Why Iblis go to hell
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Salam all my sisters and brothers
I have read the topic 'do good and believe is enough' and this brings me to a topic still not clarified for me
WHAT WE MUST DO TO BECOME 'SERVANT OF GOD'. According to the verse that God has created human beings and the jinn only to serve him?First when becomes a Muslim a kafir to be punished in the hell'? The traditional Muslim will say if one remove one of all the points of the Aqida (made from scholars)
Second an atheist may be an unwilling Muslim His body will always be a Muslim, but his mind refuses to acknowledge God. This leads him to the (almost) same level as Iblis
Iblis was a 'believer '- he acknowledged God
Iblis had surrendered voluntarily God (before) = Muslim
BUT 1. Iblis disobeyed God AND 2. He swore, that he would seduce the Bani Adam until the end of time.Because of his disobedience, he was put outside the garden (like Adam and Eve) not the disobedience made him a Kafir.
What made him a Kafir? HIS OATH TO DO BAD FOR ALL HUMANS / TO HOLD THE PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE PATH OF GOD .God mentions things that we should avoid (amal min Shaytan, chamr) and forbids us certain things (pork)
Not following these commands and prohibitions not leaves us incredulously, i.e God does not punish us with the hell when we drink alcohol, would make zina, eat pork.
(as we can see there are many opinions about those special laws and prohibitions...)If we don't follow those commandments , we hurt in the end only ourselves, our life on this earth will become perhaps the hell (from disease, exploitation,) triggered by our misconduct = a natural consequence within the law of the universe- this the Sunnat Allah which we see also by Adam and Eve they get a punishment in their life.
Which brings us to hell are in fact bad deeds that we do to OTHERS - As to bring anybody far from the way of God
It also corrects the image of unfair, unjust God, who stubbornly insist on the observance of his commandments and punishes all, who does not following His commands. What is the worst for God, the bad deeds for others especially for weak people, animals etc.
Iblis is cursed with the hell for his oath against of the believers so as the rejectors and polytheists, because they upheld to make 'fassad' on earth. ( Injustice, Opression, Torture, Murder inclusive )
what is your thoughts?? Thank you and salams -
Salam all
did i write nonsense, that nobody answers me?? (
anyway, i stumbled over one Dua of Abraham "Please let us die as Muslims ..."
Implies that a Muslim must recognize/ackowledge ACTIVE Allah - that is, an atheist is not a Muslim, even if his body is a 'Muslim', because it follows the divine law.
But what was iIblis? He recognize very well Allah until what time he was a Muslim?? He became a kafir after his disobedience? or after his oath? And i note that Iblis was never in the garden with Adam and Eve- right? confused
Thank again for any thoughts ) -
I totally dont know how to begin but You did. confused
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mirjamnur,
Ibllis became shaytaan because he was proud before God and said, " I am above Adam for he was created of the messy, darksome clay while I am from the blaze of fire; so I did not obey him who You had commanded me to obey." At this point God said, "Then you are thrown away; there is no place here for those who boast." A kafir is one who is boastful. Iblis was the first of its kind to be daringly boastful before God, thus becoming shaytaan. Based on this the humans fall under two categories The major party belonging to shaytaan; and a small group of people belonging to God. They are humble before their people who are humble; and they bow with those who bow in humility.
"O Maryam, obey your God and fall to the Command bow with those who bow."
Thus a kafir will be proud and defy the command of God while a believer will show at most humility before those who are humble and thus obey the will of God.
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Salam
I totally dont know how to begin but You did. confused
i can feel it- you think now she is become crazy... ;D
i can't explain what i see, when i read all the verses about Iblis and the Angles and Adam and Eve etc. nopeagain i will try
Will Allah punish us with the hell for disobedience? or pride only ? i don't think so because
- No compulsion in religion
- Adam and Evas disobedience didn't led to be banished to Hell - it had a consequence (to leave the Garden of Eden to lose the innocence)
-Iblis disobedience led not to the fact that he was thrown to hell. It had a consequence. (To lose his high status, to become a low respected )
-Shaitan will end up in hell. Why? Because he is not just disobedient, but make
Willfully and maliciously BAD FOR OTHERS (active worker) - one atheist is not necessarily a kafir. Disobedience of Allahs laws (eating of pork, zina, lie , steal) has consequences (illness, moral decline, depression) but what it leads to end up in the fire are bad DEEDS.
-Iblis was a Muslim then a Kafir ( hide the truth)and then with his oath leads others astray (shaitan). what I mean the state Kafir is more passive then the status Shaitan (active) towards outside. - Which brings us to hell, that's what we do to others. What we do to ourselves (by being disobedient and not believe)
has consequences in our lives within the laws of the universe.
-For the deeds which we were doing compared to others, we are rewarded or punished after the universe no longer exists. outside the sunnatullah
-would Iblis have not sworn to mislead all people, he would have still got a chance, and the only consequence of his pride and disobedience would be the loss its high status (a logical consequence) - if we do not obey the commands of our Chefs, we are kicked out too .
i dont know if it;s more clear now?
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- Adam and Evas disobedience didn't led to be banished to Hell - it had a consequence (to leave the Garden of Eden to lose the innocence)
Salaam mirjamnur
i will only make some remarks
Iblis name appears only in the episode of adam creation.
we have no proof of existence of a chaytan called ibliss in the forbidden tree episode.
we have no trace of existence of a women called Evas in quran.Iblis cannot be an actor in the tree episode since he was already expulsed (38-77) from the heaven paradise (if tree episode happened in the heaven paradise).
There is no proof of existence of a man called Adam in heaven paradise (the heaven in the tree episode can be also on a kind of earth paradise.)we cannot think about this story without having in mind these verses
3867 Say "It is an awesome news."
3868 "From which you turn away."
3869 "I had no knowledge of the command up high, that they had quarreled."
3870 "It is only inspired to me that I am a clear warner."
3871 For your Lord said to the angels "I am creating a human being from clay."
3872 "So when I have evolved him, and blow of My Spirit in him, then you shall yield to him."we can deduce from therese verses that
there was a quarel in command up hight before creation of Human. If there is an original sin then it would be there.230 And your Lord said to the angels "I am placing a successor on the earth." They said "Will You place in it he who would make corruption in it, and spill blood; while we praise by Your glory, and exalt to You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
so Human was destinated for living on earth (and not in heaven) from the beginning.
But there is another question Angels knew before seeing it that humans will do bad things on earth. How did they knew that ?3372 We have offered the trust (Amana) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But man accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.
Amana (the contract) is same root as Iman and moo'min (believer ?). and even to yemen (the country).
The contract is obviously this
7172 And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.Whe know also that descent of Iblis are Jinns (18-50).
i let reader think about all these verses.
Peace
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Salam noshirk
thank you for your postIblis name appears only in the episode of adam creation.
we have no proof of existence of a chaytan called ibliss in the forbidden tree episode.
we have no trace of existence of a women called Evas in quran.i see this point- and one verse give me the impression, that Iblis is or was immortal and an angel
Surah Sad
It is revealed unto me only that I may be a plain warner. (70) When thy Lord said unto the angels Lo! I am about to create a mortal out of mire, (71) And when I have fashioned him and breathed into him of My Spirit, then fall down before him prostrate, (72) The angels fell down prostrate, every one, (73) Saving Iblis; he was scornful and became one of the disbelievers. (74) He said O Iblis! What hindereth thee from falling prostrate before that which I have created with both My hands? Art thou too proud or art thou of the high exalted? (75) He said I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire, whilst him Thou didst create of clay. (76) He said Go forth from hence, for lo! thou art outcast, (77) And lo! My curse is on thee till the Day of Judgment. (7 He said My Lord! Reprieve me till the Day when they are raised. (79) He said Lo! thou art of those reprieved (80)Iblis " My Lord!( he still a believer, he know Allah and accept Him) reprieve me till the Day when THEY are raised." He didn't say 'when WE are raised, implies that he is not part from the raised . yes?
i don't know why all means that schaitan = Iblis. Iblis was an angel and shaitan is a title.
we have no trace of existence of a women called Evas in quran.
yes right. But we have mentioned a spouse for Adam, not?Iblis cannot be an actor in the tree episode since he was already expulsed (38-77) from the heaven paradise (if tree episode happened in the heaven paradise).
There is no proof of existence of a man called Adam in heaven paradise (the heaven in the tree episode can be also on a kind of earth paradise.)Surah Al-Baqara
And when thy Lord said unto the angels Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said Surely I know that which ye know not. (30) And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful. (31) They said Be glorified! We have no knowledge saving that which Thou hast taught us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower, the Wise. (32) He said O Adam! Inform them of their names, and when he had informed them of their names, He said Did I not tell you that I know the secret of the heavens and the earth? And I know that which ye disclose and which ye hide. (33) And when We said unto the angels Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever. (34)And We said O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrong-doers. (35) But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time. (36) Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful. (37) We said Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grievefrom the Quranic point of view it seems that
- Iblis was in a heavenly abode
- Adam and his wife was in earthly garden
we can deduce from therese verses that
there was a quarel in command up hight before creation of Human. If there is an original sin then it would be there.i don't speak about a 'original' sin as the bible do. I speak only about a 'ordinary' sin from human (Adam and wife) to follow shaitans whisper and do not follow the order (teachings ) from Allah.
so Human was destinated for living on earth (and not in heaven) from the beginning.
But there is another question Angels knew before seeing it that humans will do bad things on earth. How did they knew that ?because Adam was not the first creation and the other creation did bad things on earth. ?
3372 We have offered the trust (Amana) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But man accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.
Amana (the contract) is same root as Iman and moo'min (believer ?). and even to yemen (the country).
The contract is obviously this
7172 And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.i don't know what you want tell me. because i say, the reason for the hell will be that we are 1. not following Allahs order
2. cause bloodshed on earth, corruption?
And yes, i don't understand the relationsship from the amana to the heavens and mountains- nopehe know also that descent of Iblis are Jinns (18-50).
And (remember) when We said unto the angels Fall prostrate before Adam, and they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He was of the jinn, so he rebelled against his Lord's command. Will ye choose him and his seed for your protecting friends instead of Me, when they are an enemy unto you? Calamitous is the exchange for evil-doers. (50) I made them not to witness the creation of the heavens and the earth, nor their own creation; nor choose I misleaders for (My) helpers.
- all angels prostrate SAVE Iblis= he is an angel and BECAME a jinn BECAUSE he rebelled against his Lord's command. hes became hidden. So ALL the jinns are his seed??
and more if we rebelled against our Lord;s command we will also become 'jinns'?? (inside from 'fire'=aggressive, angry, short-tempered, proud unachgiebig, stubborn, greedy, evil)
and if we are obedient we rest as Adam from 'dust'??( =grounded, calm, standing on our two feet, not quick-tempered, realistic)
So the status jinn has nothing to do with 'spirits', but more from our 'energy' inside? (i.e. EVIL INSIDE?
more i read and reflect more i'm confused and sorry the topic start to be more as one
thank you and anybody see what i can't see clear please write!!!!! )) peace)
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well well well all the talk about satan like if he is a person with any power brickwall
Honestly guys I dont even think he exsist )
El Shaytan is probably a section of every human being which we are told not to follow....... that section is doomed to misery and going near it or/and following it also lead to misery.....
The only time you can probably personalize el-shaytaan is when you talk about sociopaths and psychopaths..... but their whole lives are also a big misery and whoever goes near them also take misery on himself.... thus El-Shaytaan is doomed to hell, will always be and there is no way out.
Depressing
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salam mirjamnur
you have to be aware that satan is a word that don't exists in Quran.
Quran use word Iblis in adam creation episode and chaytan elsewere.
Traductors use word satan both for Ibliss and chaytan. But there is no reason to consider that it is the same entity.Sunnah-hero is right. Shaytan is a section of human being that is in permanant war against the other section wich is rouh from god.
Ibliss is the ancestor of all Jinns and "he died" before the tree episode of Adam.
Community of jinns is just community of human imaginations and the shaytan in tree episode is just the part of jinn/imagination, who descent from Ibliss, that made him disobey to god and that is associated with human body of adam.dear mirjamnur, since you understand french, i recommand you the series ibadat el chouyouks on nawaat.org. I recommand you episode 2 and 6.
the matter is very complicated.
Peace -
Salam Sunna- hero
well well well all the talk about satan like if he is a person with any power brickwall
Honestly guys I dont even think he exsist
El Shaytan is probably a section of every human being which we are told not to follow....... that section is doomed to misery and going near it or/and following it also lead to misery.....
The only time you can probably personalize el-shaytaan is when you talk about sociopaths and psychopaths..... but their whole lives are also a big misery and whoever goes near them also take misery on himself.... thus El-Shaytaan is doomed to hell, will always be and there is no way out.
Depressing
take care of your head ;D can you tell my from where you get, that i take SATAN as A PERSON with POWER?? confused confused
in fact i don't believe SATAN existe- i believe schaitan is a title and humans can be 'schaitan' etc .
i think my english wasn't very good--- -[
Anyway thanks for your answer and peacesalam mirjamnur
you have to be aware that satan is a word that don't exists in Quran. where i speaked about satan??
Quran use word Iblis in adam creation episode and chaytan elsewere. i mentioned 'schaitan'=chaytan- sorry i mean the same.
Traductors use word satan both for Ibliss and chaytan. But there is no reason to consider that it is the same entity. i came to this conclusion also- thanksSunnah-hero is right. Shaytan is a section of human being that is in permanant war against the other section wich is rouh from god.
i'm agree!Ibliss is the ancestor of all Jinns and "he died" before the tree episode of Adam. from where you get this?
Community of jinns is just community of human imaginations and the shaytan in tree episode is just the part of jinn/imagination, who descent from Ibliss, that made him disobey to god and that is associated with human body of adam. please you can explain? temptdear mirjamnur, since you understand french, i recommand you the series ibadat el chouyouks on nawaat.org. I recommand you episode 2 and 6.Thank you for the link- i will go there and have a deeper look at it
the matter is very complicated. oh yes yeah
Peacepeace