Bismillah Ir'Rahman Ir'Rahim

Olusanya

As'Salaam Alaikum Wakas,

Shukran for your welcoming words, and that reference to the Qur'an! Although I did not have it in mind, my words do have it's energy! Does this fall into the category... "surely these are sign for those with understanding"? lol

Ma'Salaam, Olusanya

Ansar

Ansar,

You demonstrate my point very well! Where did you see me write that I make up my own rulings? Where did it say in my post that I do not read the Qur'an, pray or do dhikr? Again... if we are to communicate it must be based upon what is being said, not internal dialogues where one sees and hears only what one wants to hear. You seek to put words in my mouth so you will feel justified in your disagreement. You do not have to agree with what I choose to write or practice, because you will not be beside me when I stand before Allah, nor will I be beside you. Your words and actions are exactly why I do not follow the Sunni or Shia traditions... there is way too much emotionalism and not enough striving to practice UNITY. You give it lip-service, but your words and actions are divisive in nature.
Please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I speak and write very deliberately and you will only demonstrate that a closed-mind and open-heart are diametrically opposed to each other.

Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya

I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm just replying against your deviant posting. This is what you said

I have found it easier and less confusing to follow nature's laws.
I do not condemn those who choose to follow shariah, especially if it brings them closer to the unity of Allah, but it is not my 'practice'.

Strange that you follow sufism, and praise those people, while they have refuted people like you. Especially imam ghazali. Ibnul Arabi even has a book on hadith qudsi. These people where straight up orthodox and if you lived in their periods, they would have declared you kafir. Same counts for other sufi scholars. (the entire sufi ulema were in fact sunni)

Please study sufism a bit more. Begin with these books
http//store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b5036.html
http//store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b4920.html

And please, do not repeat that you want unity. You are promoting sectarism which is against the quran.

Olusanya

I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm just replying against your deviant posting. This is what you said

I have found it easier and less confusing to follow nature's laws.
I do not condemn those who choose to follow shariah, especially if it brings them closer to the unity of Allah, but it is not my 'practice'.

Once again... you listen to the words of your inner dialogue, demonstrating that a closed mind cannot grasp the meaning of a simple statement. What is the nature of Allah? What are the laws of nature? If you are as intelligent as you think you are please demonstarte how those words show that I do not live according to the Qur'an, via a post, not inner dialogue that only you can hear.
I do not follow Sufism, in fact, I do not follow any man or woman. That is why I can think for myself, needing no man to guide me, free to follow the guidance of Allah.
Was Abraham a deviant? Did the Qur'an exist during Abraham's time? Why does Allah command Mohammed to follow the religion of Abraham, what was the name of that religion?
Again... if you choose to follow these men, then please do so. If my choice to follow the Qur'an alone (avoiding man-made sayings) gives you a feeling of superiority and that makes you happy... I am happy for you. Go ahead, do your thing!

You obviously look to others for acceptance and verification of your truth... I do not feel such a need.

Look at this thread from beginning to end. I shared my path to the Qur'an alone, introducing myself at the same time. I was greeted with warm words of welcome by many, but you instead immediately looked for something to challenge. That is your "tradition" in a nutshell... division and self-glorification... seeking to condemn those who do not agree with you.

109.1 Qul y ayyuh alkfiroon(a)
Say O ye that reject Faith!

109.2 L aAAbudu m taAAbudoon(a)
I serve not that which ye serve,

109.3 Wal antum AAbidoona m aAAbud(u)
Nor will ye serve that which I serve.

109.4 Wal an AAbidun m AAabadtum
And I will not serve that which ye have been wont to serve,

109.5 Wal antum AAbidoona m aAAbud(u)
Nor will ye serve that which I serve.

109.6 Lakum deenukum waliya deen(i)
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Who's who? Understand this clearly! I am not seeking your approval. You are just a man... like myself. My faith is strong, I do not fear the day I stand before Allah as a witness to my deeds.

Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya

zenje

Salaam Olusanya,

Look at this thread from beginning to end. I shared my path to the Qur'an alone, introducing myself at the same time. I was greeted with warm words of welcome by many, but you instead immediately looked for something to challenge. That is your "tradition" in a nutshell... division and self-glorification... seeking to condemn those who do not agree with you.

If you take a note on all threads in this section, Ansar feels it is his duty to attack anyone sharing their story... roll

It's like a timed automated predictable response everytime. wink

Just FYI

Ansar

Once again... you listen to the words of your inner dialogue, demonstrating that a closed mind cannot grasp the meaning of a simple statement. What is the nature of Allah? What are the laws of nature? If you are as intelligent as you think you are please demonstarte how those words show that I do not live according to the Qur'an, via a post, not inner dialogue that only you can hear.
I do not follow Sufism, in fact, I do not follow any man or woman. That is why I can think for myself, needing no man to guide me, free to follow the guidance of Allah.
Was Abraham a deviant? Did the Qur'an exist during Abraham's time? Why does Allah command Mohammed to follow the religion of Abraham, what was the name of that religion?
Again... if you choose to follow these men, then please do so. If my choice to follow the Qur'an alone (avoiding man-made sayings) gives you a feeling of superiority and that makes you happy... I am happy for you. Go ahead, do your thing!

You obviously look to others for acceptance and verification of your truth... I do not feel such a need.

Look at this thread from beginning to end. I shared my path to the Qur'an alone, introducing myself at the same time. I was greeted with warm words of welcome by many, but you instead immediately looked for something to challenge. That is your "tradition" in a nutshell... division and self-glorification... seeking to condemn those who do not agree with you.

Who's who? Understand this clearly! I am not seeking your approval. You are just a man... like myself. My faith is strong, I do not fear the day I stand before Allah as a witness to my deeds.

Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya

its seems to be you have little knowledge about islam. Abrahab alayhis salaam was a muslim. So where all other prophets. But prophet muhammad peace be upon him came for mankind and his shariah is to be followed today.

Thats what the quran says. Look up the rules given in it. If we take your argument i could marry a mushrik while the quran says something different.

Ps. You are following men. Check your sayings again about certain persons and this site.

Olusanya

Once again... you listen to the words of your inner dialogue, demonstrating that a closed mind cannot grasp the meaning of a simple statement. What is the nature of Allah? What are the laws of nature? If you are as intelligent as you think you are please demonstarte how those words show that I do not live according to the Qur'an, via a post, not inner dialogue that only you can hear.
I do not follow Sufism, in fact, I do not follow any man or woman. That is why I can think for myself, needing no man to guide me, free to follow the guidance of Allah.
Was Abraham a deviant? Did the Qur'an exist during Abraham's time? Why does Allah command Mohammed to follow the religion of Abraham, what was the name of that religion?
Again... if you choose to follow these men, then please do so. If my choice to follow the Qur'an alone (avoiding man-made sayings) gives you a feeling of superiority and that makes you happy... I am happy for you. Go ahead, do your thing!

You obviously look to others for acceptance and verification of your truth... I do not feel such a need.

Look at this thread from beginning to end. I shared my path to the Qur'an alone, introducing myself at the same time. I was greeted with warm words of welcome by many, but you instead immediately looked for something to challenge. That is your "tradition" in a nutshell... division and self-glorification... seeking to condemn those who do not agree with you.

Who's who? Understand this clearly! I am not seeking your approval. You are just a man... like myself. My faith is strong, I do not fear the day I stand before Allah as a witness to my deeds.

Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya

its seems to be you have little knowledge about islam. Abrahab alayhis salaam was a muslim. So where all other prophets. But prophet muhammad peace be upon him came for mankind and his shariah is to be followed today.

Thats what the quran says. Look up the rules given in it. If we take your argument i could marry a mushrik while the quran says something different.

Ps. You are following men. Check your sayings again about certain persons and this site.

As'Salaam Alaikum Ansar,

I fail to see your point because all you do is continue to make unfounded statements while failing to answer any questions presented to you.

I know a great deal about Islam, that's why I asked you about Abraham (by the way there's nothing wrong with checking your spelling before you post... it helps to get your point across if people can read what you have written). Yes! Abraham was a Prophet! Did the Qur'an exist in his day? Why was Muhammed given the command to follow the religion of Ibrahim?

2278 Wajhidoo fee Allhi aqqa jihdihi huwa ijtabkum wam jaAAala AAalaykum fee a(l)ddeeni min arajin millata abeekum ibrheema huwa sammkumu almuslimeena min qablu wafee h liyakoona a(l)rrasoolu shaheedan AAalaykum watakoonoo shuhada AAal a(l)nnsi faaqeemoo a(l)alta watoo a(l)zzakta wa(i)AAtaimoo bi(A)llhi huwa mawlkum faniAAma almawl waniAAma a(l)nnaeer(u)

And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the religion of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish Salaat,Zakat, and hold fast to Allah! He is your Protector - the Best to protect and the Best to help!

Al-Qur'an, 22078 (Al-Hajj )

Why does the Qur'an say, "both before and in this (Revelation)"?

I don't have an argument. You are looking for one, so that you can feel justified in your disagreement with me. You created this dialogue by looking for error where there is none, by acting like you understand where I am coming from when you have no idea of who I am or what is within my heart.

If you would like to continue this dialogue then please answer my questions, so I know that your at least reading the posts presented to you.

Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

Excellent story brother. Yoruba has something to do with "Ifa" is that correct? Someone was showing some of the comparisons in a DVD i was listening to about Kamitic philosophy.

Don't waste your time on Ansar, he is not here to liberate his NAFS, only to try to bring us all back to ignorance.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Osulanya,

What I meant to ask on my last post was what happenned when you were studying Yoruba that caused you to see sectarianism, and what were the basis of those differences by which they seperated others?

Olusanya

Peace be upon you Osulanya,

What I meant to ask on my last post was what happenned when you were studying Yoruba that caused you to see sectarianism, and what were the basis of those differences by which they seperated others?

As'Salaam Alaikum Idolfree1,

I see your point about Ansar.

The tradition practiced by the Yoruba people of Nigeria is correctly called Ifa. During the diaspora it underwent various changes. When it came to the United States it was syncretized with the Catholic religion (because the slaves were forbidden to practice their ancestral tradition) and became known as Santeria or the worship of Saints. In Cuba it became Lucumi (Yoruba for "my Friend") which was how the practitioners greeted each other. It is also called Candomble in Brazil. These different groups discriminate against each other, often arguing over which is the "true" tradition. Those who practice the tradition as it is practiced in Africa condemn the Santeros for mixing Christianity into the tradition. The Nigerians who come to America chastise the American Yoruba for not being "african" enough. The Americans condemn the Nigerians for initiating caucasians, the list goes on. One man named Oseijiman Adefunmi, who practiced Lucumi (he was the first African-American initiated into the tradition in Cuba) decided to go to Nigeria and learn the original tradition, when he came back he established an african village in South Carolina called Oyotunji village. The Santeria community actually sent people to the south to try and assassinate him because they felt he turned his back on their tradition. Even amongst the American Yoruba communities there exists a competition over who will be recognized as the caretakers of the tradition, with individuals vying for personal power. Like the Ulemas and Alims they tend to keep their followers in the dark, more or less ignorant so that they can control them, instead of enpowering them in the tradition so that they can develop themselves.
I found it extremely frustrating for someone seeking to develop their spirit and relationship with the Creator.

Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

Thank you for the response, that was very intersting and informative. From other responses of yours on this forum, I can tell you have brought what was beneficial from that experience with you. All that is good comes from the God, no matter what "title" people try to put on it.

I'll see you later on another thread, Peace.

Ansar

As'Salaam,

My introduction to the "tradition" of Islam was a black nationalist group called the Five Percent Nation of Islam (now known as the Nation of Gods and Earths) an offshoot of the Nation of Islam.

You should read the biography of malcolm x http//store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b2634.html (nice online bookstore; i've ordered from it)

It shows how he discovered true islam.

Olusanya

As'Salaam,

My introduction to the "tradition" of Islam was a black nationalist group called the Five Percent Nation of Islam (now known as the Nation of Gods and Earths) an offshoot of the Nation of Islam.

You should read the biography of malcolm x http//store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b2634.html (nice online bookstore; i've ordered from it)

It shows how he discovered true islam.

Salaamun Ansar,

I have read the autobiography of El Hajj Malik Shabazz. What is your point?

We do not know if El Hajj discovered true Islam because his life was cut short, before he could expound on his transformation after leaving the Nation of Islam.

Ma'Salaam,
Olu'sanya

Ansar

Salaamun Ansar,

I have read the autobiography of El Hajj Malik Shabazz. What is your point?

We do not know if El Hajj discovered true Islam because his life was cut short, before he could expound on his transformation after leaving the Nation of Islam.

Ma'Salaam,
Olu'sanya

My point is that you should act like he did. And believe me...he clearly said he was a SUNNI and followed islam like other muslims in the world at that time. The muslims of the east.... I guess you havent read that book at all, otherwise you wouldnt have stated that.

Olusanya

Salaamun Ansar,

I have read the autobiography of El Hajj Malik Shabazz. What is your point?

We do not know if El Hajj discovered true Islam because his life was cut short, before he could expound on his transformation after leaving the Nation of Islam.

Ma'Salaam,
Olu'sanya

My point is that you should act like he did. And believe me...he clearly said he was a SUNNI and followed islam like other muslims in the world at that time. The muslims of the east.... I guess you havent read that book at all, otherwise you wouldnt have stated that.

Salaam Ansar,

I told you I read the book, so that is not open for debate. My name is Olu'sanya, therefore I should not "act" like "any" man, other than myself. That is what truth is... El Hajj had his truth, at the time his autobiography was written he had just recently returned from his pilgrimage, his understanding of Islam was changing. He may have said he was Sunni back then, that in no way means he would be today, besides... who said Sunni was true muslim? He was evolving his understanding of Islam, obviously wasn't afraid to change his perspective as his perceptions developed, the same way you should be evolving yours, based on your "own" experience of Islam, instead of talking about what someone else did. All of my actions are based upon my understanding of Islam, my experience of Islam, not conjecture about someone who cannot speak for themselves. I don't live my life based upon what someone said... who heard it upon good authority that someone said... they hear from so and so that... they heard Olu'sanya doesn't "act" like a true "muslim".
You have no idea about how I should act because you don't know me. Any idea you have of me that is not in my writing is pure conjecture. I have the Qur'an as a guide, and my experience is the best teacher, so autobiographies and hadeeth are just the stories of men, that may or may not inspire me in my growth and development, I have Allah as a guide.

Ma'Salaam,
Olu'sanya