Enlightment
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Excellent question. I have touched on this before and have not received an answer. Maybe this time I will be more lucky. I'd like to expand if I may.
How do followers understand the Koran? Are Adam and Eve to be taken as real people who had children and procreated to determine the lineage for all mankind?
Biology teaches us that the male is a derivative of the female form. We humans today know about the SRY gene activating testosterone which activate the conversion of the Wolffian ducts to form male sex organs. From the female form. So we know that "Eve" is created before "Adam".How do people here respond to these 2 questions?
Why do you think so?
It could be that God created Adam and Eve and they didn't go through the natural modern day reproduction process to be created, so the SRY gene is irrelevant.
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StopS,
Case in point
How do followers understand the Koran? Are Adam and Eve to be taken as real people who had children and procreated to determine the lineage for all mankind?
Biology teaches us that the male is a derivative of the female form. We humans today know about the SRY gene activating testosterone which activate the conversion of the Wolffian ducts to form male sex organs. From the female form. So we know that "Eve" is created before "Adam".If you had bothered to read Quran, you would not find this "eve" character anywhere. And you would have found the answer to your latter question
He is the One who created you from one soul (Arabic nafs, feminine), and He made from it its mate (masculine) to reside with...
How many times do you have to be told that the vast majority of people here do not follow a Traditional Islam, yet you repeatedly ask questions from that angle and assume we hold this view. Read Quran if you want to find out what's actually in it.
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Selam Wakas,
I joined this site in a view of that everyone can put forward their opinions and questions in order to enrich their knowledge and indeed exchange ideas without any fear of resentment or slam the door on their face! Now I am in the opinion that it is not the case! I just read your response to stopS which your respond was rather off putting and reminds me as though you are a member of POLITBURO in a Communist regime!? StopS revealed quite reasonable opinion of his. Your answer was not helpful or constructive nor helpful to anyone for that matter. You used the word of 'WE' do not hold the view of this or that! Who is WE? Since you can talk on behalf of FREE MINDS than in my opinion I am in the wrong place to have FREE discussions,debates or exchange ideas for that matter. By the way, you are stated that you are not the followers of traditional Islam, it is well and good but remember traditional Islam in a sense that full of HADITHS but not completely wrong or dismissable. I posted a question a few days ago, the answers I got from the members likes of mmkhan very useful and enlightening. If you don't mind please look at my post and state your knowledge. But not the one you've responded to stopS please by saying ''Read The QURAN'' Thank you for listening.
Be in peace with yourself and with everyone.
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Salaam ZP,
Actually, my reply to StopS is helpful (as it directly provided info about what he was asking), but you may disagree with the manner it was presented.
Feel free to read StopS' posts in the forum thus far, then determine what response seems suitable etc. -
I have found a rather simple answer based on a single nuance.
According to history we have "Y-Chromosomal Adam", the earliest common male ancestor, and "Mitochondrial Eve", the earliest common female ancestor, who shall be referred to as Adam and Eve herein.
The nuance is that Eve according to history has been detected to be at least 200,000 years old while Adam is 142,000 years old at least. The solution only works so long as Eve comes sufficient generations before Adam.
Now biology is certainly not my strongest point so bear with me. In science we differentiate two very closely related organisms as species when it is the case that the offspring of one cannot reproduce with the offspring of the other, with the children explicitly being fertile. So for example tigers are a different species to lions despite how close they are; and they can have offspring (tigons/ligers) but they will never be fertile.
Considering Eve
The fact that Eve comes before Adam renders the questionable nature of sexual relationships of our earliest shared ancestors to be a null point. If Eve came before Adam then Adam was a descendant of her, as was every human male at the time (all humanity living today came from that single womb).In Eve's time, there would be many mothers and many fathers. So there was no question of incest/questionable relations back then. The offspring of the other females of the time simply failed to continue reproducing or their lineages died out by the time we reached Adam. So all that would have been left is a large varied male/female population all originating from that womb of Eve. Or to be pedantic, those other lineages simply are irrelevant for this question, they need not have died out.
Considering Adam
Then the second stage is that an-Nas is defined in the Quran explicitly as beginning with Y-Chromosomal Adam. The quran holds the male lineage to be the means of distinction of species. So as far as God is concerned, "mankind" or "homo sapiens" or "an-Nas" or "bani Adam" all begins with Y-Chromosomal Adam. Both he and his wife probably came from the womb of Eve. His children married males and females that came from the womb of Eve, thus the mDNA was not lost.There was no danger of inbreeding, incest or anything questionable because ample generations would have passed between Eve and Adam so as to create a lot of genetic variety in the male lineages, out of which specifically Adam's lineage was chosen by God. Now, there would be no female genetic closeness either because we consider Mitochondrial Eve from a genetic signature, the mDNA may change but her signature remains. So there is ample variety on both the male and female sides to prevent any inbreeding/genetic defects.
Maybe other male lineages equally competing for the position of "Y-Chromosomal Adam" existed, many of them at that. Regardless of this, their male DNA did not continue in a long chain until today, thus they died out, became extinct. Leaving on Earth, the children only of Mitochondrial Eve, and of those children, a specific group, those who came from Y-Chromosomal Adam, to become the new successor on its surface.
Conclusion
So the solution is this We have Adam & his wife in the garden, his wife who is NOT called Eve in this post nor anywhere in the quran! Adam & his wife had children who married the existing human children of their fellow beings at the time. All the male lineages competing with Adam died out - meaning all the surviving female children paired up with Adam's male descendants. Sounds like Adam may not have had any daughters, or his daughters simply did not have any offspring.
The female lineage was ancient and shared by all anyway because all humans alive at that point of time, in this specific context of the ancestry of bani Adam, all shared the same mitochondrial origin.Thus the orgination process of mankind
0.) Boom, universe, stars, nebulae, solar system, Earth, THWACK, Earth and moon, wizzzzzzz, creatures, THWACK, no more dinosaurs, HOO HOO HAA HAAA, apes
1.) Create prototype human womb (i.e. archetypal female DNA imprint)
2.) Multiply over and over again until enough genetic variety is made from this human womb
3.) Find prototype male DNA (i.e. archetypal male DNA imprint)
4.) Erase all non human-specific DNA whether male or female
5.) ???
6.) Prophetspeace
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I don't understand the progression from apes to Mitochondrial Eve to Y-chromosomal Adam. When you say "create prototype human womb" do you mean evolved? Maybe I'm missing something, but did Eve procreate with a non-human male? And the Y-chromosome came from him?
Sorry if you already explained it, but im confused.
Salaam.
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Peace be upon you too )
Well keep in mind first and foremost that this is a hypothetical explanation. It is what makes most sense to me at present as if God is true (duh) then both the quranic narrative AND the scientific narrative must find a critical point of intersection in Y-chromosomal Adam. There can be no violating this rule. Some reject evolution and they are blind to the fact that our lineages already last thousands of years long, it is easy to God to keep a lineage going over billions of years. Likewise evolutionists might reject the idea of Adam altogether but the science proves that yes, there definitely is an Adam who is the common father of all humanity the question is, when did this Adam actually live on Earth?
Then basically to answer your question, essentially we are of two genetic essences; the male and the female. The female essence (expressed in mitochondria) appears to be much older than the male essence. So yes I mean "evolved", as far as I see it there is no other way and how else would 2920 make sense?
And no we cannot even call Eve "human", humanoid rather or more pedantically pre-human. This is where we confuse English terms with Arabic terms. If we define human == an-nas, an-nas is of course only bani Adam, the children of Y-chromosomal Adam. Then anything before that is not quite "human". So neither Eve nor anyone she procreated with were human in this sense. Eve came thousands of years before Adam. Adam was a descendant of Mitochondrial Eve. Hope that clarifies.
peace
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Science is a materialistic subject whose notion is that it shall see everything through the naked eyes to believe the existence of anything. But Quran is the hidden secret of the universal creation and the continuing life force that keep manifesting as bringing forth the death from the living; and the living from the dead. Thus science is dunce and moronic; it has to develop into maturity as long as the world lives; yet it stays billions of years way behind the manifest Truth. They say the world was created by a Big-Bang. Sad enough for the half hearted science, if only it looks into any creation of nature, it has always been a silent growth with absolute absence of sound coming into existence bearing its fruits be it our creation in the wombs; or the vegetation or the trees; or the gathering of clouds; or the breeze. On the contrary, when there is a bang or boom it spells destruction. Science is nasty, when they believe the world came into being with a big-bang; they talk about destruction with their banging theories and not of the creation.
The medical science is in the kindergarten level; it does not know what life is and cannot produce a life in their laboratories, let alone it speaking of how the human beings are created. Throw SRY stories to dust bin and seek from Allah the wisdom of human entry and existence. Whoever has knowledge in this unseen wisdom can put in their proof here. But surely the moronic medical science is out of purview.
Who is Adam? Is it the creation of one man? Or is the mankind the first cropping up of the being from every place on earth? Or a single man and woman pushed down on to the earth from the heavenly skies above? Or who is Adam, the single One Soul as the conscience, the sole embodiment of the entire mankind or purely the physical material and bodily matters?
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"Adam" is the first Primate which felt ashamed of his own penis.
A unique characteristic of homo sapiens not found anywhere within other species on planet earth, which we inherited from our parent/ancestor line, from that point in time.And it seems the gentleman below did not changed much from "Adam".
Just in case you're wondering how "Adam" might looks like..http//cache.virtualtourist.com/4/3958064-Kotekas_Papua_Province.jpg
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Science is a materialistic subject whose notion is that it shall see everything through the naked eyes to believe the existence of anything. But Quran is the hidden secret of the universal creation and the continuing life force that keep manifesting as bringing forth the death from the living; and the living from the dead. Thus science is dunce and moronic; it has to develop into maturity as long as the world lives; yet it stays billions of years way behind the manifest Truth. They say the world was created by a Big-Bang. Sad enough for the half hearted science, if only it looks into any creation of nature, it has always been a silent growth with absolute absence of sound coming into existence bearing its fruits be it our creation in the wombs; or the vegetation or the trees; or the gathering of clouds; or the breeze. On the contrary, when there is a bang or boom it spells destruction. Science is nasty, when they believe the world came into being with a big-bang; they talk about destruction with their banging theories and not of the creation.
The medical science is in the kindergarten level; it does not know what life is and cannot produce a life in their laboratories, let alone it speaking of how the human beings are created. Throw SRY stories to dust bin and seek from Allah the wisdom of human entry and existence. Whoever has knowledge in this unseen wisdom can put in their proof here. But surely the moronic medical science is out of purview.
Who is Adam? Is it the creation of one man? Or is the mankind the first cropping up of the being from every place on earth? Or a single man and woman pushed down on to the earth from the heavenly skies above? Or who is Adam, the single One Soul as the conscience, the sole embodiment of the entire mankind or purely the physical material and bodily matters?
.Science is a METHODOLOGY and Quran is a BOOK.
I failed to understand why you compare two things which are on completely different domain??Science is great at TESTING HYPOTHESIS / IDEA thus it's a great tool to FIND FALSEHOOD / FALLACY.
Science is NEITHER moronic or genius, as it's a METHODOLOGY, it's those who (claimed) to apply such methodology who are either moronic or genius.
Science is a great methodology to exercise / improve the society's critical thinking ability or in other words it takes 'certain extent' of critical thinking ability to exercise scientific methodology properly.
The opposite of science is DOGMATIC methodology..
DOGMATIC methodology is great at BRAINWASHING the society thus it's a great tool to CONTROL THE PEOPLE, a favorite tool especially among politicians. (Sultan, King, Caliph, Dictator etc..)Within DOGMATIC society, questioning certain ideas is forbidden, critical thinking is discouraged and those who dare to do so shall face a grievous penalty.
Salam / Peace
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"Adam" is the first Primate which felt ashamed of his own penis.
A unique characteristic of homo sapiens not found anywhere within other species on planet earth, which we inherited from our parent/ancestor line, from that point in time.And it seems the gentleman below did not changed much from "Adam".
Just in case you're wondering how "Adam" might looks like..http//cache.virtualtourist.com/4/3958064-Kotekas_Papua_Province.jpg
Selam jafar,
It is poetically well written post. However what kind of evidence you have that as you stated in your post that Adam was a shame of his penis? God would not create anything that would make his servants to be a shamed of.Also you have stated that Homo sapiens not found anywhere within other species on planet earth, which we inherited from our parent/ancestors line, from that POINT IN TIME! What POINT IN TIME you are referring to?
Peace -
Science is a METHODOLOGY and Quran is a BOOK.
I failed to understand why you compare two things which are on completely different domain??Science is great at TESTING HYPOTHESIS / IDEA thus it's a great tool to FIND FALSEHOOD / FALLACY.
Science is NEITHER moronic or genius, as it's a METHODOLOGY, it's those who (claimed) to apply such methodology who are either moronic or genius.
Science is a great methodology to exercise / improve the society's critical thinking ability or in other words it takes 'certain extent' of critical thinking ability to exercise scientific methodology properly.
The opposite of science is DOGMATIC methodology..
DOGMATIC methodology is great at BRAINWASHING the society thus it's a great tool to CONTROL THE PEOPLE, a favorite tool especially among politicians. (Sultan, King, Caliph, Dictator etc..)Within DOGMATIC society, questioning certain ideas is forbidden, critical thinking is discouraged and those who dare to do so shall face a grievous penalty.
Salam / Peace
Does science test the hypotheses or the mind power tests the 'science' itself. For example mind says, 'By God, patience is the greatest weapon' to ward off all-evil and to maintain peace and tranquillity. What is said here is the claim of those who believe in the Truth. The truth is tested by the time and not by any methodology. By what methodology you will prove God, Patience, Peace, Tranquillity, Time, Truth etc.
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Yep, I understood IAMOP. Thank you.
Salaam.
