A few questions about the words of the quran

[marie]

"Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem" is not the first word of each sura. Sura At Tauba is correct. The rest of the 113 suras must also be that way. I believe Bismillah Hirrahmanir Raheem is not part of The Book. Rather it is the First Word Of Al Quran.

Allah knows best, maybe you are right but I think your argument is not decisive.

peace

[zenje]

I believe Bismillah Hirrahmanir Raheem is not part of The Book. Rather it is the First Word Of Al Quran.

I agree with this. It is probably encouraged to start any verse or chapter with those words, but it is not part of the book, i.e. except for 11. )

[Ansar]

"Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem" is not the first word of each sura. Sura At Tauba is correct. The rest of the 113 suras must also be that way. I believe Bismillah Hirrahmanir Raheem is not part of The Book. Rather it is the First Word Of Al Quran.

drfazl

Thank you for your answer. So you and Zenje think that Bismillah is not part of the book...

How does this rhyme with the preservation of the quran? How come there is a disagreement amongst the free-minders whether bismillah (in all beginning soora's)is a part of the book?

[drfazl]

Thank you for your answer. So you and Zenje think that Bismillah is not part of the book... How does this rhyme with the preservation of the quran?

How come there is a disagreement amongst the free-minders whether bismillah (in all beginning soora's)is a part of the book?

bro ansar,

Do you speak of Quran? Or about the Book? They are not the same. The Book that we have with us with the verses is the Key to Quran that which is being Preserved and well Guarded in Luvhul Mahful. Bismilla is not the part of the Book! We are yet to discuss on Quran as to what it is ? and where it is at present ? and who to "Quran" is given ?

drfazl

[marie]

Peace all,

Personally, I do not grant any importance to the verses numbers, I started every reading by Bismillah Hirrahmanir Raheem after Aoozu Billahi Minash shaitaanir Rajeem.

I think every verse is reavealed to the prophet through the holy Spirit in the name of the God. Like brother Zein, I think it is a good thing to start every reading in His name.
When I read the quran, I forget the numbers of the verses to see clearly the succession of the ideas.

If the chronological order is true, the chapter 96 is the first chapter of the quran and the chapter 1 is the fifth chapter and the chapter 9 is the thirteenth cent chapter.

Allah knows best

Marie

[Tony]

Salam all

Sometimes when I listen to the news and when the anchorman is absent and a substitute speaks, he usually says

"In behalf of Larry King..."

It means that he is a representative of Larry King.

Would this be a correct analogy of "In the name of God Most Gracious, Most Merciful" as the words of the messenger as a representative of God?

Peace,
Tony

[marie]

Salam Tony, all,

Salam all

Sometimes when I listen to the news and when the anchorman is absent and a substitute speaks, he usually says

"In behalf of Larry King..."

It means that he is a representative of Larry King.

Would this be a correct analogy of "In the name of God Most Gracious, Most Merciful" as the words of the messenger as a representative of God?

Peace,
Tony

You are correct, I think it could be applied in of other positions. Personally when I undertake an action, a work I say bismi Allahi.

1141. He said ?Climb inside, in the name of the God shall be its sailing and its anchorage. My Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.?
      Waqala irkaboo feeha bismi Allahi majraha wamursaha inna rabbeelaghafoorun raheemun

Marie

[Tony]

Salam Tony, all,

Salam all

Sometimes when I listen to the news and when the anchorman is absent and a substitute speaks, he usually says

"In behalf of Larry King..."

It means that he is a representative of Larry King.

Would this be a correct analogy of "In the name of God Most Gracious, Most Merciful" as the words of the messenger as a representative of God?

Peace,
Tony

You are correct, I think it could be applied in of other positions. Personally when I undertake an action, a work I say bismi Allahi.

1141. He said ?Climb inside, in the name of the God shall be its sailing and its anchorage. My Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.?
      Waqala irkaboo feeha bismi Allahi majraha wamursaha inna rabbeelaghafoorun raheemun

Marie

Any thoughts on why the basmallah was absent in Surah 9? Wasn't it spoken in behalf of God?

[drfazl]

Dear all, Tony

When you say in the name of Allah, you are not a substitute but representative, the vicegerant of Allah. You, In the name of Allah, command the Universe for they are made subservient to you. You ascend the Higher Ways of your Lord and may you be seated in the throne of honor with Allah. This is the state of Mi'araj.

054055
In the seat of honor with a most Powerful King.

[drfazl]

Why Sura Tauba does not have Bismillah?

The whole Sura is an admonition and warning that we seek Allah's forgiveness for our being mushriks, kafirs, munafiqs, mufsids and seek His Guidance and Mercy with repentance so that we be conducted in the Straight Path. We haven't yet started ascending in the path of Allah towards Mi'araj, so that the worlds obey you, when you command at them in the name of Allah.

Further, Bismillah is not he first verse of each sura. It is Aoozu Billahi Minash Shaitanir Rajeem instead.

[marie]

Any thoughts on why the basmallah was absent in Surah 9? Wasn't it spoken in behalf of God?

I think the whole quran is spoken in behalf of the God, if Basmallah is the first verse of the chapter 1, the problem is solved. One start the reading only by "Aoozu Billahi Minash Shaitanir Rajeem" without basmalah for chapter 2 until chapter 114.

I also think it is not wrong if one start the reading by the two formulas for the chapters 2-----> 114.

Allah knows best

[drfazl]

Bismilla Hirrahmanir Raheem is never the first verse of any sura from sura 1 through to sura 114. It is sunni handiwork

"In the Name of Allah, All Glory Be To Allah the Lord of The Worlds" it sounds odd. At least if the verse, " All Glory Be To Allah " starts with a "SAY" before it. Then In The Name Of Allah as the first sentence may have the full sense.

[marie]

Personnaly when I say Bismilla Hirrahmanir Raheem before reading the quran that doesn't mean I consider it as the first verse.

I say it when I start a study for ex

[Ansar]

Any thoughts on why the basmallah was absent in Surah 9? Wasn't it spoken in behalf of God?

You know thats an interesting religious question. The quran is the only religious source right? Or not?

[Ansar]

bro ansar,

Do you speak of Quran? Or about the Book? They are not the same. The Book that we have with us with the verses is the Key to Quran that which is being Preserved and well Guarded in Luvhul Mahful. Bismilla is not the part of the Book! We are yet to discuss on Quran as to what it is ? and where it is at present ? and who to "Quran" is given ?

drfazl

Well, for me its the same.

But according to you, you say the book we have with us do not contain the revealed words of the quran? In all quranic books you will see bismillah mentioned before the surah (except at-taubah). But now you say its not a revealed part from Allah.

Am i right?