from all sorts of things in our life, things that can change at any moment. So, perhaps we don't even understand ourselves. Wouldn't this also be very important in the pursuit of increased understanding, truth and reality. Perhaps we are having very twisted and false images about ourselves, which makes is difficult to grasp further reality. I've never heard to approach spoken of in religious contexts before.
If anyone would like to share what they remember of what the quran says about OUR real identity, then I'd be grateful. It must be there, somewhere in the quran... perhaps overlooked or misunderstood...
Peace Zulf,
I personally don't agree that a piece of God is inside of us or whatever. I have this opinion because we were made with truth. We are not truth manifested. God is. Also, about the malaika bowing down to Adam; the command was from God. Adam did not say "Hey guys, bow down to me." No. Neither did Muhammad say "Hey guys. Bow down to me." God told us to follow the messenger just like He told the malaika to bow down to humanity; therefore, by hearing and obeying mankind, the malaika are consequently hearing and obeying God JUST LIKE when we hear and obey the messenger, we are consequently hearing and obeying God.
So as for the nature of Adam
727 O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; removing from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not acknowledge.
726 O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to alleviate your sin, as well as feathers; and the garment of righteousness is the best. That is from God's signs, perhaps they will remember.
1770 And We have honored the Children of Adam and carried them in the land and the sea, and We have provided for them of the good things, and We have preferred them over many of those We created in a marked preference.
All I can really find in the Quran indicating our own nature is the story of Adam itself. The devil removed Adam's garments (mind you, the garment of righteousness is best) and yet the Children of Adam are the successors on Earth, preferred over many other creations.
We are to wear the garment of righteousness - that is best. Now check this out
7456 And none will remember except if God wills. He is the source of righteousness and the source of forgiveness.
See how we cannot be God or have a piece of God in us? We are told to wear a garment of righteousness (Basically enjoining righteousness) so that if we do not, we are instead enjoining evil/falsehood.
In that case, if our garment is to be righteousness, and this seems like this is an indicator of what kind of temperament we should have, then I would think that labeling ourselves would not matter indeed. Labels in this case would serve no purpose whatsoever. Did I make sense at all???
Peace! yay
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Peace, GODsubmitter.
I think God is running everything.
There is a piece of God in us.If God is "running everything", then it can generally be determined that he's the cause of the good AND bad things. He's the reason why people do good things, and he's also the reason why people do bad, horrendous things. And, based on this premise, it's totally unjustified for him to throw ANYONE into hell, since he's responsible and in control of all of their actions... If Allah (God) is just and merciful, then he can't be in control of everything.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Hello @ Bilal,
As I said earlier, I am not into philosophy or intellectual speculations.
God created Iblees as well, so of course God is the creator of both good and bad which are a dichotomy only for the feeble human mind, but not in relativity-driven objective reality which we cannot perceive, because a human simply doesn't have enough neurons to do that, same as a monkey has not sufficient neurons to play chess!
Don't you see that there is God even at the bottom of the devil's heart?Well, that's for sure God is running everything! Hell is not created yet, but disbelievers will go there by their own choice, they are just choosing to do so. Hell is a sort of metaphor, as well as Paradise is, and you cannot force anyone into the Paradise, can you?
The whole topic is rather simple, isn't it one is either a believer or a disbeliever!
I simply cannot understand why fuss so much about it all?