:: Gh-Fa-Ra does not mean forgive/forgiveness ::
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Salaam,
I was wondering why Adam and his spouse not forgiven when they ask for as in 723.
723
723 They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."Other translations of 723.
Even after asking , they have been sent out of alJannat].
724
724 said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."Other translations of 724.
Does this mean, Allah did not forgive them? If so, then what is the purpose of 23118 when Allah is not going to forgive us?
23118
23118 And say, "My Lord, forgive and have mercy, and You are the best of the merciful."Other translations of 23118.
This clearly shows that Gh-Fa-Ra does not means "forgive". But it means "punish in this life and keep account clean", so that nothing wrong/bad will be left in account/records on Day of Judgement. So, that we can stand before Allah without shame or by carrying our sins.
This is the reason Adam and his spouse said
723 ...
723 ...and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers.Hence, there is no forgiveness but punishment is there either in this life or in Day of Judgement. So, isn't it better to avoid sins or evil, and if anything bad happens, is it not good to ask Allah for reward here in this life! This is what we are asked to say in 23118 .
Now, we can understand how a single sin/evil/bad deed could be dangerous and make us among losers. Same thing happens with Nooh as mentioned in 1145-47. It was just a question asked by Nooh, but then he used the same words as Adam. You can also refer 2187.
A point to noted in all the aayaat mentioned above is Ra-Ha-Ma along with Gh-Fa-Ra, which means mercy. If Gh-Fa-Ra means forgive then why Ra-Ha-Ma is mentioned after Gh-Fa-Ra in all aayaat mentioned above? When we ask our Lord for reward/punishment in this life, surely we are needed to ask for His mercy. We are taught the same way in 23118.
There is a condition for Gh-Fa-Ra also, everyone is not going to get this opportunity to clean their account in this life itself. The conditions are mentioned in 2082.
2082
2082 But indeed, I am the Perpetual Forgiver of whoever repents and believes and does righteousness and then continues in guidance.Other translations of 2082.
The conditions for Gh-Fa-Ra mentioned in 2082 are
- Repentance AND
- Believe AND
- Does righteousness AND
- Continues in guidance
This will help us entering alJannat as per 2214.
2214
2214 Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while such has not yet come to you as came to those who passed on before you? They were touched by poverty and hardship and were shaken until messenger and those who believed with him said,"When is the help of Allah ?" Unquestionably, the help of Allah is near.Other translations of 2214.
If not, then what will be the reason of giving those poverty, hardship and being shaken? But these are the reward for our own deeds and once our account gets clean with no bad/evil left, then we will enter alJannat, inshaAllah. This is because Allah never give to anyone.
4147
4147 What would Allah do with your punishment if you are grateful and believe? And ever is Allah Appreciative and Knowing.Other translations of 4147.
Finally, Allah is not responsible for any bad/evil comes to us, but it is from our own hands. Whatever evil we have done till date, everything is accountable with Allah, even if it is means "the weight of a mustard seed" . May Allah have mercy on all of us.
Warning This is my personal understand about Gh-Fa-Ra, please study all the aayaat mentioned and other related aayaat before you accept.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan.
The following -GHA-FA-RA- comes after the person enters Jannah, How does it fit into your explanation?
Peace
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Peace mmkhan.
The following -GHA-FA-RA- comes after the person enters Jannah, How does it fit into your explanation?
Peace
Peace Good Logic,
I think you are pointing at 3626-27 not 3826-27. It fits very clearly brother, because the word used is past tense, so, it can be translated as
3626
3626 It was said, "Enter alJannat." He said, "I wish my people could know3627
3627 Of how my Lord has cleaned my account for me and placed me among the honored."Other translations 3626, 3627.
Hope this may help inshaAllah.
May Allah bless you and increase our knowledge and guide us to His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan.
First , yes it is 3626-27.
Second , what is the difference between - cleaned my account- and forgave me?
Or am I mistaken that you think -GHA-FA-RA- does not mean forgiven?
Peace.
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Salam mmkhan and goodlogic
thank you for your interesting posts
what is forgiveness?? Forgiveness implies NO punishment. The sins are washed away without i am suffering .
If Allah washes my sins away, (interpretation from mmkhan), than he punish me (with hardship or descending from high status) to clean me from my sin, that i can go in Janna.
hmm. hmm i like the interpretation and i don't like it. Why?I think that God does not punish us for our sins, but that we are subjected to the SunnatAllah (the divine Law in the universe) . that means that every thought and every action has a certain effect on us and will come back to us . We will become exactly what we send out.
However, when we reap nothing in this life, and we died in this state, so Allah will judge us ,after the Universe is expired (ie, time and space will be finished and Sunnatullah does not exist anymore).i don't like to see Allah as the PUNISHER IN THIS WORD. But for the justice HE MUST PUNISH in the afterlife- but not in this life.
but then, the forgive = the washing from our sins.with the difference that I look at what it happens on earth not as a punishment but as a logical consequence . The meaning is the same but the perspective changes.
not sure, if my thoughts are understandable.
Salam -
Peace mirjamnur.
I understand you and I agree with you.
This confirms it for me
2682 ? The one who hopefully will forgive my sins on the day of judgement.?
Peace.
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Salam,
Very interesting post, brother MM Khan, and in fact I am also intrigued by the possible meanings and implications. But I trust that we have to also look at two other words, namely with Radicals AA-f-w and T-w-b. So now we have
gh-f-r waighfir lana
AA-f-w waoAAfu AAanna
t-w-b watub AAalaynaI trust we used to recite (as ?zikr?) them like this ?WaoAAfu AAanna waighfir lana watub AAalayna.?
But what do they mean? To me, they literally mean ?And allow your forgiveness on us (WaoAAfu AAanna), and give your pardon to us (waighfir lana) and restore your grace upon us (watub AAalayna).? Or, ?Forgive us, pardon us and restore your grace upon us.?
And in my personal comprehension, here are the reasons
When we fail to act appropriately (immediately, accordingly, wholly, sincerely, respectfully, submissibly, etc.) according to what we have gathered as God?s guidance, two things at least, will immediately happen
a. We are held responsible/accountable, so there is a ?athab?/punishment.
b. God stops/ceases His ?rahmat?/grace/blessings.The time of us being held responsible/accountable is represented in the phrase ?yawmi alddeen?. So to me ?athab?/punishment is right here and right now in this world. And I trust we all are very familiar with what are the kinds of ?athab?/punishment. Or else, try to start learning here http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=E*b
As a 'nastaAAeen'/recourse/way out, we have to do three things
a. Ask God for forgiveness ? to consider the act unworthy of mention or remembrance
b. Ask God for pardon ? to nullify/abolish the punishment
c. Ask God to restore His ?rahmah?/grace/blessings upon us ? so that we may continue to enjoy God?s guidance, knowledge, recovery, bounty, etc.Does anybody here share this understanding?
And as always, this is merely my personal comprehension. As such, please do not take this to be the absolute truth without counsel. Ask God about the truth, please.
Cheers!
Mohammed Noh -
Salaam,
I was wondering why Adam and his spouse not forgiven when they ask for as in 723.
723
723 They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."Other translations of 723.
Even after asking , they have been sent out of alJannat].
724
724 said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."Other translations of 724.
Does this mean, Allah did not forgive them? If so, then what is the purpose of 23118 when Allah is not going to forgive us?
23118
23118 And say, "My Lord, forgive and have mercy, and You are the best of the merciful."Other translations of 23118.
This clearly shows that Gh-Fa-Ra does not means "forgive". But it means "punish in this life and keep account clean", so that nothing wrong/bad will be left in account/records on Day of Judgement. So, that we can stand before Allah without shame or by carrying our sins.
This is the reason Adam and his spouse said
723 ...
723 ...and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers.Hence, there is no forgiveness but punishment is there either in this life or in Day of Judgement. So, isn't it better to avoid sins or evil, and if anything bad happens, is it not good to ask Allah for reward here in this life! This is what we are asked to say in 23118 .
Now, we can understand how a single sin/evil/bad deed could be dangerous and make us among losers. Same thing happens with Nooh as mentioned in 1145-47. It was just a question asked by Nooh, but then he used the same words as Adam. You can also refer 2187.
A point to noted in all the aayaat mentioned above is Ra-Ha-Ma along with Gh-Fa-Ra, which means mercy. If Gh-Fa-Ra means forgive then why Ra-Ha-Ma is mentioned after Gh-Fa-Ra in all aayaat mentioned above? When we ask our Lord for reward/punishment in this life, surely we are needed to ask for His mercy. We are taught the same way in 23118.
There is a condition for Gh-Fa-Ra also, everyone is not going to get this opportunity to clean their account in this life itself. The conditions are mentioned in 2082.
2082
2082 But indeed, I am the Perpetual Forgiver of whoever repents and believes and does righteousness and then continues in guidance.Other translations of 2082.
The conditions for Gh-Fa-Ra mentioned in 2082 are
- Repentance AND
- Believe AND
- Does righteousness AND
- Continues in guidance
This will help us entering alJannat as per 2214.
2214
2214 Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while such has not yet come to you as came to those who passed on before you? They were touched by poverty and hardship and were shaken until messenger and those who believed with him said,"When is the help of Allah ?" Unquestionably, the help of Allah is near.Other translations of 2214.
If not, then what will be the reason of giving those poverty, hardship and being shaken? But these are the reward for our own deeds and once our account gets clean with no bad/evil left, then we will enter alJannat, inshaAllah. This is because Allah never give to anyone.
4147
4147 What would Allah do with your punishment if you are grateful and believe? And ever is Allah Appreciative and Knowing.Other translations of 4147.
Finally, Allah is not responsible for any bad/evil comes to us, but it is from our own hands. Whatever evil we have done till date, everything is accountable with Allah, even if it is means "the weight of a mustard seed" . May Allah have mercy on all of us.
Warning This is my personal understand about Gh-Fa-Ra, please study all the aayaat mentioned and other related aayaat before you accept.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His path pr
mmKhanSo when the Quran says that many sins God overlooks does that mean it will remain in the account without rogiveness and the how can it be cleansed?
And how does repentance (Tawba) fits in all this.
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Peace mmkhan.
First , yes it is 3626-27.
Second , what is the difference between - cleaned my account- and forgave me?
Or am I mistaken that you think -GHA-FA-RA- does not mean forgiven?
Peace.
Peace brother,
Cleaning account includes punishment as per Gh-Fa-Ra. I don't find any word in alQuraan for forgiving. There must be some reason for not forgiving.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Salam mmkhan and goodlogic
thank you for your interesting posts
what is forgiveness?? Forgiveness implies NO punishment. The sins are washed away without i am suffering .
If Allah washes my sins away, (interpretation from mmkhan), than he punish me (with hardship or descending from high status) to clean me from my sin, that i can go in Janna.
hmm. hmm i like the interpretation and i don't like it. Why?Salaam mirjamnur,
Thank you for clarifying it for good logic.
I think that God does not punish us for our sins, but that we are subjected to the SunnatAllah (the divine Law in the universe) . that means that every thought and every action has a certain effect on us and will come back to us . We will become exactly what we send out.
However, when we reap nothing in this life, and we died in this state, so Allah will judge us ,after the Universe is expired (ie, time and space will be finished and Sunnatullah does not exist anymore).True! This is what I think. Allah punishes or we get punishment as per sunnatAllah is same. I always believe that sunnatAllah is a huge computer program and we all are inside that program. And everything happens as per the computer program. If we do good, then we get back good, and if we do bad then we get back bad.. That is how I understand.
Please take a look at 7149.
i don't like to see Allah as the PUNISHER IN THIS WORD. But for the justice HE MUST PUNISH in the afterlife- but not in this life.
but then, the forgive = the washing from our sins.I believe that when Allah punishes us in this world, is a big favor for us because punishment of yawm-alQayamat is not good compare to this life's punishment as per 2565.
If Gh-Fa-Ra means forgive, then why Adam was not forgiven and remain in alJannat when he asked for Gh-Fa-Ra?
with the difference that I look at what it happens on earth not as a punishment but as a logical consequence . The meaning is the same but the perspective changes.
not sure, if my thoughts are understandable.
SalamI agree... it can be called logical consequences instead. Thanks!
3036
3036 And when We let the people taste mercy, they rejoice therein, but if evil afflicts them for what their hands have put forth, immediately they despair.Other translations of 3036. Please also check 462, 2847 and 4248.
Hope this may help inshaAllah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mirjamnur.
I understand you and I agree with you.
This confirms it for me
2682 ? The one who hopefully will forgive my sins on the day of judgement.?
Peace.
Peace,
Khataa is different than Zamb.
Khataa = something bad/wrong/evil done without knowing it.
Zamb = something bad/wrong/evil done with knowledge of being it wrong.May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam 357, Mohammad Noh and Bigmo,
Thank you for your replies.
@ 357,
Please check reply#13 to brother Good Logic, I think you means the same, inshaAllah.
@ Mohammad Noh!
Is there any difference between forgive and pardon? hmmAnd if we take pardon or forgive as the meaning of waoAAfu AAanna, then how can we translate 2286?
2286 ... ...
After pardoning why ask for forgiveness and what is left to ask for mercy?
@ Bigmo,
So when the Quran says that many sins God overlooks does that mean it will remain in the account without rogiveness and the how can it be cleansed?
Can you please get me some aayaat on this, let me check and get back to you on them, inshaAllah.
Tawba simply means U turn. Turning back to Allah and good deeds is Tawba.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His path pr
mmKhan -
Salam MM Khan,
Here is my understanding of 2286
God does not assign a self beyond its capacity. For it is what it has gathered and gained. ?Our Lord, don?t hold it against us if we have forgotten or blundered. Our Lord, don?t lay before us a burden like that which You have laid upon those before us. Our Lord, don?t lay upon us a burden beyond our capacity, and forgive us, pardon us and have mercy on us. You are our protector, so please support us over the group of disbeliving people.?
This is just my personal understanding, now. You may disagree with this understanding. To me that is alright. I am still learning and therefore there are too many that I do not yet know.
Cheers!
Mohammed Noh -
This is just my personal understanding, now. You may disagree with this understanding. To me that is alright. I am still learning and therefore there are too many that I do not yet know.
Salaam brother Noh!
Its OK, we will agree to disagree handshake I hope that we will reach same point through different ways, inshaAllah.
May Allah bless you and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace everyone )
I must look for the verse, as I'm not sure which verse it is, maybe you do... Unless I'm mistaken, there is a verse in the Qur'an which is translated as a command for us to forgive those who wrong us. How does your understanding fit in this verse?
Also, I agree, regarding 2286, what is traditionally translated as "forgive" and "pardon", when we look at a dictionary, the two words basically mean the same thing, and are even synonyms.
Forgive To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
Synonyms pardon - remit - excuse - condone - absolvePardon (Noun) The action of forgiving or being forgiven for an error or offense. (Verb) Forgive or excuse (a person, error, or offense).
Synonyms
noun. forgiveness - remission - amnesty - condonation
verb. forgive - excuse - remit - condone - absolveSo I can see where you are coming from with this also with 723-24.
Peace )
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Salam,
Very interesting post, brother MM Khan, and in fact I am also intrigued by the possible meanings and implications. But I trust that we have to also look at two other words, namely with Radicals AA-f-w and T-w-b. So now we have
gh-f-r waighfir lana
AA-f-w waoAAfu AAanna
t-w-b watub AAalaynaI trust we used to recite (as ?zikr?) them like this ?WaoAAfu AAanna waighfir lana watub AAalayna.?
But what do they mean? To me, they literally mean ?And allow your forgiveness on us (WaoAAfu AAanna), and give your pardon to us (waighfir lana) and restore your grace upon us (watub AAalayna).? Or, ?Forgive us, pardon us and restore your grace upon us.?
And in my personal comprehension, here are the reasons
When we fail to act appropriately (immediately, accordingly, wholly, sincerely, respectfully, submissibly, etc.) according to what we have gathered as God?s guidance, two things at least, will immediately happen
a. We are held responsible/accountable, so there is a ?athab?/punishment.
b. God stops/ceases His ?rahmat?/grace/blessings.The time of us being held responsible/accountable is represented in the phrase ?yawmi alddeen?. So to me ?athab?/punishment is right here and right now in this world. And I trust we all are very familiar with what are the kinds of ?athab?/punishment. Or else, try to start learning here http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=E*b
As a 'nastaAAeen'/recourse/way out, we have to do three things
a. Ask God for forgiveness ? to consider the act unworthy of mention or remembrance
b. Ask God for pardon ? to nullify/abolish the punishment
c. Ask God to restore His ?rahmah?/grace/blessings upon us ? so that we may continue to enjoy God?s guidance, knowledge, recovery, bounty, etc.Does anybody here share this understanding?
And as always, this is merely my personal comprehension. As such, please do not take this to be the absolute truth without counsel. Ask God about the truth, please.
Cheers!
Mohammed NohSalam all,
It seems that I have to correct myself regarding this post. But before that, please accept my apology for making the mistakes.
So now, lets look at the dictionery entries (main entry by Hans Wehr, whilst the entries by Lane was crosschecked with Wakas's Studyquran @http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm)
AA-f-w to be or become effaced, oblitersted, wiped out, eliminated; to efface, obliterate, wipe out, eliminate (sth.); to forgive (s.o.); to excuse, free, relieve, exempt (s.o. from sth.); to desist, abstain, refrain (from) ||| to forgive, pardon; to abound; to pass over, forgo; to grow, multiply; to obliterate all traces; to remit; to give more than what is due; to relinquish right or remit in whole or in part.
gh-f-r to forgive (s.o. sth.), grant pardon (to s.o. for sth.), remit (sth.) ||| to protect; to cover over, hide, shield, helmet; to forgive, pardon; to ask for protection or forgiveness.
Even a cursory reading of the above entries (please double check against your copy of Hans Wehr, Lane and even perhaps Roohi Balbaki's Almawrid just to be sure) will alert us on some astonishing similarities in the meanings of the two words.
But are the two words of the same meaning? Some of us hold a view that the two words have similar meanings. But as I have posted before (please look at the quoted post), the two words may have quite a similar meaning but they each has very different implications - one is forgive, while the other is pardon.
Some have asked the difference between forgive and pardon. Entries for both words at thesaurus.com are almost similar, in fact much more similar than the dictionery entries provided above.
In my quoted post above, I wrote the following
I trust we used to recite (as ?zikr?) them like this ?WaoAAfu AAanna waighfir lana watub AAalayna.?
But what do they mean? To me, they literally mean ?And allow your forgiveness on us (WaoAAfu AAanna), and give your pardon to us (waighfir lana) and restore your grace upon us (watub AAalayna).? Or, ?Forgive us, pardon us and restore your grace upon us.?
I have to correct this. The phrase should instead be read as follows
?And give your pardon to us (WaoAAfu AAanna), and allow your forgiveness on us (waighfir lana) and restore your grace upon us (watub AAalayna).? Or, ?Pardon us, forgive us and restore your grace upon us.?
AA-f-w = to pardon (to obliterate/exempt the punishment)
gh-f-r = to forgive (to forget the mistake/wrongdoing)To study the word usage in the Qur-an, please click here (http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Efw) for AA-e-w and here (http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=gfr) for gh-f-r.
Anyone could disagree with this as I will never wrong anyone with whatever opinions or understandings they have. The main objective of this forum is to share and discuss in civility, which means that everyone has a right to express their opinions or understandings respectfully.
So again, apologies for the mistakes. May God guide us all correctly.
Mohammed Noh
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Peace,
how does your understanding fit into how we are supposed to "forgive" others?
2263 Kind words and forgiveness are far
better than charity that is followed by
harm. God is Rich, Compassionate.Also, why doesn't God punish in this life and keep account clean when we commit idolatry? 4116
God does not punish in this life and keep account clean to have partners set up with Him, but He punishes in this life and keeps account clean other than that for whom He pleases.
Why not punish for such a severe sin? Are we going to be punished for it on the Day of Judgment then? So there is no hope? Or maybe that is where 1971 comes in? Will we be purified by entering the hellfire? Or maybe the verse is only referring to those who are "worst opposition to the Gracious." (1969)
5118 I think is during the Day of Judgment, right?
833 But God was not to punish them while you are with them, nor will God punish them while they continue to seek forgiveness.
Or...
833 But God was not to punish (liyuadhibahum) them while you are with them, nor will God punish them in this life and keep their account clean while they continue to seek punishment in this life and a clean account."
4237 Those who avoid gross sins and lewdness, and when they are angered, they forgive (yaghfirna).
I am not exactly sure how I started thinking of this topic again. But now I realize that I may be lying about God if I say He is the forgiver of sins. But is it lying? If God punishes us in this world and purifies us that can be considered overlooking and forgiving our sins, right? Then on the Day of Judgment, those things would not be mentioned? So it is overlooking, or forgiving, or pardoning? However, the verse I posted last (4237), I don't understand how WE are supposed to do that??