Do we need books to believe in God?

good_logic

Peace Bahman, All.

Does it really matter? The fact remains we have a" proven" scripture now, whether we need one or we do not! Yes ,there is proof that it is the word of God.( For me anyway and others...)

Those who do not accept the " proof" that the Qoran is authored by GOD

5357 The inevitable is imminent.? ( Resurrection and Judgement?, Who do you answer to?)

5358 None beside GOD can relieve it.?

5359Are you questioning this matter??

5360 Are you laughing instead of crying??

5361Are you insisting on your ways.?

( Here is a message from your creator, Yes you this computer/technology Generation!)

541 The hour (Resurrection and judgement!) has come close, and the Moon has split.?( 1969, Man landed on the Moon and brought Moon rocks to be analysed!)

542 Then they saw a miracle, but they turned away and said? Old magic.? ? ( 1974, The discovery of- Code 19- with the aid of computers, proof that the last message from GOD ? Koran? could not have been authored by Man!)

543 They disbelieved, followed their opinions and adhered to their old traditions.?

( GOD sent this last message more than 1400 years ago!)

546 Ignore them; The day will come when the caller will announce a terrible disaster.?

548 As they respond to the caller, the disbelievers will say? This is a difficult day.? ?

5417 We have made this Koran (Last message!) easy to learn; Does any of you wish to learn??

( Simple criteria, Submit to your creator and see for yourself? Do not be like past generations!!!)

5442 They ( Past generations) rejected all Our signs, ( and miracles!) consequently, We requited them as an Almighty, Omnipotent should.? ( Read their stories, Noah, Pharaoh, etc?.)

5443 Are your disbelievers ( You, this generation!) better than those disbelievers? Have you been absolved by the scripture?? ( Are you exempt?)

5444 Perhaps they think( You this generation!)? We will be the winners!? ( Humans and Arrogance!)

5445 All of them ( Disbelievers of all generations!) will be defeated; They will turn around and ( try to ) flee.? ( Only there is nowhere to escape to! )

5446 The hour is awaiting them ( Judgement day!!!) and the hour is far worse and more painful.?

5449 Everything We created is precisely measured.?

5450 Our commands are done within the blink of an eye.?

5451 We annihilated your counterparts. ( From the old generations) Does any of you wish to learn??

5452 Everything they did is recorded in scrolls.? ( Accurate records!)

5453 Everything ,small or large, is written down.? ( Remember, GOD is forgiver, Most Merciful if you submit!)

5677 to 5687

? This is an honourable book.? (Message)? A protected book.? ( By ..proof!)

? None can grasp it except the Sincere!? ( Simple criteria of submission, no other Motives!)

? Are you disregarding this narration??

? Do you make it your business that you do not believe??

? When the time comes and ?it? ( Your last breath as you are dying!) reaches your throat.?

? You will then look around.?

? We are closer to it than you are, but you do not see.? ( The Angel of death!)

? If it is true that you do not owe any accounting.? ( That you are not returning to your creator for judgement!)

? Why do you not restore ( your life!) if you are truthful!?

Yes it does not matter a jot!!! Because

5722 Anything that happens on earth or to you, has already been recorded, even before the creation; This is easy for GOD to do.? ( GOD knows the past, present and the future!)

? This is the absolute truth.?

? You shall glorify the name of your Lord, the Great.?

Peace.

easternqibla

... to make us stand firmly by Him during our testing times, to protect and correct us from the path of error and to Guide us in the Straight Path, the Luminous Book is absolutely essential. ...

In actual fact, I must agree with the others here that no book is essential

It were indeed meet for us not at all to require the aid of the written Word, but to exhibit a life so pure, that the grace of the Spirit should be instead of books to our souls, and that as these are inscribed with ink, even so should our hearts be with the Spirit. But, since we have utterly put away from us this grace, come, let us at any rate embrace the second best course.

St John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople in the 4th century AD
http//www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.iv.html

Our 'need' for books from God is not part of our nature, but part of our lack of repentance and authentic love for our neighbour. That is why we 'need' books, "the second best course" ?

Richard

GODsubmitter

Our 'need' for books from God is not part of our nature, but part of our lack of repentance and authentic love for our neighbour. That is why we 'need' books, "the second best course" ?

Richard

I agree with this, furthermore, I think we are not progressing in science, but going every more away from God with time.

Jafar

The entire notion that
WE NEED THE BOOK FOR SALVATION OR GUIDANCE
and
WITHOUT THE BOOK, YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED OR BE GUIDED

Was invented / started / propagandized / came from the ancient Egyptians.
When their 'priest' authored and tried to to sell / make money from their "Book Of The Dead".

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2-0lfJQGGs

This notion then spread by the Israelites (whom for few centuries lived among the Egyptians) and become one of the basic notion of the so-called "Judeo-Christianity" culture. Which then spread to the surrounding area of Mediterranean sea when Christianism become the 'official religion' of Roman Empire.

The evidence for the falseness of the above notion is;
There are many guided and wise people who lived a good life without ever reading any books.
Example

Noah, Enoch and other good people who lived before any lettering / alphabet system ever invented.
Muhammad who supposedly did not have the chance to read any books within the bible bundle yet turn out to wrote a book of his own.
Any good and solemn people during our times which lives in the remote area and doesn't have any knowledge of 'lettering system'.
and many more...

Salam / Peace

drfazl

I don't really tremble at the thought of God.

I "tremble" if you want to call it that is standing account to the life that I have lived in front of God.

You tremble in front of God because
God is the One who would surely punish you if you do not correct before you begin to suffer. The signs of it are already very near as worry and fear - The Ahad is Watcher over all things! So you are trembling before the Only One, A.

You tremble in front of God because
God is the Only Judge and Ruler over the consequences of your actions. He only has the intellect and astuteness to decide upon your reward and punishment - The Astute, Lathif - L
Yet most of the times we do not fear or tremble because God is so Gentle and Kind, we take Him for granted, a serious mistake and an act of ingratitude. So we have to fear while He is still Kind And GentleHe. He is the Lathif - L

You tremble in front of God because
You believe in the consequences of your thoughts and actions. God is the One who warns you with a sense of worry and fear much before the consequences reach you manifestly for your evil thoughts and deeds. Now you begin to submit in your prayer with or without your knowledge until your worry and fear abate. God is so gentle in teaching you to lead a beautiful life on this earth through worry to submission to peace. Through such a combination of all the three a foundation of belief is made in the depth of your heart. Thus the belief is so submerged in the heart that we are never aware of the constant prayer going on subconsciously. God gives you the belief for He is Merciful. He is the One who teaches you what belief is, all through your life. He is The Trustworthy. Al Mumin - M.

2577
Say My God would not care for you were it not for your prayer; but you have indeed rejected the truth, so that which shall cleave shall come.

You tremble in front of God because
You fear His Names A L M that cannot be taken for granted but fear at the mention of it, willingly or unwillingly.

All this and more, Only The Book Al Quran shall alone teach you. Unless God is pleased with you, you cannot touch the Book.. Until such time Allah guides you to the Book you can never take guidance from the Book

Salam

drfazl

In actual fact, I must agree with the others here that no book is essential

Richard, this is a blunt refusal and outright rejection of the Book without reasoning. A snub to the Book.

Our 'need' for books from God is not part of our nature, but part of our lack of repentance and authentic love for our neighbour. That is why we 'need' books, "the second best course" ?

Richard, you rightly accept we 'need books' for the secondary best, in the deviant course ... Tell now what is The Book essential for your Primarily unerring course of life which will save you from your primary error and then following it up with repentance; and primarily love your neighbour cheatinglly and then following it up with authentic love?

Peace

Jafar

The discussion can be expand further towards

DO WE NEED TO BELIEVE IN GOD?

I myself do not see any need for it..

The questions itself can be absurd without common understanding on

WHAT IS "GOD"?

Now....

The western world (middle east included) basically inherits many 'thought process', 'conception' basically from 2 civilizations

Ancient Egyptians
Ancient Greeks

Where "GOD" is being constantly 'personified'...

GOD is a "HE" and not an "IT"...

Thus
GOD is somewhere (e.g. in heaven) and not everywhere
GOD talks, wrote books
GOD descended and ascended.
GOD can be angry, happy, sad
There are many GODs just like there are many Humans..
The entire universe is being viewed to be 'governed' by an 'organization of GOD or GODs' or "Kingdom of GOD".
In similar manner just like a country is being governed by a "King and his subjects"..
And the King (GOD) can be persuaded by human through praying or rituals..
The Ancient Egyptians even goes further to base their belief that "With Proper Ritual" human can 'control/drive' GOD.

While in the eastern world, GOD is not being personified at all...
Thus there's no need to even put forward a question of whether we should believe in God or Not.

Sidharta is among the first who are 'brave' enough to state

"Believe in God is irrelevant, it's your deed that matter the most"

thus he's focusing more on

"the correct attitude / perception of things (arabicdien)"

which then

"shall drive your deed / action (dharma)"

By such, there's no need even try to explain "What Is GOD" thus "Believe in the existence of GOD" become irrelevant.

Salam / Peace

drfazl

Peace,
So if your refer to Quran then you should know these verses good, have you tried to do your own study separate from what you have been taught since childhood, certainly if you were born in other belief environment you were defending those and their book too, today problame world wide is that majority are following their parents belief or coming out of ditch fall into well like those that are tired from their religion and wrongly they think today Islam is something in Quran when is not and they find it soon due to this screen.

Do you see whatever you read in my posts have any sources outside of the only Book?

I see that you are inventing your imaginations new thing for INITIALS ! Is that your own work or you have source, I would like to see how other 11 initial are interpreted ?

Do you see whatever you read in my posts have any sources outside of the only Book?

But before defending Quran you should solve this problame and tell us which Quran you read?

Do you see whatever you read in my posts have any sources outside of the only Book?

defending book without solid proof to persuade this era human is like being a well trained fire fighter with no water in the tank.

The solid proof is you have not brought out your original point of view as an answer here. A well trained fire-fighter can alone be the best teacher who can teach how to keep oneself safe from fire-accidents.

Peace

Bahman

Do you see whatever you read in my posts have any sources outside of the only Book?

Peace.
I apologize for wrong URL in this phrase
But before defending Quran you should solve this problame and tell us which Quran you read?
this is the problame and ould like to see your opinion .
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604939.msg319661#msg319661

and then you have missed this question
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601770.msg269279#msg269279

The solid proof is you have not brought out your original point of view as an answer here.

The original point is authored in Quran 262
Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in God, and
(2) believes in the Last Day, and
(3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
no matter which book you believe is words of God, I consider Quran as a mean for proof for existence of God. messages belongs to time and location., Iam not 1400 years Arab in desert with no water and tree, ritual prctices are for those days and may be yet applicable in same place which Quran was revealed.

Another question that many has avoided like this topic is Quibleh direction regardless that Mecca is a deception

A well trained fire-fighter can alone be the best teacher who can teach how to keep oneself safe from fire-accidents.

You are right but no matter how well know the job no water in tank he can not do anything.
This firs is gone for thousand years and had cay used such discussion change to argument and then chanting and then weapons to kill each other for thousand years. The books has not been revealed for human blood shed but for peace, lcve and care . The books wre for the time when we did not have such access to this screen and majority of people were not educated but now even 12 years old is participating our discussion here. Book do not need teacher no matter how many academic degree hanging on the wall. The only Teacher of the BOok is God alone and we should stop to be teacher of God;s word which has caused such anarchy around the world in all religion, human teacher knowingly or not adds his own understanding like you do with 3 initals and somebody else comes and tell what mean other one and then argument and finally doing same think that done for thousand years.
No book needs to believe in God and in this era human knows how to be righteous, believing in God do not need to discuss or announce it on this screen which is best teacher, all time available.
As soon you come to public and promote your book the first question is proof for its divinity if
Peace.

noshirk

Salaam Bahman

Do we need books to believe in God?

my response is no. However we need a book to understand what he want and why we are here.
i suspected many times that who don't believe in God or who believe in hearsays can understand nothing while reading Quran.

22 This is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.
23 Those who believe in the unseen, and hold the SALAT, and from Our provisions to them they spend.
24 And those who believe in what was sent down to you, and what was sent down before you, and regarding the Hereafter they are certain.

Peace

drfazl

Peace.
tell us which Quran you read?

That which Allah sends down upon me as revelation as you read the TEXT of the Book, that has no contradiction to the All Time Truth. If you find the following verse in your Quran also, then do not ask again which Quran I read.

73
Follow what has been revealed to you from your God and do not follow other than Him any guide. Little do you remember.

The original point is authored in Quran 262
Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in God, and
(2) believes in the Last Day, and
(3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

While you are following The Book 262 why you did you start this thread? You wanted to play games with others whom you consider are below par? Is this not then shaitan's business inducing vain arguments? Are you an ally of him? If I answer you anymore and let myself to be lured into such inducements and involve in this particular thread it is considered I am obeying shaitan and become of the associators.

6121
And indeed shaitan inspires their allies among men to dispute with you. And if you were to obey them, indeed, you would also be of the associators.

See if the above verse is in your Book and follow it for guidance. Do not keep saying, "We do not need the Book". Just see where you stand by starting this thread. You do need the Book. Read!

Bahman