My PERSONAL conclusions about salaat (contact prayer)
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Very good short article confirming, yet again, that there are 5 contact prayers.
I like the ending of the article which reads"...to emphasize that these are only reminders, and the Salat cannot be taught or forced upon people, but it is inspired to people by God as it is stated by God in 2173."
http//journal_of_submission.homestead.com/Ultimate_Mathematics_and__Contact_Prayers.pdf
source
http//journal_of_submission.homestead.com/index.html
(very interesting site) -
http//www.chayas.com/proster.jpg
Bowing, kneeling, yoshev la'areS, qidah & prostration originated in authentic Torah Teachings (the Torah of Moses). It certainly preceded Islam and Christianity. It is still practiced (to some extent) today and is/was retained by a minority of Jews, even during the Middle Ages. And while portions of this original practice may (or may not have) been copied by other religions, anyone familiar with ancient practice knows we still preserve the original method of prostration. In my opinion, a popular return to proper Jewish prostration or qidah, (which brings about focused, meaningful prayer) will result in a greater level of shifa for the Jewish people (and the world). This translates into a greater level of Divine protection (based on concepts in 'The Guide' / Moreh Nevukhim).
Some MidRaShYm (based on Samuel 12 say that the Temple will only be rebuilt in the merit of prostration.
source
http//www.chayas.com/qidah.htm -
It is very interesting the similarity with the salat contact-prayer.
But astonishing distingtion
"Notice that the head (nose) is touching the carpet. Hands are extended, palms flat on the ground. Head is covered by Talith. UNLIKE MUSLIMS, the rear end is pushed as close to the ground as one is able to do (according to one Teshubah of RAMBAM)!!! This also separates us from Muslim practice, which probably took this concept of high-hanging rear ends from ancient-idol worship - which utilized it. Also, you should try to get your thighs as parallel to the ground as is possible. -- RMb"M says "al birkayyim, Qida" which means 'on the knees' (Hlk Tefillah 514). This is our interpretation of the punctuation in this verse. This accords with the ancient version described by our TaNaKh, which clearly calls for sitting on the knees. In our assessment, this also accords with historical testimony out of Yemen. This is what we call the SITTING position referred to as yoshEYv la'araS."
source
http//www.chayas.com/qidah.htm#proc -
Salaam bro you change your pic and never recognize again eheh sorry peace handshake
interesting post and alweyes tought more of prostration like this than with head in ground but in other hand its almost fetus position when you put head on ground and if you do it in middle of nature is way to conect to earth, butt anyway..alweyes thought were in Quran says how this prostration is made, if is a book for mankind..how is not Salawat ritual discribed? i think imop no ritual to be done..
Salawat acording to Ahlal ahdith journal of 1997 that i can find for you, says majority of ulema get in concensous the mean of Sallawat being divine comandements, aqimo aslawat is to establish divine comandments/laws. and rukuu,sujud can have meanings of aproach and finally surender.anyway still searching .. if theres any corporal ritual included in salawat..Quran is constantly called the messagedhikr .. and theres an ayat wich says. those who meditate/ponder on signs laying,sitting or standing.. so Salawat and in fact al surat albakara is where we have many paths you choose to make the words and all as ritual or we start to see the hided meanings of this arabicised rituals..and misconception in translation ..so everybody now strugling to interpret the words of Allah.
sorry for any mistakekeep going knowledge is never enought... sun
SALAAM/SHALOM/PEACE/PAIX/PAZ
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Peace GODsubmitter,
Sorry for intruding on your thread. I am not going to discuss your topic, just say "God bless you for the work you put into this", and just ramble about my own personal jihad.
I still need convincing proof to satisfy my heart regarding 3 or 5 daily prayers and the amount of rakah. Currently I do 5 rakah and the traditional amount of rakah (2 4 4 3 4 which number sequence is divisible by 19).
I also have this odd personal sign in my life, old zipcode that was 64695 (3405*19) and old house number 34B (B (beh) means pray in Swedish).
Despite this I have problems disregarding some arguments calling for 3 daily prayers and 2 rakah only per prayer. It seems these arguments have some basis too.
Sorry for posting here against your wish.
God bless you.
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Peace GODsubmitter,
Sorry for intruding on your thread. I am not going to discuss your topic, just say "God bless you for the work you put into this", and just ramble about my own personal jihad.
I still need convincing proof to satisfy my heart regarding 3 or 5 daily prayers and the amount of rakah. Currently I do 5 rakah and the traditional amount of rakah (2 4 4 3 4 which number sequence is divisible by 19).
I also have this odd personal sign in my life, old zipcode that was 64695 (3405*19) and old house number 34B (B (beh) means pray in Swedish).
Despite this I have problems disregarding some arguments calling for 3 daily prayers and 2 rakah only per prayer. It seems these arguments have some basis too.
Sorry for posting here against your wish.
God bless you.
sun
Thank you brother @Man of Faith for posting, I am very glad that you wrote your words and I am grateful for your appreciation and support.I think, we all need to ponder and examine everything to the best of our abilities, and then implore God, blessed is He, to guide us, and illuminate us with His Wisdom and Light. I often pray to God to erase unuseful and noxious knowledge from my mind, and give me only the useful information and the real, fruitful knowledge for the nourishment of my spirit and soul.
I used to waver, like you, for almost a year, about the arguments for 3 or 5 daily prayers. I think I've read almost everything on that subject I could find on the Internet. I even used to abandon the practice of contact prayers altogether, thinking that the salat was merely a "mental link" as suggested by A. Safar and others...
But then, when I continued to practice them strictly, I became convinced by my own concrete results and the changes it produced in my life, that the 5 daily prayers, performed as taught by late Dr. Rashad Khalifa PhD, are, not only beneficial to overall state of life, spirituality and discipline, but they must be true, due to overwhelming tradition and heritage which can't be a mere coincidence. Further confirmation is its numerical structure as well. Please allow me to stress the importance of performing the contact prayers only the way they are taught by Dr. Khalifa, with the right Shahada and correct wudu, and reciting the Fatiha in Arabic.
http//www.masjidtucson.org/submission/practices/salat/
(And in this thread of mine you can also read the many phases I went through)Concerning the number 19 you mention, I wouldn't go so far as finding or seeing it everywhere, because I think a danger of falling into superstition and "magic" is always so near, and handy, the same as idolizing the messenger, or finding other "crutches"...
This doesn't mean that the mathematical miracle of the Qur'an, and its inner structure based on number 19, is not perfectly evident, proved and documented, as we all know that it is.For me it is always a pleasure to exchange good thoughts with noble fellow brothers who try to submit to the Almighty God as much as possible, as we all wish.
Praise and glory be to God always, blessed is He in eternity!
God bless you!
group -
Peace,
Relax, I have already heeded the warning of possible abuse of the code 19 and I am careful applying it. I just saw some things in my life may have a connection to God. Besides I see the signs merely as a confidence boost that God is with me and to His existence. So I do not see 19 everywhere like some people. If we get too soaked up with 19 it may turn into an idol.
Same goes for Code 19 to be honest, I just view it as a confirmation of God's existence and that the Quran is authentic.
And that it is just 3405 and 34B felt a bit funny. Almost like God knew I would waver because of peer pressure.
I started praying 3 prayers over a few weeks with 2 rakah (although with observing voluntary prayers making it 5). But 5 seem to be more right.
I have also thought about the idea of just doing regular prayers, for example, by praying from 6 in the morning (still dawn), 9 morning prayer, 12 middle prayer, 3 afternoon prayer, 6 dusk prayer and later a night prayer. This variant has no Quranic basis though, except regular prayers.
I often implore God with the wish to reassure my heart concerning the prayers and, God willing, He will answer my question at some point.
Please continue your research on the prayers, you have done a good job. Praise to God for enlightening you.
May God's Judgment Day come soon.
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Peace,
Relax, I have already heeded the warning of possible abuse of the code 19 and I am careful applying it. I just saw some things in my life may have a connection to God. Besides I see the signs merely as a confidence boost that God is with me and to His existence. So I do not see 19 everywhere like some people. If we get too soaked up with 19 it may turn into an idol.
Same goes for Code 19 to be honest, I just view it as a confirmation of God's existence and that the Quran is authentic.
And that it is just 3405 and 34B felt a bit funny. Almost like God knew I would waver because of peer pressure.
I started praying 3 prayers over a few weeks with 2 rakah (although with observing voluntary prayers making it 5). But 5 seem to be more right.
I have also thought about the idea of just doing regular prayers, for example, by praying from 6 in the morning (still dawn), 9 morning prayer, 12 middle prayer, 3 afternoon prayer, 6 dusk prayer and later a night prayer. This variant has no Quranic basis though, except regular prayers.
I often implore God with the wish to reassure my heart concerning the prayers and, God willing, He will answer my question at some point.
Please continue your research on the prayers, you have done a good job. Praise to God for enlightening you.
May God's Judgment Day come soon.
Just curious, with all the time spent on praying to God do you do any useful work? hypno
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Peace 357,
Who said one cannot work because being committed to God?
Besides I am not praying dawn, dusk and night prayers while working.
Sometimes fitting the noon and afternoon prayerinto the schedule can be difficult, but what is more important? This life or the next.
I am a good worker even if I spend some minutes praying during breaks in my schedule.
Rather use them for praying than chitchat.
May God have mercy upon us
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Just curious, with all the time spent on praying to God do you do any useful work? hypno
I would kindly ask you @357 to abstain form posting in my thread if you do not have some valuable material to contribute to the issue of the contact-prayer, thank you!
Besides, what more valuable and useful work can there ever be, than studying God's Word and practicing the good deeds to strengthen our soul and spirit with the prayers? ???
Praise be to God, the blessed One, for ever and ever!
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Prayer is Better Than Facebook
http//islamicartdb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/man-praying-facebook-on-laptop.jpg
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I usually do not advocate other people's posts, I am sorry, but I find this one very challenging and worth pondering
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605084.msg322050#msg322050
Forgive me for recommending it, but it is so very well written and a pleasure to read, with very sound logic in it!
Lately I was also re-examining my stance about the ritualistic Islamic prayer again, and one can read my reply thereof at the same thread.
Thank you.
Lots of love!
group
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A very interesting text
Interpreting the meaning of Islamic ritual ? The spiritual significance of ritual prayer according to al-Hakm al-Tirmidh (d. 279/892) and Ahmad Ibn ?Ajba (d. 1224/1809)
(Ruggero Vimercati Sanseverino, 2010)http//www.academia.edu/407069/Interpreting_the_meaning_of_Islamic_ritual_-_The_spiritual_significance_of_ritual_prayer_according_to_al-Hakim_al-Tirmidhi_d._279_892_and_Ahmad_Ibn_Ajiba_d.1224_1809
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The first Sura Al-Fatiha is recited in the Salat.
I suddenly found this, and I was both perplexed and intrigued because, long ago, I formed an opinion that everything, if not all, comes from Judaism, both in Xtianity and Islam. Now this is another proof for that, apart from myriads of other proofs.
Here it is
HA PATCHAH
(THE OPENING PRAYER)BE SHEM ELAH HA RAHAMIM
In the name of God, the Most Gracious (Ezr.51; Dan.99)
T?HILAH L?ELOHEINU RIBOHN HA-OLAMIM
All praise be to God, Lord of the universe (Jewish liturgy)
HA RAHAMIM
The Most Gracious (Dan.99)
MELEK YOM HA DIN
Master of the Day of Judgment (Jewish terminology)
ELEKHA ADONAY EQARA WE EL ADONAY ET HANAN
To you, O Lord, I implore ? and to my Lord I seek help (Psalm 309)
HEHENI BE ORACH MISHOR
Guide us in the straight path (Psalm 2711)
ALEKHET BE DEREHU WE LEYAREH ITTO
The way of life according to His path by reverencing Him (Deut 86)
LE HALAK BE ETSAH RISHAH WE LA SAGHAH
Not by the advice of the cursed, nor of the strayers (Psalm 11921)So, it is both phonetically and as a meaning same as Fatiha!
Now, what is the origin of "Ha Patchah"?
How did it develop? Was it before or after the Qur'an?The answers would be extremely valuable.
Thank youpeace
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Amazing post. But Judaism, Christianity and Islam "the religion" are man made concepts. Abraham was a monotheist. I don't think Moses set out to start a new religion called judaism. I don't think Jesus set out to start a new religion called christianity. And Muhammad didn't set out to start a new religion (involving funny hats and beards) called Islam. Islam is just a word, meaning submission. All of these prophets preached the same thing... Monotheism. So to say that Islam and Christianity stem from Judaism is unfair. All of these religions stem from Monotheism. Submission to one God, the creator. Beyond that, names are just names and religions as we know them are man made labels. The original meaning of Islam has been lost. Now it's more about the funny hats and scraggly beards.
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Peace Aamer,
You are right. There has only been one religion all along, which is islam which is in return not a label but a definition for total submission to God alone. Tightly connoted with peace it means to bring a balance to your soul, much like the struggle is in the Star Wars motion picture. A result of submission to God will eventually be this state of being. I am not joking when I say you can feel high on the flow of the Holy Spirit in your soul.
Some people who research on the Bible have found (might be an unreliable source though) that the word muslim exists in the discourse, but it is obviously hidden by Christian scholars and because people read the Bible in English or their respective languages and not in the original Greek or Hebrew they are unaware of this.
Apart from this unreliable information you can clearly see that Jesus taught islam if you read the Gospel testimonials. There is no denying to that.
Islam has become associated with something of a label of Arabic lunatics who run around with AK-47's yelling 'Allahu Akhbar' and with millitary style discipline in its practice and weird teachings with lots of strange prohibitions and extra practices. It is clearly a very unfriendly religion which sadly bears the title of God's definition on how to leave yourself in God's hands in islam. Muslim and all that has nothing to do with this man-made religion. This religion is based on hadith more than what the Quran teaches. This religion makes people aggressive and intolerant and bla bla (sorry you know the usual badness of this sectarian behavior).
When the Prophets and Messengers referred to their religion they said they followed the religion of their (righteous) ancestors and not by any name but by the practice of total submission to God alone (islam), i.e they were muslims for one who practices islam is a muslim. We are muslims. We cannot escape from this definition. However, I would gladly find an English definition which does not sound awkward, for peacemaker sounds lame and submitter not accurate enough.
Note I know I have tried to change away from the use of the word submission because I think it still is a poor translation of the word islam, but there is no other good choice unfortunately. Islam is submission to God, but it means more than that. It is highly related to the greeting in islam which is salaam which means something like 'Peace' as we already know. This is why some people come up with the alternative English definitions for islam such as peacemaking and its practitioners peacemakers, but this is also not entirely accurate. But as far as I can tell the goal in islam is to bring a balance to your soul by submission to God, which is the combination of the words peace and submission together which can be derived from the Arabic word islam. The ultimate long-term goal in islam is just peace within your soul and it starts with submission to God alone. But so far I rather use the word islam to refer to my religion rather than submission or peacemaking.
When talking in depth about the mechanics of islam you can get really deep because it is a really really abstract topic.
God bless you
Peace GODsubmitter,
I am sorry for discussing things for which your thread is not dedicated.
You saw my elaboration on salat in the other thread and this how I perceive the prayer to be like. Salat needs to be separated from some robot-like practice and take it for the contact/connection to the God as it stands for. Simply thinking about God, talking and focusing on Him is salat. Ritual-like situations are to help us concentrate and have a dedicated moment for the Lord, as which may not be as serious when we simply call on His name 'on-the-fly' throughout the day. This is why God refers to specifically named prayers at dawn and night plus in the day as a middle prayer because He wishes us to spare a moment or two in remembrance when we forget our daily worries and focus on Him solely. Like I said in the other thread; there are an infinite number of prayers but a minimum of three, and God would not speak in riddles on such an important topic.
The Quran is easy and should be regarded as such, although we only need to guard our minds from conjecture and wishful thinking. Our worst problem is that we start to invent conclusions clouding the Truth such as erasing the Prophet of the Quran entirely as if he never existed and the likes. It is good however that we exposed the misinterpretation of 434 and many others verses, since God would not advocate sin. My only question now which annoys me is God's alleged positive attitude towards slavery according to traditional interpretation as you can read in a recent thread which I participate in. Never in my life I can think God would support slavery as part of His system.
God bless you
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Peace Aamer,
You are right. There has only been one religion all along, which is islam which is in return not a label but a definition for total submission to God alone. Tightly connoted with peace it means to bring a balance to your soul, much like the struggle is in the Star Wars motion picture. A result of submission to God will eventually be this state of being. I am not joking when I say you can feel high on the flow of the Holy Spirit in your soul.
Some people who research on the Bible have found (might be an unreliable source though) that the word muslim exists in the discourse, but it is obviously hidden by Christian scholars and because people read the Bible in English or their respective languages and not in the original Greek or Hebrew they are unaware of this.
Apart from this unreliable information you can clearly see that Jesus taught islam if you read the Gospel testimonials. There is no denying to that.
Islam has become associated with something of a label of Arabic lunatics who run around with AK-47's yelling 'Allahu Akhbar' and with millitary style discipline in its practice and weird teachings with lots of strange prohibitions and extra practices. It is clearly a very unfriendly religion which sadly bears the title of God's definition on how to leave yourself in God's hands in islam. Muslim and all that has nothing to do with this man-made religion. This religion is based on hadith more than what the Quran teaches. This religion makes people aggressive and intolerant and bla bla (sorry you know the usual badness of this sectarian behavior).
When the Prophets and Messengers referred to their religion they said they followed the religion of their (righteous) ancestors and not by any name but by the practice of total submission to God alone (islam), i.e they were muslims for one who practices islam is a muslim. We are muslims. We cannot escape from this definition. However, I would gladly find an English definition which does not sound awkward, for peacemaker sounds lame and submitter not accurate enough.
Note I know I have tried to change away from the use of the word submission because I think it still is a poor translation of the word islam, but there is no other good choice unfortunately. Islam is submission to God, but it means more than that. It is highly related to the greeting in islam which is salaam which means something like 'Peace' as we already know. This is why some people come up with the alternative English definitions for islam such as peacemaking and its practitioners peacemakers, but this is also not entirely accurate. But as far as I can tell the goal in islam is to bring a balance to your soul by submission to God, which is the combination of the words peace and submission together which can be derived from the Arabic word islam. The ultimate long-term goal in islam is just peace within your soul and it starts with submission to God alone. But so far I rather use the word islam to refer to my religion rather than submission or peacemaking.
When talking in depth about the mechanics of islam you can get really deep because it is a really really abstract topic.
God bless you
Peace GODsubmitter,
I am sorry for discussing things for which your thread is not dedicated.
You saw my elaboration on salat in the other thread and this how I perceive the prayer to be like. Salat needs to be separated from some robot-like practice and take it for the contact/connection to the God as it stands for. Simply thinking about God, talking and focusing on Him is salat. Ritual-like situations are to help us concentrate and have a dedicated moment for the Lord, as which may not be as serious when we simply call on His name 'on-the-fly' throughout the day. This is why God refers to specifically named prayers at dawn and night plus in the day as a middle prayer because He wishes us to spare a moment or two in remembrance when we forget our daily worries and focus on Him solely. Like I said in the other thread; there are an infinite number of prayers but a minimum of three, and God would not speak in riddles on such an important topic.
The Quran is easy and should be regarded as such, although we only need to guard our minds from conjecture and wishful thinking. Our worst problem is that we start to invent conclusions clouding the Truth such as erasing the Prophet of the Quran entirely as if he never existed and the likes. It is good however that we exposed the misinterpretation of 434 and many others verses, since God would not advocate sin. My only question now which annoys me is God's alleged positive attitude towards slavery according to traditional interpretation as you can read in a recent thread which I participate in. Never in my life I can think God would support slavery as part of His system.
God bless you
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Thank you for your answers gentlemen.
But I would like to get more information about this prayer HA PATCHAH from Judaism, and to know whether it existed before the Sura al-Fatiha, since it would be interesting to discover if it was the material and inspiration for the first Sura, because it is (almost) identical!
What is the origin of "Ha Patchah"?
How did it develop? Was it before or after the Qur'an?The answers would be extremely valuable.
Peace
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Peace be within you, GODsubmitter
The first Sura Al-Fatiha is recited in the Salat.
I suddenly found this, and I was both perplexed and intrigued because, long ago, I formed an opinion that everything, if not all, comes from Judaism, both in Xtianity and Islam. Now this is another proof for that, apart from myriads of other proofs.
Here it is
HA PATCHAH
(THE OPENING PRAYER)BE SHEM ELAH HA RAHAMIM
In the name of God, the Most Gracious (Ezr.51; Dan.99)
T?HILAH L?ELOHEINU RIBOHN HA-OLAMIM
All praise be to God, Lord of the universe (Jewish liturgy)
HA RAHAMIM
The Most Gracious (Dan.99)
MELEK YOM HA DIN
Master of the Day of Judgment (Jewish terminology)
ELEKHA ADONAY EQARA WE EL ADONAY ET HANAN
To you, O Lord, I implore ? and to my Lord I seek help (Psalm 309)
HEHENI BE ORACH MISHOR
Guide us in the straight path (Psalm 2711)
ALEKHET BE DEREHU WE LEYAREH ITTO
The way of life according to His path by reverencing Him (Deut 86)
LE HALAK BE ETSAH RISHAH WE LA SAGHAH
Not by the advice of the cursed, nor of the strayers (Psalm 11921)So, it is both phonetically and as a meaning same as Fatiha!
Now, what is the origin of "Ha Patchah"?
How did it develop? Was it before or after the Qur'an?The answers would be extremely valuable.
Thank youpeace
That is amazing indeed, where did you find them, if I may ask? Is the Ha Patchah in classical Hebrew from the Torah or the Talmud or other books? Was it in one chapter alone or was it compiled from the different verses which you indicate in brackets? Is it on-line? Sorry for the continuous questions, bro GODsubmitter ) This is also in line with my current personal study and research for the Truth.
Thank you for your answers gentlemen.
But I would like to get more information about this prayer HA PATCHAH from Judaism, and to know whether it existed before the Sura al-Fatiha, since it would be interesting to discover if it was the material and inspiration for the first Sura, because it is (almost) identical!
What is the origin of "Ha Patchah"?
How did it develop? Was it before or after the Qur'an?The answers would be extremely valuable.
Peace
From my first impression is that they are identical, and there must be a whole Quran in Hebrew out there somewhere, hopefully not locked up in the Vatican vaults. Remember that before they became Arabs, they were Erebs first, the "mixed" group of people who were punished and cursed and prohibited from the holy land after the second destruction of the temple. God gave them the last chance of repentance (9 At-Taubah) when He appointed the last Prophet, from the unlettered people, to unite the Erebs and took back the holy land from the Romans. This is my on-going personal study and research of the Book of Truth about the journey of the last Prophet and I apologize because its out of your topic.
Peace and blessings be within you.
tauhid101