Discussion on 4:3 and meaning of nisa
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There is not, and has never been, a signification of nis? in the Classical Arabic language other than "women."
That view has been addressed by me in This Post I made earlier in this thread.
There is not even a word of the same form and radicals with which one might mistake the two meanings.
This is incorrect. Please see page 1130 of Hans Wehr Arabic Dictionary and Volume 8, page 287 of Lane's Lexicon.
The case for a Quran-specific meaning of nis? - other than "women" - does not exist.
This is due to the fact that the word is repeatedly treated as one which signifies a group of feminine sentient beings, as accords with the syntax of the Classical language.
12/30 and 4/3 prove this to be grammatically incorrect while 3/14 and 24/31 prove this to be logically incorrect (that is, as long as a person is willing to use logic).
For emphasis, there is not, and has never been, a signification of nis? in the Classical Arabic language other than "women."
Unfortunately no one can prove this statement to be true or untrue just as no one can prove true or untrue the opposite point of view (that nisa meant something else other than women in 7th Century Arabic). The best any of us can do (and what I am attempting to do) is examine this so-called anomaly and ask logical questions and examine The Quran with a rational mind. As far as examining this anomaly and asking questions as well as critiquing it, again I point you in the direction of This Post I made earlier in this thread.
Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.
"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.
I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."
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Two points
- As stated in another thread of a similarly contentious nature, I am strongly of the belief that if members of this forum were more grounded in the rules of the Classical Arabic language, this thread would not have run into 46 pages, and that our efforts would have been devoted elsewhere to more deserving issues.
This is a deserving issue for women everywhere. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. However, we're not going to cease the discussion just because you deem that it's unnecessary for us to devote so much time to it. It matters to us. If you're no longer interested in it and have formed your own convictions, than perhaps you can devote your time somewhere else.
Thanks.
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Released,
I can tell you from experience that this topic can really show a person's true colors. This thread alone is a testament to that considering how a few people who participated are not positive contributors but more like intentional discouragers (complete with rants and insults instead of tackling the issue). If you REALLY want to test the intellectual honesty of any male who claims to be a follower of The Quran, simply bring up this topic and the points that were raised against the beliefs that Nisaa=women and that 4/3 is mandating polygamy and watch the fireworks. I swear it is totally amazing.
A very small recap
*someone is being addressed and given in instructions in 4/3.
*We go BACKWARDS to 4/1 to find out WHO that someone is. It is An-Naas and An-Naas is People!! This includes men AND women.
*By going back to 4/1 we know that it is NOT men alone who are being addressed in 4/3, but it is men AND women being addressed (and commanded) in 4/3.
*4/3 has a masculine verb (Taaba) that is performed by An-Nisaa. How do we know? Here's how
A). It cannot be performed by the 2nd Person Addressee. Taaba is a 3rd Person Verb and I have yet to hear an explanation as to HOW a 3rd Person Verb can be performed by the 2nd Person Addressee.
B). The traditional Musafeer and translations say this verb (Taaba) means what is good or what seems good to you all, but I think this is incorrect as this would give the 3rd person masculine verb Taaba a PASSIVE meaning which is wrong. Tayyib means good. So something that would be or seem good to the 2nd person addressee would be Tayyib.
C). Another word that is overlooked is the word Lakum which means To/For You all. Having ascertained that Taaba is in it's 3rd Person basic form, we see that it cannot be done by the addressee since Lakum is pointing to the 2nd Person Addressee. Taaba is 3rd person and Lakum is 2nd person.
D). In spite of what some people may wish to think or how vehemently they wish to reject it, Ma Taaba Lakum Min An-Nisaa IS constructed in the Ma...Min Clause/Construct. I have yet to come across an Arabic grammar book that says this is bogus or does not exist. Studying the links to the grammar books I have given and carefully studying the sentence in question in 4/3 would reveal this in my humble opinion.
*To believe that the word Nisaa means women but DOES NOT have a singular form (even though the words WOMAN and WOMEN are two of the most COMMON EVERY DAY WORDS in EVERY LANGUAGE) would suggest that the species that this word is applied to were not always familiar to the 7th Century Arabs just like the Arctic Fox, the Arctic Hare and the Walrus. New words had to be made up and coined for these three Northern Climatic animals since the 7th Century Arabs were not always familiar with them and we see how the Singular and Plural of each word are using two different sets of roots. Since this anomaly supposedly exists for Woman (Imraa'a) and Women (Nisaa', this suggests to me that (just like the three aforementioned Arctic animals) that the 7th Century Arabs were not always aware of and familiar with Women and when they finally learned of the existence of women, they had to coin new terms for them in both their singular and plural form.
- Lastly, some questions were asked which were never answered. I'll repeat here ONLY ONE of them. Since the defenders of the status quo cannot even answer just this one question, logically I cannot expect them to answer any of the rest of them. BUT...WHY must I marry a woman in order to financially help her? What road block exists that would prevent me for helping her financially if I do not marry her? (sorry, that's actually two questions P ).
And if anyone here does wish to make an attempt at answering this question please keep this in mind The Monetary Contribution DOES NOT change at all. If I'm paying her rent or mortgage for her, groceries, utility bills, transportation, clothing, education and giving her spending money, the monetary output does not change if I marry her. So there's no change in the monetary contribution I am making if I marry her or not. The only thing I can think of as to WHY a man should marry a woman that he's assisting is to get something in return from her. Stop hiding behind your false sense of duty to justify your sexual lusts you creeps. >(
Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.
"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.
I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."
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There have been participants in the thread who, if the were as proficient in the intricacies of the Arabic language as they purport to be, would have been in,a position to answer the several times that I put up the question of the morphological genesis of the word nisaa' and root attribution. No answer from them.
Either the pretented proficiency in the language is not there, either there is no intention of helping in the quest. Why? Is it because the answer would run counter to their view in the subject?
As I said repeatedly, for starts, I do not agree or disagree with the full import of Damon's assertions. I want to have more facts brought to light.
For instance I do not think that nisaa' in the Qur'an does always mean women and that is also easily ascertained.
Does it never mean women? I am not sure one way or the other. I need more facts, more knowledge.
I think this term and the term rajul have gone the way signalled by damon in his explanation of the term nigger, or the way the verb daraba has gone, where, as shown patiently by wakas in his monography, in the whole of Qur'an there is no occurrence of the word that means beat in the sense of physical hitting of another person's body.
How or when came this term to have the meaning of beat as it is known today? My feeling is that, as in those centuries and all the centuries up to one century ago more or less, the marital authority, that is, the authority of the husband, was undisputed as master of the wife and of the family, the muslims of past times could not see or could not assume that the Qur'an had riddened them of that marital authority. It is plain that nowhere in the Qur'an husbands are given authority over the wives. That was a void in the Qur'an in the view of the people of the time, so they had to find in the Qur'an somewhere where that authority was sanctioned and they found the way out in the daraba clause, just twisting a little bit the meaning of daraba and taking it as hit. So it became hit them. But since their aim was not to beat the hell out of wives, but to establish beyond doubt the marital authority, all kinds of contraptions were brought forth so as to make that beat mora palatable to non violent people. So they invented the toothbrush thing and the history of Ayub and his wife, and so on.
BUT the feat of changing the meaning of a word in the Qur'an was achieved. Daraba became beating. The ridiculous look of the aya under this interpretation was no deterrent they had solved their problem.
With the same aim something similar may well have happened with nisaa' and rijaal.
To bear in mind that rijaal, even in dictionnaries today, has the meaning of "eminent person". So, is it too hard to fathom that the original derived meaning of the meaning of the root "somebody standing on their feet", that is, "eminent person" became automatically assigned to all men, as they always in respect to women would be eminent (think of marital authority)?. In spite of that, even today the other meaning has not disappeared, and though rarely used, it is perfectly alive, particularly amongst spiritual persons . There are and there have been women who are and have been rijaal, in spite of all the efforts to do linguistically and factually away with them.
We also have a clear hint of where the shots may point in the case of women when we think of the expression "the weaker sex" or "the fair sex". A euphemism for women universally understood and perfectly synonimous. And a perfect verbal disavowing of any power to women, since weak persons cannot have power and fair (meaning beautiful) do not "need" power.
At what linguistic stage was the word nisaa' when the Qur'an was revealed? Had already some way been done in the road to making a possible Arabic equivalent of "the waker sex" synonimous with women? No way done at all?
For me there is no doubt that the straneous character of the word "nisaa'" as a plural for imraa' is due to some phenomenon as the ones I have outlined above and as also shown by Shirley. In the case of rijaal it is plain the way the word has gone, from being somebody who stands on his or her feet to become a sexual denoter, with the advantage in this case that there is a singular and a plural of the same root, which makes the case simpler. The case of nisaa' is much obscurer and even for me which is the true root of the word is very far from clear. Which root does it come from? Is it the consolidation of mixing two roots to make what may have been a pun at the beginning, like mixing root a-n-s and n-s-', n-s-w and even n-s-y. That is not something unknown in linguistics. If two or more words ressemble each other and their meanings at some time seem to reunite in some object, the final derived word may have pulled from all the contributing original words to conform a composed etimology.
That is the way I see as very plausible for the eventual evolution of the word nisaa' we find int he Qur'an. And the question is that where in evolution was it when it has been used in the Qur'an, and whether it had already several root attributions or may be only one, like my preferred, for the time being, a-n-s.
I think some light on this matter may enlighten further what was the object of the thread as started by Damon.
Salaam
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Concerning root n-s-', I translate underneath a text from a Spanish forum on its meaning
Nisaa' (women) comes from nasa'a (na-sa-hamza) (أ, I think it has to do with periods of time, since the root relates to delays in time
9.37 Verily the transposing (of a prohibited month (nasii' is an addition to Unbelief the Unbelievers are led to wrong thereby for they make it lawful one year, and forbidden another year, in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by Allah and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their course seems pleasing to them. But Allah guideth not those who reject Faith.
The same is used by the Prophet in a hadith "Whoever wishes to have his sustenance augmented and his lifetime (nas' prolonged, he should maintain his family (rahim).
Usury by time displacement in time is called usury of the nasi' (riba an-nasi'
The root denotes periodical displacementes, is linked to periods of time. Functions that depend on periods of time, from it is derived that the persons of feminine gender who are not adults, are not nisaa', even if they are females, nisaa' are only the adults, female children are not nisaa' and neither male children are riyaal.
This also is interesting. And it is interesting that although the poster speaks about children, from what he says it can be inferred that women beyond menopause are not nisaa' either.
It enlightens a lot as to what we may be dealing with. If nisaa' entails a period of time, what puts a limit to the kind of persons who may be under circumstances bound by time? There is no limit. It may be that women in procreating age may be a catgory under that, that socially, but not quranically may have been extended, conveniently extended to all women, but which in fat may affect all persons at some time, think of sick people, invalid people, jailed people...
It also fits with the description people who for whatever circumstance may be in need to support from society.
Salaam
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For instance I do not think that nisaa' in the Qur'an does always mean women and that is also easily ascertained.
Does it never mean women? I am not sure one way or the other. I need more facts, more knowledge.
There are just 59 instances of its use in Qur'aan. I started to discuss all occurrences, one by one. Anyone who thinks it has any meanings other than women and wives in construct phrases, he is welcome to assert its meanings in the Ayah and see whether he makes any sense out of it.
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I have been reading this interesting thread off and on. Dammon has done a wonderful job of proving the point that word "Nisa? linguistically does not and could not mean "Woman". However, nay sayers keep bringing other verses from same wrong translation that is cause of the entire problem. This is the point that is being high lighted. It is not a mater of one concept or one word wrong. It is all of it. It needs fresh start needs to be retranslated, letter by letter and word by word. Until this is done there is no understanding.
Here is a translation of first verse of An Nisa. If needed would be happy to give word by word break down.
Regards,
41
O you sleepy inattentive, the state of commotion is what you all need to guard and protect against. Your Rabb (sustainer, maintainer, foster and accomplisher), is he who created you for this common purpose. As well created your female companions for the same purpose, then spread from two of you, multitudes of mankind and you all forgot about this purpose. So you all guard against this forgetfulness. One who is not a deity for worship; is he, whom you are always seeking knowledge and information, about this purpose as well, your relationship. For sure, one who is not a deity for worship is always a preserver and guardian, over you.
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bkanwar2
the verse you just quoted reveals that nisa doesnt mean women
41
And see how you translated it
O you sleepy inattentive, the state of commotion is what you all need to guard and protect against. Your Rabb (sustainer, maintainer, foster and accomplisher), is he who created you for this common purpose. As well created your female companions for the same purpose, then spread from two of you, multitudes of mankind and you all forgot about this purpose. So you all guard against this forgetfulness. One who is not a deity for worship; is he, whom you are always seeking knowledge and information, about this purpose as well, your relationship. For sure, one who is not a deity for worship is always a preserver and guardian, over you.
Female and women is not the same. Thus, the above translation also agrees that Nisa does not mean women. (However, I do not think that nisa means females as the translation suggests)
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Female and women is not the same. Thus, the above translation also agrees that Nisa does not mean women. (However, I do not think that nisa means females as the translation suggests)
Female companion is not the translation of Nisa. It is the meaning of word Zujaha.
Regards,
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I have been reading this interesting thread off and on. Dammon has done a wonderful job of proving the point that word "Nisa? linguistically does not and could not mean "Woman".
Thank You Brother Badar.
However, nay sayers keep bringing other verses from same wrong translation that is cause of the entire problem. This is the point that is being high lighted. It is not a mater of one concept or one word wrong. It is all of it. It needs fresh start needs to be retranslated, letter by letter and word by word. Until this is done there is no understanding.
Yes, this is exactly what I have been saying as well in this thread. The nay sayers keep asking to explore this verse and that verse, what about the word here and what about there, etc. without realizing that EVERY WORD (including the word Nisaa) in those 50 or so verses also need to be reinterpreted. It's like they refuse to get it. But this is what preconceived notions and conceptual barriers will do. It impedes rational thinking and makes a person forfeit honesty.
FOR THE RECORD, I would like to make it known that I endorse and support Brother Badar's Translation efforts just like I support and endorse Dr. Qamar Zaman's translation project, and for the same reasons one of which Brother Badar just mentioned
It needs fresh start needs to be retranslated, letter by letter and word by word. Until this is done there is no understanding
Agreed. I came to realize the need for a total re-understanding of The Quran while I was still a traditional Muslim myself. And it is this bravery and taking up of the mantle that Brother Badar and Dr. Qamar have gained my respect and admiration.
Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.
"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.
I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."
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Agreed. I came to realize the need for a total re-understanding of The Quran while I was still a traditional Muslim myself. And it is this bravery and taking up of the mantle that Brother Badar and Dr. Qamar have gained my respect and admiration.
Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.
"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.
I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."
Brother when I see hundreds and hundreds of fellow men and women dying every day; due this painful cancer of religion build arround Quran. I do not even feel like saying thank you.
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Female companion is not the translation of Nisa. It is the meaning of word Zujaha.
Regards,
sorry i read it in hurry and assumed that since whenever 'woman' doesnt fit in in the translation, the translator usually translate nisa with wives or females.
Peace
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I have been reading this interesting thread off and on. Dammon has done a wonderful job of proving the point that word "Nisa? linguistically does not and could not mean "Woman". However, nay sayers keep bringing other verses from same wrong translation that is cause of the entire problem. This is the point that is being high lighted. It is not a mater of one concept or one word wrong. It is all of it. It needs fresh start needs to be retranslated, letter by letter and word by word. Until this is done there is no understanding.
Here is a translation of first verse of An Nisa. If needed would be happy to give word by word break down.
Regards,
41
O you sleepy inattentive, the state of commotion is what you all need to guard and protect against. Your Rabb (sustainer, maintainer, foster and accomplisher), is he who created you for this common purpose. As well created your female companions for the same purpose, then spread from two of you, multitudes of mankind and you all forgot about this purpose. So you all guard against this forgetfulness. One who is not a deity for worship; is he, whom you are always seeking knowledge and information, about this purpose as well, your relationship. For sure, one who is not a deity for worship is always a preserver and guardian, over you.
Peace -- the above is illogical; which words are you translating to exactly what?
41... rijalan much wanisan
... indeed The God He is over you WatchfulYes, this is exactly what I have been saying as well in this thread. The nay sayers keep asking to explore this verse and that verse, what about the word here and what about there, etc. without realizing that EVERY WORD (including the word Nisaa) in those 50 or so verses also need to be reinterpreted. It's like they refuse to get it. But this is what preconceived notions and conceptual barriers will do. It impedes rational thinking and makes a person forfeit honesty.
Thus you admit you are clueless about every word and continue to post on the subject?
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No, I admit that you are clueless about the word Nisaa' which is why I continue to post on the subject.
If you are able to address the points I summarized in This Post then give it a go. If you come back without addressing them then it's just more loud barking with nothing behind it in which case I'll not waste my time.
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No, I admit that you are clueless about the word Nisaa' which is why I continue to post on the subject.
If you are able to address the points I summarized in This Post then give it a go. If you come back without addressing them then it's just more loud barking with nothing behind it in which case I'll not waste my time.
No you made no points!
Here I've addressed everything; now your turn to simply translate otherwise you are clueless!
41 O you al-nas/the humankind fear your Lord the One who created you from soul one (f) and created from it its spouse and dispersed from them two rijalan/men much wanisan/and women and fear The God the One who you ask with it and the wombs/blood relations indeed The God He is over you Watchful 42 and give the orphans their wealth and not exchange the bad with the good and not eat/consume their wealth to your wealth indeed it it is sin great 43 and if you fear that not do justice in the orphans so marry what aba (lawful or agree) to you from the women paired/twos and three and quadruplet/group of four so if you fear that not do justice so one (f) or what possess your right hands/trust that minimum that not you oppress 44 and give the women their handouts graciously so if they remit for you about a thing from it of soul/their own so eat/consume it satisfaction ease 45 and not give the foolish your wealth the one made The God for you standing/support and provide them in it and clothe them and speak to them a word appropriate 46 and test the orphans until when attained the marriage so if you perceive from them rational so deliver to them their wealth and not eat/consume it wastefully and hastily lest/that they grow up and from he is rich so should refrain and from he is in need for so let eat/consume in the fair manner so when you deliver to them their wealth so take witnesses on/over them and sufficient in The God Reckoner 47 lilrrijal/to the men a share from what left the parents and the close relatives and for the women a share from what left the parents and the close relatives from what small from it or large portion obligatory 48 and when comes the division those the relatives/near and the orphans and the needy so provide them from it and speak for them a word appropriate 49 and let fear the those who if they left from behind them offspring weak concerned on/over them so let them fear The God and let them speak a word right 410 indeed the those who ate wealth the orphans injustice surely ate in their bellies of a fire and they will be burned a blaze 411 directs you The God in your children lildhakari/to the male like share al-unthayayni/the two (f) so if they are (f/p) nisan/women above two (f) falahunna/so for them (f/p) third dual (2/3) what left and if kanat/she is (f) widatan/one (f) so for her the half...
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LOL...Just As I Thought!! laugh laugh
Instead of addressing and trying to refute the points that I made this is how you get out of doing so
No you made no points!
If/when you are ready to tackle those issues let me know. Until then........
peace
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Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.
"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.
I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."
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I'm going to post my points again for everyone to look over
*someone is being addressed and given instructions in 4/3. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.
*We go BACKWARDS to 4/1 to find out WHO that someone is. It is An-Naas and An-Naas is People!! This includes men AND women. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.
*By going back to 4/1 we know that it is NOT men alone who are being addressed in 4/3, but it is men AND women being addressed (and commanded) in 4/3. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.
*4/3 has a masculine verb (Taaba) that is performed by An-Nisaa. How do we know? Here's how
A). It cannot be performed by the 2nd Person Addressee. Taaba is a 3rd Person Verb and I have yet to hear an explanation as to HOW a 3rd Person Verb can be performed by the 2nd Person Addressee. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.
B). The traditional Musafeer and translations say this verb (Taaba) means what is good or what seems good to you all, but I think this is incorrect as this would give the 3rd person masculine verb Taaba a PASSIVE meaning which is wrong. Tayyib means good. So something that would be or seem good to the 2nd person addressee would be Tayyib. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.
C). Another word that is overlooked is the word Lakum which means To/For You all. Having ascertained that Taaba is in it's 3rd Person basic form, we see that it cannot be done by the addressee since Lakum is pointing to the 2nd Person Addressee. Taaba is 3rd person and Lakum is 2nd person. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.
D). In spite of what some people may wish to think or how vehemently they wish to reject it, Ma Taaba Lakum Min An-Nisaa IS constructed in the Ma...Min Clause/Construct. I have yet to come across an Arabic grammar book that says this is bogus or does not exist. Studying the links to the grammar books I have given and carefully studying the sentence in question in 4/3 would reveal this in my humble opinion. Is all of this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.
*To believe that the word Nisaa means women but DOES NOT have a singular form (even though the words WOMAN and WOMEN are two of the most COMMON EVERY DAY WORDS in EVERY LANGUAGE) would suggest that the species that this word is applied to were not always familiar to the 7th Century Arabs just like the Arctic Fox, the Arctic Hare and the Walrus. New words had to be made up and coined for these three Northern Climatic animals since the 7th Century Arabs were not always familiar with them and we see how the Singular and Plural of each word are using two different sets of roots. Since this anomaly supposedly exists for Woman (Imraa'a) and Women (Nisaa', this suggests to me that (just like the three aforementioned Arctic animals) that the 7th Century Arabs were not always aware of and familiar with Women and when they finally learned of the existence of women, they had to coin new terms for them in both their singular and plural form. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please explain how this so-called anomaly exists for a COMMON EVERYDAY word.
- Lastly, some questions were asked which were never answered. I'll repeat here a few of them. Since the defenders of the status quo cannot even answer just this one question, logically I cannot expect them to answer any of the rest of them. BUT...WHY must I marry a woman in order to financially help her? What road block exists that would prevent me for helping her financially if I do not marry her? Answer Please?
And if anyone here does wish to make an attempt at answering this question please keep this in mind The Monetary Contribution DOES NOT change at all. If I'm paying her rent or mortgage for her, groceries, utility bills, transportation, clothing, education and giving her spending money, the monetary output does not change if I marry her. So there's no change in the monetary contribution I am making if I marry her or not. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please explain why I cannot financially assist a woman unless I am married to her.
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Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.
"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.
I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."
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LOL...Just As I Thought!! laugh laugh
Instead of addressing and trying to refute the points that I made this is how you get out of doing so
If/when you are ready to tackle those issues let me know. Until then........
You've made no points; gave no translation, and your assumption is logically flawed...
41 O you al-nas/the humankind (includes all men and women)...
43 ... so marry what aba (lawful or agree) to you from the womenHere are all possibilities, telling...
- men to marry women
- men to marry men
- women to marry men
- women to marry women
Of course only the first is correct. Therefore you have no point! Now are you going to be a coward refuse to translate?
I've made it easy for you to simply paste in above text what you think nisaa means otherwise admit you are clueless.
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Well, I gave you a chance and you blew it. Congratulations. I now have to continue to ignore you and not take you seriously just like the other two amigos.
And you confirmed what I had already suspected. You Obviously don't possess sufficient grammar knowledge to refute them or else you would have made an attempt to do so. ;D ;D
As per 25/63 I will only say peace
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Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.
"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.
I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."