Open minded and tolerant - what does it mean?
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Peace Farida.
Please relax. Look on the bright side like you advise others to.
This is a general discussion.
Do not go overboard.
Peace.
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Being open minded and tolerant (in my perspective) means not freaking out or attacking someone just because they have a radically different viewpoint to yours. This principle can be extended as long as the person concerned does not harm other people in society.
In case of Rashad Khalifa, I think we should be tolerant towards him.
In case of Jim Jones, I think he can be compared to al qaeda terrorists who lead a cult towards a violent objective (which harms others). So, it should not be tolerated.
Ok - lets take Sunni beliefs for instance. There are Hadiths promoting sexual abuse in marriage and amongst other things. Should we then respect and tolerate such beliefs and have an open mind simply because it is worded in religious terms? Are we to have an open mind about abuse - may it be emotional, psychological, physical, sexual? What I find so prevalent amongst religious groups is oppression, suppression and abuse of different forms thought of as being part of the religious beliefs.
I see emotional abuse here in this forum yet we seem too oblivious to it or accepting of it. I think that in wanting and needing to be open minded and respecting other views, we have lost sight of our moral duty and obligation to fight oppression and stop abuse.
We should be tolerant to such beliefs because the wife can take the matter to court if she is displeased. Many parts of the world does not view those as abuse eg. Wive(s) in Saudi Arabia take pride in their husband.
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Being open minded and tolerant (in my perspective) means not freaking out or attacking someone just because they have a radically different viewpoint to yours. This principle can be extended as long as the person concerned does not harm other people in society.
In case of Rashad Khalifa, I think we should be tolerant towards him.
In case of Jim Jones, I think he can be compared to al qaeda terrorists who lead a cult towards a violent objective (which harms others). So, it should not be tolerated.
Ok - lets take Sunni beliefs for instance. There are Hadiths promoting sexual abuse in marriage and amongst other things. Should we then respect and tolerate such beliefs and have an open mind simply because it is worded in religious terms? Are we to have an open mind about abuse - may it be emotional, psychological, physical, sexual? What I find so prevalent amongst religious groups is oppression, suppression and abuse of different forms thought of as being part of the religious beliefs.
I see emotional abuse here in this forum yet we seem too oblivious to it or accepting of it. I think that in wanting and needing to be open minded and respecting other views, we have lost sight of our moral duty and obligation to fight oppression and stop abuse.
We should be tolerant to such beliefs because the wife can take the matter to court if she is displeased. Many parts of the world does not view those as abuse eg. Wive(s) in Saudi Arabia take pride in their husband.
Good logic,
I use RK as an example as I think most people here know of him and is a good example of for me to convey my thoughts. I would like to know your thoughts.
Let's say you were also studying under Khalifa with Benjamin Phillips. You had a funny feeling about him. Would you just ignore that feeling? And if you saw somethings about him that were apparent that this guy had some sinister motives, what would you do? Yes, this is where I am getting at. Would you just wait and see what this Benjamin Phillips is really up to? Keep in mind that
God already knows what this imposter was up to. RK had a fatwa. He and others should have been on the lookout and aware that people were after him. Why didn't he take certain precautionary measures? Often times almost always someone has a hunch about someone or something. God is not absent being on the sidelines with a hands off approach watching as we navigate through life with the koran while satan is in tow. But we are all so afraid of judging people, not being haste and being open minded that we often fail to see or understand that there is evil in the world and persons who exploit this about the believers. I was and I thought like that till experiences taught me different.We have become too afraid to call things for what it is. I am sure this Glen Francis who went by the alias Benjamin Phillips felt strongly that he was in the right. If someone tells me that RK is a cult leader, enemy of God and needs to murdered, do I really need to consult the Koran to know that this is wrong? We have the faculty to know that it is wrong. Justifying killing of RK by using the Koran is unconscionable. Justifying murder is sociopathic. All these fatwas that these religious scholars doll out is sick. Let's call things for what they are. There is religious intolerance and then there is sociopathic attitude. Intolerance is wrong but sociopathy is immoral. I don't think people quite see that when talking about religious tolerance.
I don't know if I am conveying my thoughts across. Let me know.
I understand you! Personally I'm not a big fan of this "political correctness" attitude.
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Peace Farida.
Please relax. Look on the bright side like you advise others to.
This is a general discussion.
Do not go overboard.
Peace.
Peace good logic
I can't help thinking of the suffering of Palestinians, when people talk of abuse and abusers and victims. Tell me why can't we bring their plight in our general discussion? Believe me I am looking forward to the bright side of life, not only for Palestinians, but for the whole of humanity insha allaah.
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Peace justamuslim.
I agree with you. We do not call a spade ... a spade. As simple as that.
I think there is " political" and " peer" pressure nowadays that is influencing people.
Also people complain easily and cry "foul" too often. It is called " diving" in football, and the referee gives them a foul.I think tolerance has its limits. Sometimes we have to stand up for what is right. God does not approve of the compromisers. As long as we are just
"O you who believe, you shall be absolutely equitable, and observe God, when you serve as witnesses. Do not be provoked by your conflicts with some people into committing injustice. You shall be absolutely equitable, for it is more righteous. You shall observe God. God is fully Cognizant of everything you do".
Peace.
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Peace justamuslim.
I think tolerance has its limits. Sometimes we have to stand up for what is right. God does not approve of the compromisers. As long as we are just
Peace.
While siting in front of a computer how can one stand up for what is right?
Simply by looking on the bright side of life - Day 5
Life's a counterfeit and when you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's the joke, it's true
You see, it's all a show, keep them laughing as you go
Just remember the last laugh is on you! -
Peace Farida.
Forgive my lack of skills in poetry. My advice to you is be careful, some poetry leads astray
As for the poets, they are followed only by the strayers.
Do you not see that their loyalty shifts according to the situation?
However I can tolerate it.
Peace.
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Shalom Aleikhem,
To tolerate is to put up with it, not to accept it as correct/truth. For example, you could be a Microsoft Windows fan and me a Lunix fan. You let me have my opinion/view that linux is better than windows. I let you have your view/opinion that windows is better than linux. It does not mean, that you accepted Linux's superiorty over Windows, or I accepted Windows's superiority over Linux. This is tolerance.
Not every belief is justifiably good for humanity. It is not possible to stop people from believing in things. However, what is possible is to stop certain beliefs from being promoted or turned into action. Like we did in World War 2. The world's reaction towards Nazi ideologies demonstrate clearly that not all beliefs are to be promoted or turned into action. On a side note, its interesting how you are called a racist Nazi if you agree with Hitler's ideologies and at the same time it is insensitive to speak out against Muslims that basically hold the same ideas about Jews and how to deal with them. Anyways, no matter what your beliefs are, if they harm others, tolerance is not for you. Its actually a pretty simple concept, similar to freedom of speech, which some people confuse with being verbally abusive. For example, verbally abusing a stranger next to you on a Bus and assuming its ok, since you have the right to free speech .
About RK, its sad what happened to him. But its not uncommon for apes that can't reason to resort to violence. And of course we should be tolerant of the "submitters" and their views. There are many followers of RK on this site, including ones that claim to be messenger. As long as they remain the nice people they are now and still treat me with respect, niceness and kindness as they have been doing so far, they deserve the same from me.
And one should not confuse open-mindedness with false equivalence or treating all ideas/beliefs equally. Ideas/Beliefs/ideologies/philosophy/arguments all rise or fall on their own merits. Unless they are justified through reason and evidence, I don't see why one has to treat them the same way they treat validated/justified ideas/beliefs/etc.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
Peace Student of Allah.
Even though I disagree with you sometimes. I agree with what you said in your post.
Nice to hear from you.
Peace.
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Peace Farida.
Forgive my lack of skills in poetry. My advice to you is be careful, some poetry leads astray
As for the poets, they are followed only by the strayers.
Do you not see that their loyalty shifts according to the situation?
However I can tolerate it.
Peace.
And always look on the bright side of life
Always look on the right side of life
Come on Brian, cheer upRead more MONTY PYTHON - ALWAYS LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE LYRICS
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We all know what an open mind is and what tolerance is.
But are there limits and if yes, what are they?As "Student of Allah" quite rightly said whether one modern operating system or the other is better, is a matter of opinion. But what if you start comparing Linux to CP/M, an ancient OS? Then it gets more tricky.
Am I close-minded if I reject the claim that gold will float on water? Am I intolerant? So if we go to extremes we see there are limits. But what are these limits and where are the boundaries?
Is someone who believes there is evidence for the existence of the one god described in the Koran close-minded for rejecting Zeus as a god? Or intolerant?
On the other side of the scale lies a person who accepts each and every god with an open mind and without ever making up their mind. Is making up your mind about something being close-minded or rational? My conclusion is that the boundaries are personal and flexible.
My personal opinion is that the the state of being open-minded is a temporary one, as I look at facts and alternatives and then make up my mind until proven wrong.
I therefore tolerate other views as long as they don't restrict what I have made up my mind on. -
We should be tolerant to such beliefs because the wife can take the matter to court if she is displeased. Many parts of the world does not view those as abuse eg. Wive(s) in Saudi Arabia take pride in their husband.
I understand you! Personally I'm not a big fan of this "political correctness" attitude.
Solomon, I don't agree with you and let me explain
We all know that raping a woman is wrong. Physically restraining a woman using physical force or threats of harm is wrong. When people think about forced sex, they picture physical assault. They do not picture pressure, manipulation (making a woman feel guilty, insulting by calling her names, accusing of being unfaithful if she refuses, withholding affection, emotional threats to seek sex outside, etc) or sleep deprivation.
Muslim men and women are taught that a man owns sex. It is the obligation or duty of a woman to please him having sex when he wants, the way he likes it with little regard or no attention to how she feels or what her needs may be. If her husband is into aggressive degrading sex, doesn't matter how she feels.
Muslim men and women believe that a woman owes a man sex and gives up the right to decline sex. There are hadiths which state that a woman will be cursed by angel all night if she declines sex. The allegation is that it is coming from prophet Muhammed and either coming from God himself or endorsed by God.
Hadiths portray Muhammed as being sexually dominant and powerful. Apparently, he had sex with all of his wives in a day. He was seen as a stud. So sex is about a guy. Being an alpha male. Pleasing a woman not because he is truly caring about her needs and wanting sex to be a mutually satisfying and connected experience but to be able to see himself as a great, an awe-inspiring lover.
Hadiths teach that a man owns sex. Women owes a man sex. Sex is about a man. A woman is a sex object that a man possesses. So a woman who prides in her husband will cover herself head to toe, will cater to her husbands sexual needs when he wants, how often he wants and whatever he wants the way he wants.
This is sexual abuse. When sex is about control, power, dominance, and there is coercion physical and/or emotional, it is abuse. I refer to the book "why does he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men" by Lundy Bancroft. (A lot of what I said are excerpts from this book).
And I refer to the ultimate book, the Koran which does not promote selfishness and coercion - physical or emotional. God promotes peace, mutual respect and compassion in a marriage. And this is what we should promote and when we see abuse, we should identify it and stop it.
Sexual abuse is hard for a woman to talk about let alone take her husband to court. That young Yemeni girl who ran away and went to court asking for divorce because of sexual and physical abuse is an exception.
Just because saudi women don't don't view something as abuse doesn't mean that it is not.
In this climate of political correctness and being culturally sensitive, have we become too afraid to stand up and call things for that they are? We can dance around the issue, explain, rationalize or be defensive but it is what it is. Abuse is abuse. Nothing Islamic about it. And I don't respect or tolerate beliefs that promote abuse especially sexual abuse.